<p>As a mom of a UMich hopeful: thanks, oldfort. </p>
<p>When my oldest daughter was accepted ED to William and Mary, she had that fleeting moment of “I’d love to see if I got accepted to University of Chicago”, but Catholic guilt prevailed and she called and withdrew her application. I hope it made some current UofC kid very happy that day. :)</p>
<p>Annasdad, </p>
<p>Not saying that Ivies should accept just EAs/EDs (indeed, I agree that this would be very bad and skew their student body to the wealthy and hooked). Rather, I think they should make more yea or nay decisions at the EA stage so more kids are taken off the public school safety track and the rejected students could move on. This is particularly appropriate for the Ivy’s like Harvard that are single action EA, where a student has given up the opportunity to apply EA/ED at other schools. I think Harvard owes them more than a 2/3’s deferral rate, which is simply “punting” on the difficult decisions. Surely the experienced admission officers at Harvard know that 50-100 of the deferrals could very well be admits and admit more now and defer the rest and then reject the vast majority of deferrals who likely have little hope of admission there. If Harvard’s admissions folks cannot make better distinctions among candidates, then Harvard needs a new staff.</p>
<p>Personally, I am beginning to think that college should be done like medical residency matches are. This whole system is so messed up!</p>
<p>I agree vlines - it is a messed up system. Too much angst for kids (and parents.)</p>
<p>*Both UVA and UMich are coming out with their EA decisions after many of other schools’ notifications. I am sure those accepted students will notify UVA and UMich as soon as they got their notifications. *</p>
<p>My daughter notified both UVA and UMich as soon as she heard of her ED decision. Both schools have cancelled her applications. We could have waited until she sent in her deposit (Jan 13), and she was kind of curious to know if she would be accepted, but I told her that it wasn´t the right thing to do</p>
<p>Many don’t do that. Some just like seeing whether they were admitted and if a scholarship offer comes with it. Some are waiting to see FA packages which are sometimes delayed a bit or require the family to ask for an adjustment. Since ED acceptances come with a period of time to deposit/accept, I think many ED acceptees do not immediately notify their other schools.</p>
<p>Quote Someone pointed me to a high school that sent 46 apps to Stanford last year, one acceptance. I think these super-selective schools love the idea that kids are carpet bombing admissions offices with apps. Otherwise they could discourage much of this activity. Surely many of those 46 apps to Stanford were DOA. End quote</p>
<p>At our HS which is pretty much a feeder school for HYPSM et al, a few years ago Stanford started turning all applicants down after taking an average 3 - 6 for the decade before. No one understood why. After 2/3 years most of the top kids simply stopped applying to Stanford since they felt our students were no longer wanted by Stanford and they were more than likely to be admitted to an Ivy. Its why my D did not apply to S. If they want to apply to a California school they apply to CalTech which seems more than happy to accept them. Schools need to be careful, the knife cuts both ways and kids watch what happens to those in grades above them.</p>
<p>I myself encouraged Frazzled kids to hold onto all those admissions offers until the end, because that was when the big picture emerged. (They did not apply anywhere ED.)</p>
<p>Many of the top-ranked state schools ALSO have special scholarships that can be even more competitive than some or most (or in some cases, some would say all) the Ivies, the competition begins after the admissions offer arrives, and some top students will wait out the process to compete for these scholarships. Can you blame them??? It is not always just a case of money, since these offers often come with enhanced access to top faculty and such and can be attractive for these reasons to a student not admitted into any special programs at a more selective school. (Even Ivies and other elites have “invitation only” programs and courses.)</p>
<p>
What are those programs?
Again, what program would give some students enhanced access to top faculty and not to others? The only ones I have heard of are honors programs.</p>
<p>I get rather tired of people whining that kids are taking away places by applying widely and not letting an EA school know right away whether they are attending or not. Lots of growth happens between December and April, financial situations can change, and some colleges may not have been visited yet. The number of places doesn’t change. So unless a kid is hanging on to a place in September - it may impact a few waitlisted students, but otherwise it makes very little difference. (I don’t think my kids applied to too many schools - 7 and 8 respectively - but neither made the final decision until the final hours of April 30th as both agonized between two good choices.)</p>
<p>oldfort - </p>
<p>Check out Rabi scholars at Columbia, or the Integrated Science Program at Northwestern. The accelerated math course at Harvard. Rice invites pre-selected students with experience in scientific research to begin to do research as early as freshman year (it is typical to wait until junior year.) And there are others that are specific to schools. </p>
<p>Many of the most competitive merit scholarship programs at both state and private schools also come with invitations to special receptions, special seminars, and the like. </p>
<p>And at other schools, even T20 private schools, there are classes that students test into, or are invited to join as either freshmen or upper-classmen. Some time ago there was an article in the NYT about Ivy students disappointed to find out that being able to register for a class was not as simple as meeting the stated prerequisites and having registration priority.</p>
<p>Maybe we were particularly brash, but we did ask, come April, if Frazzled kids would be given any of these special privileges at the schools that admitted them, and weighed what we found out into our decisions.</p>
<p>mathmom - mine also agonized over decisions until April 30. I was happy that they had choices to make.</p>
<p>Quote:
My daughter notified both UVA and UMich as soon as she heard of her ED decision. Both schools have cancelled her applications. We could have waited until she sent in her deposit (Jan 13), and she was kind of curious to know if she would be accepted, but I told her that it wasn´t the right thing to do.</p>
<p>My thoughts and rationale exactly 
My D said she was OK with withdrawing her application from one of the two EA schools she applied, but was really curious what the outcome would have been in the other. I told her that it is honorable thing to do, besides, it might give someone a chance, and she could have been in this someone’s shoes. So she agreed, and e-mailed admissions at both schools.</p>
<p>We just talked about this last night. If you apply ea or rd, I think by all means you not do a thing until all the choices are made obvious to you. So much can happen right up until the deadline, it would be foolish to turn down anything.</p>
<p>However, with ed, we all discussed that ds wouldn’t even want to know and will pull apps as soon as he finds out. I’d hate to take someone’s spot at a school with no chance of attending just to satisfy curiousity.</p>
<p>frazzled2 - I am ignorant of those programs. My kids are not that science oriented, getting admitted to one of those programs wouldn´t tip them.</p>
<p>The question is if your kid got admitted to Y SCEA, do you then apply to HPS RD to see to have more options.</p>
<p>The system is built to encourage this sort of behavior. My S is not a super top student, but a solid academic record, great ECs and strong recs. He is not applying to the CC version of top schools, but all are respected. Some are a bit of a reach. He applied to 12 schools and I suspect will be admitted to 10 - 12 of them. The big question: which schools will offer merit packages? Its like buying an airline ticket…the price isn’t the price. He will be waiting probably through February to see what is offered from the schools where he is accepted. I see no other way to play this given the current system.</p>
<p>oldfort, that would depend. A kid who was a legacy at Y might have applied SCEA there for the perceived extra boost, even if they actually preferred H just as an example. Or perhaps they just belatedly realize Cambridge > New Haven., 
There are reasons why one might apply to a top school even if it’s not really a top choice. I made my oldest apply to Harvard because I thought his chances of getting in were better than at MIT - I was right as it turned out. If MIT had been an ED school instead of EA he might have applied early to Harvard.</p>
<p>I think it’s pretty rare that the kids who apply SCEA to the big name schools actually go on to apply elsewhere. Though, if I recall correctly, I seem to remember at least one poster who applied SCEA to Yale even though she preferred Swarthmore.</p>
<h1>11</h1>
<p>What’s he complaining about?
Admissions is a profit center.</p>
<p>I do think there are times when it is the right thing to do to withdrawal an app even in the absence of ED. My son had been accepted to an OOS school with great merit and had the chance to be awarded additional merit in March. By February he had been accepted in-state and knew that even if awarded additional merit he would choose the in-state school. He wanted to take his name out of the running so it could more likely be awarded to a student who was seriously considering that university. Obviously he may not have been awarded any additional monies, however why even take that chance. If a student is the least bit unsure, or additional funds might sway a decision, by all means keep your options open. Another thing he noted was he wanted to free up his spot in honors housing for someone else as he knew there were kids that didn’t sign up in time.</p>
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<p>I think that when a school like Harvard is trying to craft a class they will scoop up the very top math students, for example, in the EA round. Then they will wait till the RD round to see what all the other mathy applicants bring to the table. I don’t see anything wrong with that.</p>
<p>My son was one who agonized and waited till the bitter end to decide. One choice was his father’s alma mater, where he’d always dreamed of going. The other was an elite school he would never have imagined himself even applying to had he not spent time with current students the summer before his senior year.</p>