<p>Hello. I am an HYP reject (or HYP waitlist, I should say--waitlisted at 7/10 of the schools I applied to) and I've been thinking about how this reduces some of my career opportunities. Specifically, like a large percentage of HYP undergrads (I believe the Princeton figure was around 40%) I have an interest in pursuing a career in finance such as investment banking or consulting. I recognize this goal is frowned upon by some as greedy, unidealistic, etc. but it seems to my admittedly cynical eyes that if the supposedly superior ivory tower graduates are flocking so willingly toward such careers, there is no reason why an SEC student such as myself should not have the same aspirations.</p>
<p>My question to the board is whether the relatively easy recruitment that HYP undergrads have access to is also available to graduate students pursuing appropriate degrees such as mathematics, economics, and the like. I ask because it seems feasible for me to work hard during my undergrad years at my current school toward admission in a Masters program at an HYP-level school and then leverage that degree toward my financial career aspirations. I recognize that just as admission to Ivy League undergraduate schools was no guarantee, graduate programs are equally, if not more, selective.</p>
<p>Thoughts? If anyone has web resources on this topic (graduate school recruitment into NYC finance careers) I would appreciate being pointed in that direction as well. The "future career" section of Princeton University's website, for example, seem mainly targeted at undergraduate students, and a search "careers for math graduate students" (and other formulations) usually leads to trade associations for Math PhDs and the like. Thanks for any information and assistance.</p>
<p>Appendix: What I am not interested in is how I should simply be happy with a lesser salary, find consolation in the fine arts, not be a class-climbing bourgeois, or the like. </p>
I think you are overestimating the size of this group. A large portion of HYP grads do enter these fields, but most of this group says they do not plan to pursue a career in these fields. For example, Harvard’s senior survey indicates that 16% of seniors said they were working in consulting, but fewer than 1% said they planned to be working in consulting in 10 years.</p>
<p>One does not need a HYP degree to enter investment banking and consulting, although having one helps. For example, among less experienced Goldman Sachs Investment Banking Analysts on LinkedIn the 5 colleges with that were most represented were:</p>
<p>Outside of their NY division, ivies were not well represented. For example, at their Utah division, the top colleges as follows.</p>
<ol>
<li> BYU</li>
<li> University of Utah</li>
<li> University of Utah – Eccles</li>
<li> Westminster College (located in Utah)</li>
<li> Arizona State</li>
</ol>
<p>Several forum posts have mentioned GS recruiting at their non-ivy college. </p>
<p>Utah wouldn’t be front office for GS, though. As an analogy, there’s a big difference between being an engineer at Google and being administrative staff at Google, for instance.</p>
<p>In any case, back to the original question: I assume that your current school isn’t a Wall Street target? What major/field are you in? 3-2 engineering is a way to get in to Columbia, for instance. Cornell takes a lot of transfers. And yes, you can go to grad school at a Wall Street target and get in that way (easier to network from NYC, I would say).</p>
<p>BTW, I assume that you’ve done your research and know that Street targets extend well beyond HYP, I hope? Also that when it comes to Street placement, Wharton outranks Yale and Princeton. Though you don’t seem to know that, so I’m a little suspecting about just how committed you are to a career on the Street.</p>
<p>Ok, this is something that I actually know something about. In the consulting industry, there are good opportunities for non-Ivy people in the Big 4 firms that formally focused entirely on accounting.</p>
<p>Big 4 love the state schools with good accounting programs (love state schools in general, as well as BYU). MBB consulting is more snobby (even more so than the Street, in general; quite a few schools are Street targets but don’t really place in to MBB; fewer are MBB targets but not Street targets).</p>
The job positions had the same title in the two locations. In any case, the point was that GS appears to recruit with a notable emphasis on location, rather than just prestigology. For example, the top 5 with the same investment banking analyst job title in GS’s NYC office were:</p>
<p>NYU dominates this list, while HYP does not appear within the top 5. HYP are more prestigious than NYU, but NYU has the advantage of being located less than 2 miles away from GS’s main NYC office, so I expect NYU has the advantage in GS recruitment and internships at the NYC office. State schools in NY also appear on the list, but not in the top 5.</p>
<p>This is some good data on the most recruited schools I was not aware of. </p>
<p>But what sort of graduate degrees are these investment bank hirees pursuing? Or are they mostly undergraduates?</p>
<p>My interest in this topic is whether I can increase my prospects for investment banking and related employment areas by pursuing a graduate degree at a “prestigious” school (or NYU). If this is not a viable path then I need to look at other opportunities more feasible for a state school undergrad.</p>
<p>Typically they are looking for MBA’s. People who pursue graduate degrees in the pure sciences tend not to be on the radar of these firms, and vice-versa, although there is no prohibition about it.</p>
<p>Make sure you have very high grades, and very high scores. The places you’re targeting are filled with those people, regardless of their alma maters. </p>
<p>Math and economics PhDs also have lots of opportunities to pursue careers in finance and consulting.</p>
<p>This is a silly conversation, though. You can’t just turn yourself into a Harvard math PhD because it will help you get a high-paying job. You have to really, really love math, and spend years doing nothing but math 24-7, and also happen to have God-given talent for it. And then, way down the road, you may come to a point where it makes sense to take a job in investment banking or management consulting. It’s not an easy path to riches.</p>
<p>Schreyer Honors College (Penn State) sends a few kids to GS every year. Considering that Schreyer only has about 400 kids graduating each year, that may mean a kid coming out of Schreyer has a higher probability of getting the job than a kid coming out of H.</p>
<p>Graduates of top law and medical schools also have a good shot at consulting. But I agree that that’s a terrible reason to go to those schools. The right graduate degree if you know you want to go to Wall Street is an MBA.</p>
<p>Add to the above–you’ll need an MBA from one of the top 10 MBA programs. Many of the Wall Street firms don’t recruit anywhere but from the top MBA programs.</p>
<p>@Bromfield2:
In MBA recruiting, top 10 (M7 + Stern, Tuck, and Haas) all the time. Usually, they reach down in to the top 20 as well.</p>
<p>OP: read Wall Street Oasis. All the Ivies&Stanford are targets, but, undergrad, also Stern@NYU, Haas@Cal, Ross@UMich, McDonough@Georgetown, Kelley@IU, McIntire@UVa, as well as Duke, UChicago, and Northwestern. Maybe also Kenan-Flagler@UNC, BC, USC, and Vandy.</p>
<p>@Data10: I’d like to see the titles and job descriptions. Note that any peon starting out is an analyst, regardless of role/division.</p>
<p>I am not very knowledgeable about MBA programs, but the minimal research I have done has left me with the impression that the most prestigious MBA programs are filled with older students who have job experience at the very firms we are discussing rather than undergraduates. Is this the wrong impression? Do prestigious Business Schools in fact accept undergraduates with no job experience straight out of their Bachelor’s Degree programs?</p>
<p>Financial institutions have lots of jobs, from brokers and financial advisors to IT to admin to investment bankers. Lots of jobs outside of NY, HKG, Singapore etc. are not I-banking jobs. The jobs in Utah may have the same title but they are unlikely to be i-banking jobs. </p>
<p>I have worked in I-banking and PE and learned a lot but ended up doing something related but different. The advice you have been is sensible. Figure out what you are good at and develop a career that fits you. As you make career choices, you can steer toward more lucrative rather than less, but play to your strengths. </p>
<p>None or little many without job experience will get good MBA admit. I have a relative who went from HYP engineering to global semiconductor firm and they paid for his exec mba from top 3 mba school and I was told he was the youngest ever in the program at 5 yrs out of school. </p>
<p>Someone steered you to Poets & Quants. There is a great series of columns by Sandy Kreisberg of HBAguru handicapping MBA odds for real candidates. It will give you some good insights. Fun to read.</p>
<p>These days most business schools expect two or more years of experience but some like Stanford and MIT can admit students right out of school. They would do so for exceptional kids who, they guess, will be sufficiently successful when they hit the Valley that they won’t apply to B-school. </p>
<p>My son was admitted to a top business school after 1 year of experience but had a stellar record at an elite school and co-founded a company in his senior year, raised seed capital before graduating, and had products and customers and was asked by his cofounders to be the CEO. At his admitted students weekend, he was the youngest person there, often by a number of years, which is not always a good thing. . </p>
<p>“Do prestigious Business Schools in fact accept undergraduates with no job experience straight out of their Bachelor’s Degree programs?”</p>
<p>Generally no, but that doesn’t mean your experience has to be at McKinsey/GS in order to get in. This is especially true for people with tech skills. There are MBA candidates in top 5 programs with experience in the military, engineering firms, mineral/energy business, etc.</p>
<p>It’s always been a preference of B schools to accept people with valuable work experience. I think this has become more the case in the last decade or two. Most graduate business schools provide rather detailed breakdowns of where their classes come from. It seems to me that the classes today are filled with older students compared to the classes from decades ago.</p>
<p>In answer to the implied question, I think it would be easier to get a good job out of undergraduate school than it would be to be directly admitted to a top graduate business program. </p>