<p>Californiapink--I am so sorry! Your D should enroll at any jr. college she cares to and get rid of all her gen eds or as many as possible. next year she should audition at as many schools as possible as a transfer. it is vital that you and your D understand how stacked the odds are against even the most talented of applicants and your D must put all other obligations aside and audition at as many schools as she can. my d auditioned at 10 schools--some reaches, some less than a reach, and two which had no auditions--and got into 4 audition schools: emerson, syracuse, roosevelt and university of arizona. but if she was good enough for syracuse and emerson, etc, why was she turned away from ithica, hartt, webster--who knows? it just goes to illustrate how unpredictable this whole process is. as a transfer, your daughter might even have a leg up in the auditions because many of the schools dont get a great deal of transfer students--and she will have fulfilled so many requirements already that she can really concentrate on her theatre classes. if she went to fullerton, maybe she could even take some theatre classes as electives which will be invaluable for auditions next winter. i wish your and your D well.</p>
<p>Californiapink- I'm so about your daughter's rejections. However with such an incredible resume it seems like she will go far no matter what anyway. It is true that schools really select kids like directors select casts to make a company. You can only select so many of a certain type and perhaps her choices were looking for the belters this time around. Some of the schools may have thought that their school wasn't the best fit because she is already so accomplished. Who knows exactly what goes on in their minds from time to time. At least she has the option of getting another year of training, getting rid of gen. eds at a college where she's been accepted, or just auditioning for shows around your area.</p>
<p>If I can make a suggestion to schools that you should look at for next year. BW & OCU seem to really go for the soprano, ingenue type of students. They have a great reputation and wonderful MT programs. It might be something to look into, especially since she seems to be an ideal "type" for those schools. I wish her luck on whatever she decides to do in the coming year.</p>
<p>and californiapink--if i didnt say it often enough in the last post: i think what you and your D are going through is completely heartbreaking--she sounds enormously talented--in her future tony speech she can gleefully list the schools that turned her down this year--my heart goes out to you and your lovely D.</p>
<p>Californiapink -</p>
<p>I read your post feeling like I "know" your daughter, because I coached a beautiful, incredibly talented young ingenue/belter with a nearly identical background who had a very similar experience with her college auditions. She has been performing professionally and in high demand since she was 6; she had a major NYC casting experience that led her all the way to the final 5 for a coveted role; she has top grades and achievements in other areas; and she was extremely well-prepared with great material that really suited her. She had a realistic, clear picture of the competition at the top schools for which she auditioned (several on your D's list and several others), but she also knew she had done well at several schools based on the reponse she received (for example, being passed along to several faculty people during CMU's audition, which amounts to a "callback" from them). However, she was rejected by her top choice and several others and spent months thinking that no one wanted her, which was absolutely devastating after she had spent 2/3 of young life being lauded (justifiably so) as a rare and gifted performer. Her story has a "happier" ending than your D's, as she was accepted to a school at which she will be happy and learn a lot - but frankly, it's a place she would never have considered prior to her experience with rejections from several programs. Her audition list was a bit more extensive than your D's, but like your D, she didn't have a true safety school on her list, something which we discussed a great deal but which frankly I didn't think she'd need. (Boy, did I learn MY lesson as a coach - that even with all of my years of coaching auditioness, I can still be surprised by outcomes and MUST INSIST that all of my coachees have safeties!) I spent many, many hours discussing options with this young woman in the midst of brokenhearted phone calls about how "no one wanted" her, when it seemed as if she would have no college options this year, and I'd be glad to share those with you specific to your D. We also discussed how she could have chosen slightly different material - only slightly different, but material which would have highlighted what she brings that is UNIQUE to her in the pool of beautiful ingenue belters. But to be honest, her material was carefully chosen along those lines to begin with, and it was very well-received at all auditions - so while a slight change in material may not have made any difference at all. She may simply have been a victim of "selection," as it seems your D likely was.</p>
<p>I do think everything happens for a reason, and I know what the reason my student "needed" to go through this is, although I would not wish her pain on anyone - and now that she has an option, she, too, can step back and consider what that reason likely was. She has said that although she "knew" about the competitiveness of MT from countless anecdotes shared by me and by her friends already attending CCM, UM, CMU, etc. and from statistics, that she did not UNDERSTAND it until it stopped her in her tracks with her college rejections. She said, "I thought I was a hard worker (she is), but I will now work SO much harder because I know there are SO MANY people out there who are just as good or better." She is by no means an arrogant young woman - but she truly had never been in a competitive pool like the BFA college admissions process, even after her NYC casting experience. College auditions may be the most competitive casting pool young women will ever face, because by the time they graduate from college programs, people's differences as performers have been shaped much more clearly, so they are no longer all 18 year-old ingenues with very similar material, look, etc. - and also, newly-graduated perfomers begin to choose media and geographic location, so that some of the MT ingenues will base themselves in LA, some will tour (and be out of the audition circuit for a time), some will get a long-term gig, some will choose a different career path, etc.</p>
<p>The reasons for your D's incredibly painful experience are yet to be revealed -perhaps she will get a great professional gig this year, for example - but I'm sure they're there. And I know that doesn't help right now, at all. Although I have never seen your D perform, I'd bet a LOT of money that what is true of my student with the similar experience is also true of her - that in spite of this college audition experience, she is one of the most talented young women I have ever seen - and I say that based on years of experience coaching and watching the MT classes of many top schools "grow up" through their programs. If your D is truly passionate about MT, she will come out of this SO much stronger (regardless of how strong she was before), and that will read in her performances and auditions from now on. I jokingly tell my students, "Use it in your art" when they are upset about "minor" things - but I also truly mean it, absolutely non-facetiously, when they face terrible hurts like this one: work through it as YOU need to, and when you are finally at peace, it will be a part of your life experience that will enrich anything you do onstage.</p>
<p>I hope this provides some small amount of help or comfort. Please feel free to contact me at any time!</p>
<p>P.S. Based on the roles you say your D's played, it sounds as if she is a belter more than a soprano - or both equally. In that case, OCU is probably not an ideal program for her, as you may already know. Although they do work with belt voices there, they will not focus on her belt like they will her legit MT and operatic voice. BW takes all "types" of young women.</p>
<p>Cali-pink- I just wanted to add that I have heard good things about Loyola Marymount's theatre program in the past. Have her look at it seriously. If they don't offer the dance components she needs, being right in LA I am sure she could manage to get dance classes nearby. I am so sorry she is dealing with this rejection. I know it is hard, as every rejection letter my D got stung as well. But staying in the Bay Area or coming down to LA would both provide her with lots of opportunities to audition and do shows.
If she does stay at home and go to community college, consider College of Marin. They have always done great theatre there. I am not sure if this is still the case, but they used to do one musical a year plus an operetta. She could get her gen ed stuff out of the way, and still have quality theatre experiences. You are fortunate to live in an area like the Bay Area where there is so much good theatre around. Please let us know what she decides, and how it turns out for her.</p>
<p>hey i have a question...ive been accepted to several MT programs that i thought i was interested in. but im just not really excited about ne of them. i was considering taking off a semester...taking serious acting, voice, and dance, getting a job, doing some community theatre and then taking transferable gen ed classes at a local school...is that crazy?! and could i still get into programs if i was applying for january 2007?! i just dont want to screw myself over and ive heard everyone talking about taking a year off but not a semester?! im just confused. neone have ne thoughts?!</p>
<p>I have to say that I have very much appreciated all these posts, especially yours, CoachC. I could have written the above post about my beautiful, talented daughter, who has ALSO done Peggy in 42nd Street as well as Charity, etc. etc. and still was not accepted to one single BFA MT program this spring. Not one. And I, as a professional (classical) singer myself, thought I had some clue about the business and the competition--but it turned out I had grossly underestimated this whole thing. If I had truly understood then what I know now, I would have had her apply to a different spread of schools, including a number more good BA programs in excellent colleges with a tradition of high regard for the arts in general. It was extraordinarily difficult to watch this as my daughter, who is No. 7 in her class, received rejection after rejection--although she was accepted at most of the schools academically. She did not apply to conservatory programs.
We have a happy ending (commencement!) with her acceptance to James Madison, which does have a BA MT program. And what's coming out now is that she feels it's probably a good outcome for her, given the increased opportunity in all sorts of different areas and less intensity overall. Clearly there are advantages and disadvantages to either road.
Fortunately, my daughter commented after the 5th or so letter that she felt the whole audition thing was "bogus"--she knew she had done very well in most of her auditions. Her material was good, and she performed it very well, and in most cases received good reactions and some excellent conversations with faculty for whom she auditioned. In the end, it didn't seem to matter. But I do not believe for one moment that she is any less talented than the kids who were accepted. We'll just have to see where the road takes her.<br>
I just pass along as a cautionary tale that you cannot predict these outcomes, no matter how talented, and it is best to look at a wider range of options. And this is true right now, by the way, all across the college admissions world, not just in MT. There are just plain more of 'em out there than there have been since we baby boomers went through, and it's a different world.</p>
<p>mjacting -- </p>
<p>most BFA programs don't accept people mid-year. at least that's what i've found.</p>
<p>Let me add, that for girls it is far more difficult to get into an MT program than for boys--it is simply math--there are many, many more girls auditioning than boys and that tips the odds against even the most talented girls (and frankly, they are all talented girls)--I simply cannot agree more with every word momsinger has written. By its very nature this business is unpredictable and that starts while our kids are still in high school. My heart breaks for every kid who equates an MT college rejection with a lack of talent. It is simply NOT true. Anyone who is passionate about their dream will find a way to pursue that dream despite any real and/or perceived obstacles in the path.</p>
<p>Californiapink - I wrote you a note on the Elon thread trying to help with your question. I'm really feeling your pain tonight.</p>
<p>For you, in response to BreakintoSong's recommendation, while I absolutely agree that OCU and BW have excellent programs with especially great music training, I can tell you several real life examples from this audition season of girls who meet your exact description NOT getting into MT at these 2 schools. While they may take some who are this type, the competition is such that many girls are not getting accepted. It seems to be a very sad and realistic fact of life in this business.</p>
<p>My son said that he learned this season how very many people want to do the very same thing he wants to do. Each of us in our home towns probably only see a small amount of competition. When the whole US (and beyond) HS senior MT population is trying for the same programs, the picture changes. I have no answer, but I do always recommend that a student needs a good NON-AUDITION safety to apply to.</p>
<p>mjacting--</p>
<p>What don't you like the programs you got into? There must be something about one of these that you can get excited about. There are many older and recent posts by MTers who ended up at choices that were on the bottom or even off their list. Many of these kids are now happy. It might be better to get training at one of these places and then transfer next fall. But Sporti is right--I don't think there are BFA programs that take anyone mid year. If you read other CC posts, there are also those who stayed home, did rigorous training, community theatre and then reapplied (with great success.) Whatever you choose to do, don't make a hasty decision. Try to find someone in your area (theatre professional, teacher, etc.)who can help guide you. Good luck.</p>
<p>This past season has been an eye opening experience for us also. We have researched this field for the past two years after realizing this is the route that my d wants to go...the only route!! The competition is insane!! I did, however, fully expect there to be HUNDREDS of girls with my d's ability, and there were. Yes, she is the petite, (5'4") soprano who has played all of the roles that you can imagine. She is incredible, very strong in music playing piano, horn, guitar, participating in all of the festivals for voice and some for horn, 7 years of music theory, top of her class academically...and so on. She received one MT acceptance. If we were to go through this again, I would have made her pick a non-audition safety school to apply to because the stress just adds to the tension of the auditions. There are so many wonderful schools out there to choose from. I stand by my belief that it is not the school that makes you! Going to an ivy league school does not make you the CEO, top lawyer or doctor...it is YOU who has to accomplish that!! The same holds true for music, possibly to an even higher degree because you are doing something that you are intensely passionate about. (How many of us has been moved to tears over music? Somehow I do not think you can get quite that same level of emotions in the business world...no offense to anyone!!) This is not just a career...it is my d's life! This weekend's activities are a show tonight, NY to see a show with friends tomorrow, and a concert honoring her music director on Sunday...and this is a pretty typical weekend for her!<br>
My advice is to not give up on your dreams...ever. If this is what you truly want to do, you will find a way. Contact some of these non-audition schools now! You should not feel as if you were settling because what you are doing is following your dream. I know of exteremly talented young people who are going to "safety" schools (as we call them) as their first and only choice. We have several in our area that are wonderful programs in highly thought of schools...we were extremely impressed by them. If you are not happy, then reaudition next year. That is always an option. (I do not know of any program taking mid year applicants) Please realize you are not alone...there are more who do not get in than who do get in!!! So, hang in there and know that you have a force of cc people behind you cheering you on.<br>
Best wishes go out to all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
hey i have a question...ive been accepted to several MT programs that i thought i was interested in. but im just not really excited about ne of them.
[/quote]
I remember this time last year when I had just declared for one of my top choice programs and was totally ecstatic about it. I ordered sweatshirts, covered my room with all sorts of paraphenalia, and the whole nine yards. The summer passed, I matriculated in late August, some things happened, and by late September I was already making plans to transfer. Seeing that it was gonna be impossible to get out to auditions without creating a bunch of drama, I decided it would be best to transfer home to my state university for this semester mainly to just get my GEs out of the way and reaudition. Now, if I had any premonition this time last year that I would be where I am, I probably would've slashed my wrists. However, here I now sit with some really good conservatory acceptances and I'm satisfied enough with my situation right where I am that I'm seriously considering not leaving(though the general consensus I'm crazy)! So ... The moral of this story is that you never really know how you're gonna feel about a place until you're actually there. I say that if you're really serious about MT, just go ahead and pick one of your acceptances and run with it. The worst that could happen is that you might want to transfer. In that case, you will be able to transfer to your state U at mid-year, if necessary, but you can't do it the other way around. Don't think about the worst, though. Stay positive and you just might find yourself happy as a clam!</p>
<p>Hi. I am a first time poster here at CC. I am a senior in high school and went through the audition process this year. I was heartbroken to learn that I did not get into any programs. These past few weeks receiving rejection after rejection has been hard for me. I was accepted to my safety schools, and waitlisted at another school where I could get a BA in musical theatre (it was a non audition school). I have already decided that I am going to reaudition next year and work furiously to get better. However, I don't no what I should do and I was hoping for the advice from some CC members. Should I stay home and go to community college and study hard at home where it would be easier to get the training I need, or go away to a school with a theatre dept and take general ed classes and hope I can find a good voice teacher? Would it be looked down upon by schools such as NYU and CMU trying to transfer from a community college? I realize that attempting to transfer is going to be hard enough, let alone preparing to audition again, which is why I would like to stay closer to home. Thank you so much and I would appreciate any advice.</p>
<p>NYgirl,</p>
<p>It is so great that you've resolved to try again, and I wish you the best in getting through your disappointments. You don't say where you live or whether or not you're interested in a BA or BFA. I can't really say how faculty at schools perceive the transfer issue. It might help to review previous posts from some faculty/ coaches who contribute here: Prof H, doctorjohn, Coach C, etc. Also, it would be good to know for yourself where you'd fit best - in a BA or a BFA. I believe doctorjohn commented on this recently as do other posts from the start of this forum. From a parent's point of view, it seems, since you're planning on restarting, that it could be fine to stay close to home in a strong program in a community college setting or other state school w/ a lighter financial burden. That way you'd have access to your voice teacher, dance teachers, etc who are familiar with you. You could also have performance opportunities w/in the school environment to keep your skills fresh and make connections that might prove helpful throughout the audition process for next year. And, you might get some preliminary courses out of the way at the same time. Unfortunately, that means directly contacting the school you will attend and the prospective schools to see what matches up for transferred credits. You might also critique your audition process and address what were not your strengths, what feedback, if any, you were given. You then might need to consider some changes of teaches, coaches, in that area - never easy to do, but, sometimes necessary. Finally, you might need to do some real consideration of your own as to what kind of school should be your safety, how many to include (schools that you would actually like to attend,) how many MT schools you'd like to audition, etc. Then you probably need to consider location, pros and cons of each school, tuition, audition expense, calendar timing, etc. This is all really tough to do completely on your own. Perhaps you're not, but, if you are, you should really try to seek out a coach or mentor in your community who can guide you in the process. Our son was very specific as to what kind of schools would be considered a safety for him, one was an actual BFA program accepting larger #'s, the other was a non-audition school geographically near one of his favorites, but offering a BA in theatre with excellent opportunities as well. He was prepared to not be accepted at any BFA and made sure all schools would be schools where he could be happy. The one BA school was even chosen as a possibility for exposure in the community and eventually maybe transferring through audition to the nearby BFA school. Make sure you review the posts about schools that interest you. It's time consuming, but very valuable. You'll find out a bit about the schools and audition process there and many here seem happy to help our privately through PM or email if you need detailed info. If you live in or near NJ, feel free to email me, I'll be glad to fill you in on what we know of our area. </p>
<p>Sorry to be so long winded, keeping in mind this is just one parent's humble opinion. Best wishes to you on your journey!</p>
<p>Not that this helps anyone feel better, and we know that the below article is about general admissions rather than MT admissions. We also know that MT admissions acceptance rates are lower than the most prestigious schools. I think many of these colleges are accepting 5% or less of the MT students auditioning, some as low as 1 - 2%.</p>
<p>Here was part of an article out of my local paper today, attributed to The Washington Post: "Rejections mounting at top colleges...It's not all in your head. It is harder to get into college this year.</p>
<p>Selective schools nationwide are reporting more rejections than ever. There has been a bulge in the number of college-age students, which is expected to continue until the end of the decade. Add in an increased desire among their baby boomer parents to enroll their kids in elite schools - and the inflated number of applications from students trying to hedge their bets - and you have the ingredients for a season of frustrated hopes and unexpected disappointments.</p>
<p>Many of the best-known and most-selective universities announced record low admission rates this year. Yale set an Ivy Leage record, accepting only 8.6% of its 21,099 applicants.... Other record lows were reported by Columbia University, 9.6%, Stanford University, 11%, MIT, 13%, Brown University, 13.8%, Dartmouth College, 15.4%, and the University of Penn., 17.7%..."</p>
<p>A counselor was quoted as saying she no longer uses the term "safety school" anymore, as "things are sufficiently unpredictable".....</p>
<p>I like the last paragraph - I hope everyone on this thread will realize it's okay if your child goes somewhere that may not be considered the very top tier of MT programs:</p>
<p>"Research indicates that attendance at a well-known school does not appear to give any long-term advantage to students, at least as measured by incomes 20 years after they graduate. College counselors advise students to look for a school that offers the size and range of courses and activities they are looking for and not worry so much about where it ranks on the US News & World Report list."</p>
<p>Go to your favorite state university if nothing else - I think you or your child can find something appealing! Our kids are highly motivated, anyway, and will do great in any academic environment!</p>
<p>NYgirlatheart-- its so funny how I am in the SAME position that you are in. Although I'm not quite sure how many bfa programs you auditioned for. But I auditioned for Boston Conservatory for the BFA musical theater program and was not accepted. But since they accept more students than most conservatories, I am sure I would not have gotten into any other school had I auditioned. Now, I'm attending the Community College of Rhode Island in the fall as a liberal arts major. This school does not have the greatest theater department, so I decided to take the liberal arts path since most schools will look more favorably upon a student who is well rounded in all academic aspects, rather than a student who just excels in theatre arts. However, while taking 12 credits worth of classes at CCRI, I also plan to enroll at Rhode Island College (Rhode Island's 4 year state college) for some theater classes. This school has a very well respected BA theater program that offers a concentration in musical theater. I feel this is the best choice for me for next year because I can take the community college liberal arts courses for a very small price, while at the same time earning academic credit and artistic enrichment in the theater courses through the 4 year school. My plan for this following year is to pick up the slack and continue with my voice lessons and participation in local productions. Then I plan on auditioning for many colleges at the NY Unifieds (a great way to save cash) as well as some other schools on campus. Funny thing is... you never really learn everything you should know the first time around for bfa auditions when ur a senior in high school. Having been through it, I know what to expect next year. I just take it with a grain of salt and move along.</p>
<p>did u try out for ouachita? they have an excellent mt program.</p>
<p>NYgirlatheart-- i dont profess to know anything about the mystery behind the choices MT programs make. I do know however that there is safety in numbers. I insisted my D audition for at least 10 schools and then add two more non-audition schools to the list. it seems to me that it increases the odds. my heart goes out to you.</p>
<p><< I auditioned for Boston Conservatory for the BFA musical theater program and was not accepted. But since they accept more students than most conservatories, I am sure I would not have gotten into any other school had I auditioned. >></p>
<p>MTGeek, don't be so sure! These auditions are SO unpredictable, like sareccasmom said above, there is safety in numbers. Audition for as many programs as possible, and you'll increase the odds.</p>