I do not like my rotations at all!

Graduate School
1

<p>For people who are done with rotations, or who went to graduate school before, I need your advice!</p>

<p>I am enrolled in a PhD program in a medical school. I am about to finish my 3rd rotation, which is the last one. </p>

<p>1st: Big boss, did PhD in an okay (or less than okay) school, worked very hard in early years to climb up. A lot of people in the lab (>20), bunch of postdocs, research professors, even several assistant professors with similar field, who are supposed to be indepensent, rely on his funding because they cannot get fundings. It was intensive training experience, a lot of techniques I learned during rotation with a postdoc who was his PhD student. The project was good, but not the most exciting among the three. The boss liked me somehow and he told me he can take me as long as I want. Concerns: too many people in the lab, doubt if I can deal with good inter-people relationship. Students usually graduate in 5-6 years with only one 1st author paper. I personally prefer to have more papers, no matter going to land a job in industry or academia later. Publications are gonna help.</p>

<p>2st: Big boss, did PhD in an average school. He has a lot of fundings, but he "forces" students to apply NIH pre-doctoral fellowship if they wanna stay in the lab. For some reasons, I am not qualified to apply that fellowship. At the end of rotation, he rejected me "indirectly" by saying it's probably better for me to join in the other lab. The project was the least exciting among three rotations. Only 5-6 people in the lab, getting along with them very well.</p>

<p>3st: Big boss, did PhD in a top school. He is the top-notch in this field. I felt very interested to his research at the beginning. However, he did not give me any project to do, I feel like it is waste of time. For past one month or so, he asked everyone to stop the ongoing projects to help 2 kids to publish 2 papers. One is his son, the other is son's best friend. In theory, they are working in the lab as tech. They are going to apply med school soon. The 2 kids do not have much bio background (Ecom major). They only came to this lab one month earlier than I did. I don't know how much work they've contributed to the papers. While they are working on the papers, I got nothing to do. You might think this is not professional; however, like I said he is top-notch (average every 1-2 year he got one paper published in Nature, Science, or Cell). It's a struggling question: how can he achieve so much, but with these issues going on in the lab? </p>

<p>Now I guess I have only one option left. Let's see if it is gonna work out with the concers I have.</p>

2

<p>Many programs are cool with you taking a extra rotation. One of my coworkers did this.</p>

3

<p>I second belevitt’s post. Given your situation you should probably look into doing an extra rotation.</p>

4

<p>Believe or not, I don’t see any other lab fits my research interest or have good financial situation.</p>

5

<p>This might be a good reason to look into transferring to another program.</p>

<p>Honestly, if you’re stuck between a prospective PI who would only have you publish one paper, and another prospective PI who you feel behaves unprofessionally, you should look into the possibility of transferring to a different program.</p>

<p>Otherwise, your only feasible option would seem to be to talk to the 3rd guy’s current students and just ask them if he usually behaves a lot differently, or if this sort of attitude is common for him. Then you’ll either hear that his current behavior is an anomaly, or that he always behaves like this. And either way you’ll have to suck it up and join his lab. (That, or transfer to another program.)</p>

6

<p>As matter of fact, I did not hear too many good things about 3rd PI (things beyond science or publication). The people who worked with him before or are working with him purely strive for high-impact publication. At the beginning I thought I could live with it if I can get good outcome. Now I don’t even think he is interested to mentoring me or, at least letting me learn something. Besides 2 kids, there is only one postdoc (no other students). He is in charge of the lab. Even he feels sorry for me because I am not learning that much during the rotation. He told me he is gonna to leave this lab based on the current situation: not good communication with PI; stop everything for 2 kids. Even they have worked together for 4 years and other people from the department believe he is the main player of this lab, he senses that the boss wants to use 2 kids to replace him somehow, which is ridiculous to me.</p>

<p>Overall, I guess I’ve been consequenced with myself by choosing this school to pursue my PhD. Pathetically, this was the only school accepting me. I had to come here. It has been a mixed feeling to me: I got my B.S. from an elite school at west coast, I tried all my best to succeed. It did not work out at the end: some lab experience, no publication, barely got 3.0 GPA due to competitiveness of the school.
At this point, I am depressed when thinking about to stuck at this **** hole forever. On the other hand, I don’t know technically how difficult to transfer to another school at this point though I thought about that before. Our graduate curriculum consists of 2-year classes. I am about to finish 1st year. Current GPA 4.0. What’s the chance to transfer to a decent school/program?</p>

7

<p>It’s certainly possible you could transfer, and you’ll never know unless you try. How were your GRE scores (general + subject)? Do you have good LORs? If you have good GRE scores, strong LORs, and a convincing personal statement/statement of purpose, I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to transfer. You have a good reason to transfer: there isn’t a good research fit for you at your current program.</p>

<p>Out of curiosity, approximately what is your current program’s [url=<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/bio/search]ranking”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/bio/search]ranking</a> in US News<a href=“i.e.,%20is%20it%20ranked%20within%20the%20top%2010?%20top%2020?”>/url</a>?</p>

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<p>I am having some trouble following you. What are these 2 kids you keep mentioning? Are they children that live in the lab? Who would be classified as a kid?</p>

9

<p>Aceflyer, check your message plz.</p>

10

<p>the 2 kids: just graduated from college. post-baccalaureate, if you wanna call that. One is boss’s son, the other is the son’s best high school friend. Both were non-bio related major.</p>

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<p>I understand your problem. I am finishing up my 3rd rotation. My third rotation is a lot like your last 1st rotation (+ bad reputation for training students), and my other two rotations PIs do not have money to take people. I am now debating what to do too. </p>

<p>I would definately stay away from the 3rd lab. Does the 2nd one require you to secure NIH funding to stay in the lab or do you just have to apply for it? Regardless you suggest that this lab is out. Do the students in the first lab get high impact papers? If so, I would not throw out that option now. A single first author nature paper is not going to hurt you. If you go to that lab, I would try to help other people in the lab to get some other papers.</p>

<p>You say that no one else is doing what you want to study. You might want to check with PIs doing other things. A lot of faculty have projects that they are interested in but they do not have active projects, so you may actually fit in well in another lab. You may also want to consider other research areas at your current school. You just need enough interest in a project to see it through for 5yrs, since your post doc project is the area you will end up in.</p>

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<p>Hi mtlve, thanks for your input!
In fact, the 1st rotation lab might be the best option so far. The best paper of the graduates in recent years have imapct factor around 8.
2nd lab: the requirement is not written; however, other people told me students have to get NIH pre-doctoral fellowship to stay in his lab. Certain students who did not have american citizenship were rejected to join in the lab before.
Doing more rotation: that’s not what I want at this point although some other PI’s invited me to do so. I wanna get everything done by the end of three rotations.</p>

13

<p>

This is understandable, but getting into a lab that makes you happy will save you time and stress in the long run.</p>

<p>If you’re not happy with the three rotations you’ve done, you should either do a fourth rotation or look into transferring. Picking a lab with which you’re already unhappy is a recipe for disaster and burnout.</p>

14

<p>Help his kids and his friend publish?
***?</p>

<p>What, so his postdocs are supposed to slave away for these kids?
Who is this PI?</p>

15

<p>shnjb, what you said is true.
You know academia is a small world. I cannot tell you the name.
I feel sorry for that postdoc: doing a lot of work for 2 kids~~~</p>

16

<p>Goddamn that really really sucks.</p>

17

<p>molliebatmit, what you said is true! I am thinking technically how to transfer successfully</p>

18

<p>If you are not happy with your three rotations, I would try to find a lab at your current institution instead of transferring. Your 4th rotation may be the perfect lab for you. If you transfer, you would probably be starting over and doing three more rotations and maybe repeating coursework. I think that transferring would probably add another year to your graduate training, so I would avoid it. Transferring this time of year may not even be an option, since most schools have finished their application process. If there are no other lab options at your current institution, then it is unavoidable. Good luck</p>

19

<p>What ks106 is describing is not unheard of. A few years ago, I worked at a different university (not my own) over the summer, where the PI next door to my lab was known to do even worse things. He had two small children who were regularly picked up from school and/or babysat by his international students and international post-docs (without compensation). These students and post-docs also had to run household errands and mow lawns and do other things for him and his wife. They could not do otherwise, as the status of their visas were at the mercy of this PI- he threatened bad recommendations for their renewals, etc. It was incredible to me until I heard it firsthand… It’s good that you are figuring these things out before committing to a lab- the 3rd one reminds me strongly of this situation. Run fast in the other direction- don’t even mess around with this guy. </p>

<p>You must have worked hard to get into your current program- so instead of going through the grueling transfer process, my advice is to look into a 4th rotation. Try to think about how to widen your interests for this purpose. From what I’ve heard, grad school thesis topics are not necessarily what you will devote your whole life to, so think about getting into something outside your comfort zone that you’ve never tried before- that still interests you, of course- but something you haven’t thought about before. Chances are you can find a great lab with a caring PI who just might not be doing the exact thing you expected to do in the beginning. Best of luck!</p>

20

<p>I agree with ymmit. Look for another lab in your current program that is doing something that interests you. I too have heard that your graduate research area does not matter, so you just need to find a lab where you will be happy and productive.</p>