@4kids4us I agree with you. It’s unfortunate how quick people are to assume that “hard work” can always lead to top grades.
Offers to do extra credit work at the end of the semester always amuse me though. “Hey Prof, how would you like some extra hours unpaid?”
@4kids4us your last post resonated with me, as my child has an LD . She works so hard, yet many times her grades, especially on tests, dont show that. Even with registration at the disabilities office. that wont always help her, and just gets her extended time. I feel so bad for her. If she was not good at writing she would be one of the kids in the OP class who might not be able to get a higher grade.
“One of my professors WHO WAS VERY LENIENT said early on in the semester “If you don’t do homework and don’t come to class and want to come beg for a grade in December, I’ll laugh at you.””
The late, great Irven DeVore taught a much-loved (and not difficult) Core class at Harvard that was popular with second-semester seniors finishing a science graduation requirement. At the first lecture, he said, “Dear seniors, please be aware that if you fail this class, you fail this class. You will still fail even if that means you don’t graduate. The best excuse I ever got was from the child of an African head of state, whose father had already chartered the plane to fly his cabinet to Cambridge for commencement. The student still failed and didn’t graduate on time. And you’re not going to top that.”
I’m really enjoying the excuses posted here.
But sometimes a student is a C student and gets a C. A student can work really really hard and still be a C student in that subject. If a written test is required and a student isn’t good at written tests, the grade is probably is going to be lower than if a project or paper is the bulk of the grade
Aaah, the late lamented Science B-29, “Human Behavioral Biology” aka “Sex” When Harvard has a gen ed class with an enrollment cap of several hundred, it has to take a lot to fail, IMO.
And if their GPA is not what they feel that they deserve it is because the college practices “grade deflation”.
Student (sneeringly, and who didn’t participate with his team in a team-based project course): You can’t fail me because we need this course to graduate.
Me: Yes, I can.
So, when the student(s) begged about graduation- and when he got the begging emails and calls from their major advisors- he gathered their records and let the provost handle it.
One issue, Imo, is saying, work harder. It can be more than that. It’s partly working smarter, learing more, and anticipting expectations in testing and grading. It’s not a matter of an extra hour or etc.
This reminded me of an exchange that one of my colleagues had posted. A student came to the faculty member and asked,
Student: “Hey, can I do some extra credit work to raise my grade in this class?”
Professor: “Um, it’s May.”
Student: “Oh, sorry may I do some extra credit work?”
Not really laughing at my own students (who have been great), nor at the ones my colleague teaches–it’s an apocryphal story, but I still like it.
One of my favorites, not yet addressed, “Coach wanted me to ask if I could get a better grade.” Ah, athletic eligibility.
And one of my favorite things to ask the students who"be missed some work, maybe not a lot, and then asking for extra credit: “Do you need a definition of the word extra?"
I was an architectural engineering major because I wanted to design building structures. I didn’t want to major in civil engineering because I had no interest in roads, wastewater facilities, etc. As part of my major, we had to take two semesters of architectural design so that we could better understand what architects do. OMG, I don’t have an artistic bone in my body! I worked hard, hard, hard and scraped by with a B one semester and a C the other. I had almost all As, otherwise. Some classes are just plain hard! I don’t understand begging for a better grade based on effort!
This entitlement mentality goes along with this last generation where everybody gets a participation award. Earn your grade or award. It is earned, not begged nor bought.
It’s a class thing too. It never would have occurred to me to ask for a higher grade. The biggest whiners come from very well-off areas. My working class friends wouldn’t dream of this.
Are there exceptions? Of course. But this has been my experience across more than one university.
One of my favorite expressions during the annual review process is “We appreciate effort. We VALUE results.”
You are graded on what you accomplished. It’s true at school, it’s true at work.
I have yet to read of a student saying “Do you know who my father/mother is?”. But i am sure it has happened.
@MaineLonghorn I started out as an architect and couldn’t get above a C in studio (same as you, I am lacking in artistic skills). I switched to CivE after 2 years. In retrospect, it was a very good thing that I was graded fairly for the classes and did not get my studio grades bumped up to stay in the program.
This is only valid if all tests/assignments/projects presented to the students are executed flawlessly, and if the grading of all tests/assignments/projects are executed without error or variance. I simply don’t see this as realistic. Exam questions may be unclear to students, an exam may have been created that reasonably required more time than was allotted, the amount of partial credit awarded for a question or assignment can be very subjective, student’s may be sick or have exams or assignments due the same day for two or more classes, etc. Any combination of these or other factors could easily push a student 0.1-0.2 points below the grade they deserve.
If the student has participated in the class throughout the year, is able to request reconsideration for specific assignments or exam scores, and is able to clearly articulate why they feel their grade on said assignments or exams should be raised, then I think they should be given that consideration.
^^^ When does the rounding-up stop? At 100%? Students will always have a reason for wanting a higher grade than the one they’ve earned.
I want to add here that by and large my students are lovely people and do work very hard. The complainers are the minority, but they are exhausting. This is a tough class, and there are some students who are just glad to get out with that C or C+. For some people, writing is a difficult skill. Some of these have accomodations and some don’t, but either way, that doesn’t make a lot of difference in this class since we don’t do in-class tests.
My students are much younger, but the seeds are already being sown. Here’s another:
“I feel like I deserve a higher grade.”
My students are much younger, but the seeds are already being sown. Here’s another:
“I feel like I deserve a higher grade.” The students’ FEELINGS are more important that the actual performance.
I had a recent incident when a student insisted we had to stop class to discuss this statement in depth. Because he had done the homework…it just wasn’t the right assignment – wrong chapter, wrong page! Mom even emailed.