<p>fastMEd: USABO is easy to get into? What makes you say that?</p>
<p>sorry-- I forgot to mention that at that school, GPA is calculated out of 8, so it'd actually be a .1 on a 4.0 scale, a little less. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>And USABO is sort of easy to get into... I've heard.</p>
<p>I don't see what's easy about being top 20 in the nation for anything. Could you elaborate about what you've heard?</p>
<p>yeah... well, it's not easy to be a USABO finalist, but a semifinalist isn't that hard, I think. It's like... the top 500 or so.</p>
<p><em>bump</em> .....</p>
I worked at a major New England university and my husband was on the admissions team at a prestigious neighbor. Colleges are not simply looking for any (hypothetical or real) “best” high school record. They are looking for students who will survive- and thrive in- their particular environment. Colleges expend great effort (and money) to both understand their own particular “personality” and determine the profile of candidates who are most likely to a) accept their admissions offer, b) graduate, and c) possibly bring some future glory to their name.
It’s not enough to hypothetically compare a valedictorian with virtually no non-academic pursuits against a non-valedictorian who’s involved in some attention-grabbing extra activities. Each girl- any candidate- must prove that she is the right choice for THAT college.
Admissions teams have a very narrow window in which to evaluate. It’s not good enough to have your kid “stand out” in some activities (academic or other,) no matter how impressive. The kid has to fit the profile. What’s the profile? Depends on the school. Remember, the profile reflects the kind of student the school believes will survive- and thrive in- their particular environment. All sorts of details count.</p>
PS: it’s common knowledge, today, that even giving a million bucks to your alma mater is no guarantee your kid will be accepted. (I have seen some pretty angry correspondence back from wealthy donors…)
<p>Lookingforward - That is an excellent post.</p>
<p>True. I wonder what each profile is for each college. :P</p>
<p>haha, so this will become the "try to figure ou the 'profile' for each school so we can manipulate our applications to look like a good fit" thread...</p>
<p>if the high school sends 30-40 people to ivy league schools, then why wouldn't the girl one get in? Yea, she doesn't participate in ECs blah blah, neither did a lot of nobel prize winners. I wonder how many nobel prize winners have won the science/math Olympiad medal?</p>
<p>how hypothetical is this post exactly...? </p>
<p>and i agree with the poster who said that there are institutional quotas and a specific "fit". neither girl would be a shoo-in. but both have okay to good chances.</p>
<p>lol, I had these two seniors in mind. They're from my school.</p>
<p>So it seems to me that this hypothetical situation may be at least partly based on fact ;) . . .</p>
<p>yeah, but I'm a sophmore. lol. I have a lot of senior friends though, and they're all .. into colleges now. Esp since dec. 15 is approaching fast.</p>
Rather than seeing this as “manipulation,” let’s look at this as a simple research project to ensure you end up at a college that’s a good fit for you.
Let’s take a slightly different hypothetical situation: two girls, both with superior grades from a highy rated high school. One is a college-level thinker, a deep and thorough researcher, able to edit her own work. She’s an enthusiastic learner, avid reader, brilliant writer and has a huge group of friends. No academic challenge throws her-- except in physics, which threw off her gpa. (So what? She’s not headed for a science career.) This kid belongs at a top, tough Ivy (or near-Ivy,) where her fellow students are in a broad variety of majors, highly motivated to learn, avidly participate in classroom discussions, talk about academic subjects while out having fun, etc. She will thrive at a campus with highly-rated graduate programs (and the influence that spills over to the undergraduate experience.) All this is what will empower this girl to go out into the world after graduation and make her mark.
The other girl is not driven to learn-- she is driven to do well in her classes. There is a big difference. She’s a highly rated musician and breathtaking singer. And, has a great sense of humor. She belongs at a smaller school where she can ace her classes and, on the side, play a little sports, play her violin, sing in the chorus or be in school plays and have plenty of time with her friends. This is what will empower her when she goes off into the real world.
So, you’re darned right, these girls need to look at the profiles of life/students at various colleges. These girls will not “manipulate” their applications to “look like” ideal candidates. They will emphasize the strong points each has which make her a “good fit” for that college- and the college a good fit for her.
This research is not hard. You don’t have to hire expensive consultants or go off buying 10 books that purport to advise you but really thrive on your fears. Start with the internet and the schools’ websites. See just what they brag about, read their descriptions of the academic philosophy and college life. Look at their calendars- is it all about pep rallies? Or, lectures by visiting scholars? Etc.
<p>sorry, I don't mean it at all as manipulation... =/
good post, lookingforward.</p>
<p>There seems to be some confusion in which papercrane and some other posters seem to think that applicants from the same high school are judged against each other for spaces at particular selective colleges especially the ivy leagues. This does not take place at all. The applicant is being judged in terms of how they stand out in the ENTIRE applicant pool. The regional admissions officer will read ALL the applications from the entire region which may not only make up the state of the two hypothetical appilcants you are talking about, but the regional admissions officer might be responsible for several states. The regional admission officer for your high school will read all the applications from that region and he or she will present them. The regional admission officer than presents the applicants at a regional committee and the other memebers of the committee vote. The committee members do not spend time going through a list of who applied from each high school. Rather, each applicant is looked at in terms of an individual and what they can bring to the school
You cannot hypothesize what the admission officers will want. The best applications are ones that stand out from the crowd and evidence passion and committment. The best applications are ones in which the various parts of the application fit together like pieces of a puzzle so that everything the applicant has done and accomplished is supported by the other parts of the application and the admission officers can evision a living breathing person who will come to that college or university and make a contribution.</p>
<p>in these times, EVERYBODY is passionate and devoted.</p>
<p>No problem. PaperCrane. Someone else implied manipulation.<br>
I think the original question posed in this thread is: which counts more, the stellar grades (evidence of academic focus and achievement) OR a slightly lesser academic record, but a full slate of ECs (in which gal #2 has achieved acclaim?) I think it's a fair question. Of course, there is no one magical way to get into a top college, but the question was clearly stated as a hypothetical.<br>
Ok. At the two stratospherically competitve colleges I am most familiar with, (and I know adm folks at both,) in between the first read and the final vote, teams of people read applications. This is to ensure some concensus, eliminate individual bias, etc. Kids are rejected for all sorts of reasons- usually an accumulation of signals that this isn't the right candidate. (Oops, I'm talking about "fit" again.) The readers agonize.
I basically agree with the concepts behind collegebound's last paragraph. But, the passion & committment, stand-out factor, etc should be focused in some way that represents your maturity, your industriousness, your ability to set and work toward tough goals, etc. Only the most brainiac can get away with a passion and committment for, say, Harry Potter. By the way, do take a look at the colleges' websites. Look for the part where they list the percentages of valedictorians (and on down) accepted. Look at the percentage of top SAT scorers accepted. You will be stunned at how many of these top performers are rejected. Because it IS about more than statistical performance.</p>