I can't decide: Brown or Columbia

College Search & Selection
1

<p>so I know these two colleges aren't exactly the most similar to each other as say, Brown and Amherst, but I've finally narrowed it down between Brown and Columbia. </p>

<p>I've been going back and forth weighing the pros and cons each one has, but they just seem to both have things I like and dislike, and I can't choose. gah.</p>

<p>any help/advice/suggestions?? :D</p>

<p>pros for brown:
-open curriculum
-quaint sort of campus
-has my major</p>

<p>cons for brown:
-Providence seems small and kind of.. antique? and the thing is, I grew up in a rural, small town and I just want to get away from a place that doesn't have a lot of building still left over from like the 18th century. To me, Providence comes off as really un- modern, though I still like the campus of the college to be antique and have an old kind of charm, just not the surrounding environment.
-really spread out</p>

<p>pros for columbia:
-in NYC (BIG CITY :D)
-has my major
-core curriculum.. actually this is, to me, a plus because I plan on majoring in some field of science (maybe engineering or bio), but I'm not a really math/science person and I actually enjoy classes that deal with humanities and social sciences. So the core curriculum wouldn't be much different than the open curriculum at brown, because I'd still be majoring in something science-y, while branching out into other subjects
-the campus is so modern, yet classic</p>

<p>cons for columbia:
-the campus seems small.. and condensed
-the campus isn't as antiqueish/oldie as brown is.. it feels TOO modern, and even though I enjoy modern campuses, it feels like there's too much concrete (?)</p>

<p>thanks to those who read all of that.. but I'm desperate in actually finally choosing a college I can ED. Note, also, I've taken the SAT I and SAT II three times each......and brown offers score choice while columbia doesn't.. does that pose a problem if I do end up applying to columbia?</p>

<p>if I totally botched up a characteristic of brown/columbia, tell me.. because this is how I perceive both campuses in my mind right now lol =)</p>

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<p>Why not list the 3 most important factors you want in college and go from there?</p>

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<p>I go to Columbia. The campus is small, but that’s not necessarily a con. It depends on what you want in a university - personally I like the fact that I don’t have to take a shuttle to get to my library, and that it takes me 10 minutes at best to get across it. I am a graduate student so my perspective is different - I don’t live on campus, and when I went to a small campus in undergrad (a small, tiny campus) it got claustrophobic after about two years.</p>

<p>But this is my third year at Columbia (I’m a PhD student) and the campus never gets old for me - I love the mix of ancient and modern, I still feel a little tingle when I climb the stairs of Low Library or go into Butler. It’s probably because I always dreamed of going to Columbia, and wasn’t able to go as an undergrad.</p>

<p>Anyway, that’s enough waxing poetic. I’m never really sure why all you students on CC seem so hell-bent on applying ED to schools…it seems like you’re missing the point. If you are still torn between schools, WHY apply Early Decision? The theoretical “boost” (which has never been corroborated by a current admissions officer) isn’t worth the ability to compare financial aid packages and take your time to go to admitted student days and visit, IMO.</p>

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<p>1980 Brown grad here, still live about half way between Boston and Providence. When I went to Brown in the late 1970’s, Providence was a dump. We never went downtown except to go to Lupo’s to see bands or get food at 2 a.m. :slight_smile: The renaissance of Providence over the past 30 years has been nothing short of astonishing! The downtown has been completely renovated, the rivers opened up (they were covered by huge bridges), a large new mall (Providence Place) and convention center constructed. Providence has great restaurants, good clubs (Lupo’s is till going strong I hear, although I haven’t been there in years), world class theater (Trinity Square Repertory Theater) and Broadway shows at the Providence Performing Arts Center, a beautifiully renovated 1920’s movie palace. No, it’s not New York, but Providence has its own attractions and charms. If you want a bigger city experience, Boston is an hour north by train, bus or car. The beautiful RI beaches are 45 minutes south of Providence. There’s plenty to do on campus, Thayer Street is right there with shops and restaurants, and downtown is a short walk or bus ride away. If you have your heart set on going to college in NYC, by all means go to Columbia. Just remember it’s a failrly long subway ride from Morningside Heights to the attractions of midtown and lower Manhattan.</p>

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<p>“I’m never really sure why all you students on CC seem so hell-bent on applying ED to schools…it seems like you’re missing the point.”</p>

<p>The point is, they want to get in someplace. Have you looked at some of the admit % differences between ED and RD at some of these schools?</p>

<p>"If you are still torn between schools, WHY apply Early Decision? "</p>

<p>Because they want to get in to at least one of them, and this seems to them to be quite unlikely, by the numbers, if they wait till RD.</p>

<p>“The theoretical “boost” (which has never been corroborated by a current admissions officer)”</p>

<p>Yes it has, for some schools anyway, an admissions officer (at another school) told me this to my face at an info session. There is another thread on CC right now where somone has provided links to corroborating statements from various universities.</p>

<p>"… isn’t worth the ability to compare financial aid packages and take your time to go to admitted student days and visit, IMO. "</p>

<p>Not if waiting has the result of them being rejected in RD, where this might otherwise not have been the case. If you are rejected, there are likewise no financial aid packages to compare, and also you will not be invited to the admitted student days. If money is the paramount concern for your family, then you may have more incentive to wait till RD, to get more offers since finances may drive your decision. But financial circumstances differ, many applicants are not in this situation.</p>

<p>You can visit the campus well before admitted student days. If people are planning to apply ED, they can do all their homework and make a sufficiently informed decision, in time to do that. One just has to start the investigation process earlier, so it will be completed earlier.</p>

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<p>I went to Brown and my view is that the open curriculum is not only about courses; it is a microcosm of the approach at Brown. The Professors and the university are open to helping you do what you want to do. The open curriculum reflects an openness which I still find refreshing 30 years later after having just returned from taking my son to visit. To me (and my son)a friendly atmosphere was and continues to be important. These may be the last four years before you have a job, it makes sense to choose something that you will also feel comfortable with.</p>

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<p>How can you consider the open curriculum at Brown to be a big plus and then the intensely-demanding core at Columbia a big plus?</p>

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<p>The campus and its surrounding environments are really the deciding factors for me now. I’ve already lowered it down to Columbia and Brown based on their curriculum.</p>

<p>And I want the open curriculum so that I can have the freedom to take classes that don’t deal with science, since I enjoy classes that deal with humanities too, though I most likely will major in a field of science.</p>

<p>But I’ve heard that at Columbia, its core curriculum requires you to take classes that don’t deal with your major. In my case, that would pretty much be like taking art, english, and history classes, which I actually want.</p>

<p>So, either way, at either colleges, I’m going to be taking a courseload that I desire…tell me if I’m wrong or deluded though… because this is just what I’ve gathered from CC lol :D</p>

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<p>Oh, and I don’t mind if I’m not near Manhattan and such… I just want to be in the hustle and bustle of NYC… I don’t think I could live for another four years in a place that is quiet. Although Brown doesn’t seem rural or super quiet by any means, I don’t know if Providence would still be too small for me. </p>

<p>Basically I love Brown’s campus, but not exactly Providence. It would seem like a lovely place to be, but I love a really urban setting. </p>

<p>And I love the fact that Columbia is situated in NYC, but its campus seems incredibly modern, and, from the pictures, I can see a lot of concrete… which isn’t really what I picture as my college.</p>

<p>Maybe I’m just being too picky… or I should look elsewhere, but I’ve considered A LOT of colleges already.</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone’s input though, you guys have all really helped a lot!</p>

<p>Oh, and I would definitely visit both Columbia and Brown, but I’m currently in school… and plane tickets would cost too much just to visit colleges and such… I should’ve gone in the summer and planned out a whole vacation out of it, but I was at a research camp in Cali all summer.XD</p>

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<p>Providence is far from boring. In adult terms, it’s considered a mecca among small cities. Yes, it has many old buildings, but everything new is…well, new- the mall, the hi-rise condos, the office buildings. Brown is across the street from RISD, which increases the neat-student factor. What college kids don’t initially get (I have two) is that the campus becomes your city. Your focus is on what events and actiities are offered there. Are you confusing what makes NYC a great to visit with what would make it ideal for four years? If you want to major in science, but are “not really a science/math person,” your application will be in competition at both schools with kids who are already committed. The open curriculum at Brown is not about dillying around- it’s for mature students to have the option of exploring courses outside their concentration, with no academic penalty.</p>

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<p>Quite frankly it sounds like you’re being very superficial. The campus is obviously important considering you’re spending 4 years though, but really, there’s no perfect campus and you’re being extremely picky. Nothing about Columbia screams “modern” to me save for the newest buildings (like the student center), just urban. </p>

<p>As for the curriculum…I’m still confused over how you came to the conclusion that the two polar-opposite Ivies curriculum-wise both offer you the perfect choice. EVERY school requires you to take classes outside your major. At no university, not even MIT or Caltech, will you only be taking science classes as a science major. Not only will you have breadth requirements, but you’ll probably have room for electives as well, which don’t need to be in your major.</p>

<p>I’ll be honest and say it really seems like you’re just set on going to an Ivy. Have you thought of UChicago? It sounds like it fits your idyllic picture pretty well, and it has EA. What about Penn? An urban setting but quainter than Columbia in some respects (since it actually has trees and grass and stuff…). </p>

<p>If you really want to make an informed decision and figure out where you’ll be happier, I suggest coming up with more characteristics you want in a school besides a constrained idea of the perfect campus.</p>

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<p>I love how people ignorant about schools love to offer their opinions. </p>

<p>1) It takes 5-10 minutes on the express subway to get to midtown from Columbia. </p>

<p>2) Columbia has tons of trees. Ever heard of College Walk, which is filled with beautiful cherry blossoms that can go toe to toe with any scenery on the Washington Mall. It is also lit up pretty nice during Xmas…</p>

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<p>@lookingforward I’m committed to majoring in science. When I say “not a science/math person”, I mean math/science isn’t my life. It doesn’t mean I don’t want that as my career. Sorry if you misinterpreted, but at my school, if you’re a math/science person, then you obsess/are genius at math and science. I’m NOT genius at that particular subject; I’m more well- rounded. And I know what I want to major in, but since my school is so small, it doesn’t offer a lot of humanities- based classes, and I want to take those classes and experience them before I actually get a job. Our school focuses more on math/ science because there are a lot of people here that excel in that field.</p>

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<p>@CAPA</p>

<p>yes, I’ve heard of UChicago, and thanks for informing me that I am indeed being picky and for correcting me about Columbia’s “modern” architecture. From the pictures and videos I’ve seen, Columbia seems modern… but I haven’t actually visited the campus so I don’t really know. I would apply to UChicago if I could handle the courseload, but I’ve deduced that I can’t. The campus is beautiful though, and would be one of my top choices if it wasn’t so academically intense.</p>

<p>As for the curriculum, I’m going to major in science, but I want to take humanities classes. Now, that can be achieved at Brown because of the open curriculum and, from what I’ve gathered on the CC forums, also at Columbia because it’s mandatory to take classes outside of your major. And since my major is science, then I’d have to take non- science classes… which fits right into my plan of what I would do with Brown’s open curriculum. And maybe other colleges do that, but I narrowed down my college search to these two schools, so I pretty much pitted Columbia vs. Brown. And the reasons I’ve listed aren’t the only reasons why I want to go to Columbia/Brown. It would be too much information to list if I actually typed them out on here. I’m just getting down to the nitpicking and superficial, shallow parts to decide which college to apply to. </p>

<p>Oh, and I’ve heard UPenn is situated in Philly… which I’ve also heard isn’t the best city ?? But I’ll look into it. A campus that’s quainter than Columbia sounds good. lol I always pegged UPenn for its Wharton School of Business, so I’d always dismissed it… since I don’t plan on majoring in business. But I chose Columbia and Brown for its popular majors and from seeing the majors and concentrations people here on CC discussed.</p>

<p>And I just want to go somewhere with really cold winters in a busy urban setting… it doesn’t necessarily have to be an Ivy. If you could give me more suggestions??</p>

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<p>@Smart Guy I’ve actually seen pictures of College Walk, especially pictures of it in the winter. It is very pretty hahah.</p>

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<p>Blair, now it’s clearer. You do know what you’re doing, but wonder which environment might suit you better. You want to move from a less cosmopolitan area and a school where your own choices were limited, to something bolder- but still a good fit. Being able to experiment with some academic freedom is important. May I suggest you start a new thread with a careful rephrasing of the original question? Straightforward, no apologies. Perhaps you can get responses from students at both or recent grads.</p>

<p>Think about what will be important to you, day-in/day-out during college. Bright lights/big city? Brown is campus unto itself, on edge of “the East Side” of Providence. I don’t think videos show the real picture. It across from RISD on one side and Thayer St (shops, dining, films, etc) on another. There is constant intermingling between the campus core and the local neighborhoods- this is no isolated ivory tower on a hill. It’s probably 1/4 mile to the center of Prov. </p>

<p>PS. In terms of academic breadth of opps, you have the right reasons for Brown. They have a supplemental question, “Why Brown?” Your response to me, here, is a great start. You do need to visit both schools.</p>

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<p>Philly isn’t “the best city” but it’s still a great place, especially to spend your college years. It is the 5th largest city in the US. Providence is 137th.</p>

<p>And the campus is positively enormous for an urban campus. At 300 acres, Penn dwarfs Columbia’s 32 acres and is more than double Brown’s 143 acres. Much of that is greenspace, as you can see on the Facilities map [University</a> of Pennsylvania | Facilities & Real Estate Services](<a href=“http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/map.php]University”>Map | University of Pennsylvania Facilities and Real Estate Services) </p>

<p>(and the biopond is the best-kept secret of Penn–unless it’s 4/20 that is! [UPenn</a> - SAS - Department of Biology - Biopond](<a href=“http://www.bio.upenn.edu/facilities/greenhouse/biopond/]UPenn”>http://www.bio.upenn.edu/facilities/greenhouse/biopond/) )</p>

<p>Wharton students are 1/4 of the undergraduate population. There is clearly more to Penn undergrad than Wharton!</p>

<p>The College curriculum is between Columbia’s and Brown’s in terms of rigor/flexibility, giving you a handful of sectoral requirements. In other words:</p>

<p>Columbia: “you must take THIS history course”
Penn: “you must take A history course”
Brown: “how about basket-weaving?”</p>

<p>It’s not for everyone (no school is) but it’s definitely worth a look.</p>