Hyps, Schmips: It really doesn't matter!

College Search & Selection
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<p>I have published this on the parental forum. I thought you kids would appreciate it.</p>

<p>Hyps, Schmips: It really doesn’t matter! </p>

<p>I have been reading this forum and the other forums for some time. I find it amusing that everyone is so anxious about getting into some top school. I have had kids ask " if their life is over if they don’t get into and IVY or MIT etc." Parents are frantic about college admissions and I certainly don’t see a lot of reason in parental advice. Let me put the record straight as I see it.</p>

<p>As a tax lawyer and writer, I have encountered thousands if not tens-of-thousands of successful people. Based on my observations ( which may not be scientific or even provable), I have come to the following conclusions:</p>

<li>For most majors, the undergraduate school that you attend doesn’t matter! Yes, you heard me correctly. The vast, vast, majority of sucessful people that I have met did not go to an ivy league undergrad school, MIT, major LAC or even CC top 20! In fact, many of the people that I know that attended Harvard or other ivys went into some form of think tank or research and are not hugely successful, at least monetarily. </li>
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<p>2.Morover, the major involved in the undergraduate area was also irrelevant. I have met just as many successful accounting majors as I have people who majored in philosophy, political science, biology, english, engineering, computer science, entrepreneurship etc. I will admit,however, that I haven’t met a lot of successful folks who simply major in general business administration. </p>

<li>There is an exception to observation number one for people who majored in music and art. I can say that many of the successful people in music did attend at one point or another a conservatory, that even I heard of, such as Juliard, Cincinnati Conservatory, Peabody, New England Conservatory etc. There seems to be a decent correlation between making it in music and attending a “name” conservatory. However, it could be that the admission’s process weeds out the unfit and screens for the best. Thus, it could be self-fulfilling. Successful artists usually have also attened some name school such as RISD, Pratt, SAIC, MICA, etc. However, this correlation isn’t by any means foolproof. I have met some successful rock bands who had little training in any formal school.</li>
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<p>One interesting thing is that I have met a number of folks who have “made it” in TV or in movies. There doesn’t seem to be any correlation between the type of school that they attended as an undergraduate and what made them successful. Some went to Harvard and Yale and some attended schools with less prestige. There honestly doesn’t seem to be a correlation. Many of the sucessful ones did get some kind so theater or voice training with some specialist however.</p>

<li>What does matter, however, is drive, and determination ,and good people skills. Most of the sucessful people ( and I am judging success by monetary gains,which can be arguably wrong), are very driven folks that have great people skills. Also, Many did very well scholastically ( 3.5 or better)in their undergraduate schools,which leads me to believe that top grades from a decent school is a much better indicator of success than mediocre to decent grades from a top school. I am not sure why this is so. It could be that top grades get folks into better graduate and professional schools. It could be that driven people are driven throughout their life in all that they do including studying.</li>
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<p>Also, good people and social skills are a MUST. This may be the most important skill of all. Successful people must learn to market themselves to clients, customers, bosses etc. Having good people skils can make a world of difference.</p>

<p>Bottom line: Please chill out and tell your kids to relax regarding the process. It really doesn’t matter that much which school that they attend, unless they want to become a musician or artist. However, once they do attend a college, give it all that they can, while attempting to enjor the college experience. Just my 2 cents.</p>

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<p>u are right, if people are actually worried about this stuff in this country. The top universities in this country have acceptances around 10%,which is really easy and the admissions policy in the US makes it easier for you for enjoy what u do in high school.(ECs, AP classes, summer programs) This advice should be given to those kids in Asia, where admissions to top universities really does determine their life. I find it hard to believe a top student anywhere would not be worried about where he/she goes to college. Did u not get into your top choice school or something? its okay man.</p>

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<p>Jeffl, yes, they seem concerned in this country especially in CC. As far as myself, my post doesn't echo my past. I attended good schools,but not necessarily the top schools. However, I generally graduated among the top of my class. I was one of those driven kids.</p>

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<p>when i was in high school, there were only about 10% in my class who actually cared about where they will be going for college. All the other kids just chilled, smoked weed, made kids and graduated high school to their minimum wage jobs.</p>

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<p>I go to a normal high school, where maybe 10 people tops of out 500 go to top schools, so cc doesn't reflect me or my classmates. Sure, going to a top school would rock my socks, but I would be just as happy attending my local flagship university.</p>

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<p>no offense, i know your post was not intended to insult anyone, but i felt as if you were telling me, personally, that everything i have been worrying about was trite, petty, and unimportant. as true as what you have said may be, its very unfair to come along and basically tell me that ive wasted my time worrying and spending money figuring out where i would go for my undergrad. i dont know if anyone else felt this way, but i did.</p>

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<p>thanks for posting that, tax.</p>

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<p>i don't think tax meant to demean people who are extremely involved in gaining admission to a top school, but he's just saying that it isn't the end of the world. so many people on cc (including myself) regard admissions as life or death, and i believe he's just telling us to calm down. that being said, i'll prolly forget that after studying like heck for APs and SATs and trying to maintain my ECs</p>

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<p>most of you will probably go on to a top school but it's people like me who need the motivation to keep trying.</p>

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<p>to all those who think college admissions is a life-or-death situation: after may 1st, you'll understand taxguy's post better. and then 30 year's later, you'll probably be like taxguy and make that post yourself. i believe everything taxguy posted, and perhaps it may seems absurd now, but eventually, we'll all come to understand that college admissions ISNT life-or-death.</p>

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<p>agreed taxguy
all points that have been made many times, but on this board, I think they need to be repeated as often as possible :)</p>

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<p>Since when is monetary success the only important thing out there? What about those weirdos amongst us who worry about our admission into a good school because we want an intellectually stimulating environment, because we're actually interested (gasp!) in the subjects we want to study, not just in prestige and making lots of money?</p>

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<p>Kitkattail, you are just like many of the posters here on CC,which I why I wrote my post. You seem to assume that attending a top name school is the only way to get a stimulating educational experience. I can assure you that you can obtain the same educational stimulation at most schools if you are a motivated student. If you don't believe me, just browse the bookstores of ivy league schools on a subject by subject basis and write down the names of the texts used. Afterwoods, go to a couple of decent schools whose name isn't as well recognized and browse their bookstores. In many cases, the texts are the same or at least very similar. Moreover, review the required curriculum for majors at various schools and low-and-behold, it is usually similar from school to school. For example, a physics,math, english or accounting major usually takes the same required courses and has most of the same options to choose from regardless of school.</p>

<p>Many of the state schools now have honors programs for you to interface with top notch students too. Univ of Maryland,which I am familiar with, has average SATs for their scholars of 1400. This doesn't sound too shabby to me.</p>

<p>Moreover, if you are looking for close student-faculty interaction at big schools like MIT or ivy schools, you will find the following quote by the Provost of Harvard quite interesting:</p>

<hr>

<p>Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Globe, Dec 16, 2004
Here is my favorite (indirect) quote, reported to Bradley by a student who met with Summers during office hours. The student told Summers "he was disappointed by how little contact he'd had with most of his professors." In reply, Summers "basically said that at Harvard, we choose to go only for the best scholars, and that if you wanted somewhere that focused on undergraduate teaching, you should go to a place like Amherst or Swarthmore." High school seniors, direct your applications accordingly. </p>

<hr>

<p>However, my post simply deals with the results produced by schools. Admittedly, as I noted, I have based these results on long-term monetary results,which, as I noted, could be arguably wrong for some people. You can take my evaluations and do with it as you please.</p>

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<p>Taxguy, you can find enclaves of smart people at many schools, but Kit has a point. At the top schools you will mostly be surrounded by people with extraordinary talents in a broad variety of things. Those environmants are exytrordinary and rare opportunities. I was incredibly fortunate to have been in 2 such places, one for high school and one for college. I treasure what they both gave me and will, if money is available, offer the same to my children.</p>

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<p>Most successful people didn't go to the best college but the best colleges put out a much higher percentage of successful people. The contributions of HYPS to the labor force are pretty miniscule so it isn't wise to assume that just because most successful people didn't graduate from these institutions that there is no correlation between a "name" college and success. Though I don't have exact stats to back this up, I'm pretty sure that graduates of HYPS are vastly overrepresented in the group of so-called succesful people.</p>

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<p>I believe Taxguys is right, to an extent. Honors degrees from local colleges tend to translate very well on the local level, but nationally they are harder to work with. Also, I believe most schools in the top 25 give you the opportunity to do almost anything, as long as you do well.</p>

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<p>Thank you very much, but I don't assume that only at a "top school" can you find academic rigour. Note that I said "good school," not "top school." I'm talking not about the prestige of the school's name but about its actual academic strength. And whatever arguments you may make, there are undeniably some schools that are academically better than others. So if someone has researched his area of interest extensively, found out the best programs for what he wants, and applied to them, is it necessarily an indication of his pettiness that he should be anxious in awaiting their admissions decision?</p>

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<p>Kitkattail,</p>

<p>I agree with you too. I found Dartmouth to be an amazing place in terms of the student attitude and camrederie. The amount of mutual respect people had for each other was amazing. I feel that this is a very strong benefit of going to the smaller and more tightknit top schools.</p>