<p>I’m am a minority student and sometimes I really do think that I just got in so I could be a part of the school’s “diversity.” I don’t really know what to say. I already know that I’m not as smart as the other people going in from the suburbs. I’m willing to work hard in all my classes and I wanted to go towards Computer Science and then go on to law school. I’m not interested in African-American studies or sociology or whatever. I wish I could have lived in Troy and went to good schools my whole life but frankly I didn’t. I appreciate the minor slap in the face, lol. It just proves to me that I really have to get on my game. But still, I just feel like I’m destined for failure, educationally and socially. </p>
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<p>Username is detroithopeful, probably a good bet.</p>
<p>I have no idea what the TCs stats are but I believe probably 99% of admitted students could get at least a 3.0 in pretty much any major should they decide that’s what they want. Of 'course, no one wants to spend 80 hours a week studying, so plenty do worse than 3.0. But it’s not that they couldn’t do it if they wanted to. </p>
<p>I thought I’d be dumb at Michigan (my test scores were substantially lower than par), I wasn’t. People aren’t as smart as it seems from the outside.</p>
<p>CS is a pretty easy way to go because you pretty much have to just be a passing student to get a job. Forget law school though, 3 years more school and barely higher salary? Not worth bothering with. </p>
<p>dm2017 - well then you have a big carrot at the end of your undergrad. I say this because private corporations are able to recruit to improving their diversity and virtually every large corporate have diversity goals. If you get through undergrad, you’ll be highly sought in the private market.</p>
<p>While I understand what you are saying, you really, really need to be positive, determined and prepared to use the fantastic resources at your disposal. You’ll get much more acquainted with these resources during the Bridge program. But, only you can supply the positivety and determination; throw in a bunch of resiliency when things aren’t going so well. </p>
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<p>It’s easy because all you need to do is pass. If you get a 3.0 you can still get 6 figures starting. Good luck doing that with any other major. Yes, it is very very hard to be the top of the class in CS, it’s not all that hard to pass your classes and when you do a great job is pretty much automatic. You don’t need to be the top of the class in CS, it’s totally unnecessary.</p>
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<p>No, it’s not unrealistic. People do it all the time with no problems. The math is not hard (much easier than a Math or Stats degree), there’s no science (yeah, you have to take chem and physics for the CSE degree, but that’s it), and you don’t need programming exposure. </p>
<p>“Come August a Birmingham Seaholm student with a 3.8, 33 ACT and 20 AP credits and a DPS student with a 3.6, a 24 ACT and no AP credits are suddenly the same? Pure hogwash. Using degree data, the OP is more likely to drop out, take longer to graduate and major in psychology, sociology, general studies or African American studies.”</p>
<p>When August arrives, both of those incoming freshman will have the same U-M GPA.</p>
<p>Of course bearcats would jump in here with his extreme views that are not helpful to anyone and represent ridiculous elitism. (BTW: he/her?? where did you learn English?) Are you really equating the OP to chicken crap? And what kind of analysis skills do you have (from other posts you present yourself as some top-notch Wall Street dude). Although statistics may show that a majority of admitted students with weaker skills may struggle, be unsuccessful, etc., there are plenty of those students (aka “chicken crap”) who will overcome the obstacles and do important things. Should they never be given a chance because they don’t fit some preconceived notion of what it takes to be successful? </p>
<p>And Stmary’s: do you really think you know more than the admissions office at UM and the directors of the bridge program? Your suggestion is that UM has made a mistake in admitting students like this and that the only way these students can be successful is to take MOOC’s, community college classes, etc. Good to know you more about educating students from various backgrounds than the professionals at a university like Michigan. Perhaps they’ll hire you, and then you can also eliminate all the “soft science” majors which are so easy to coast through.</p>
<h2> there are plenty of those students (aka “chicken crap”) who will overcome the obstacles and do important things</h2>
<p>Define “plenty” and “important things”</p>
<p>I didn’t say OP won’t earn a degree just that it will most <em>likely</em> will not be CS, or any stem for that matter. You can cling to outliers all you want, but the facts prevail. Life isn’t fair and skill set and knowledge don’t reset for anyone come August.</p>
<p>As for the massive online courses and community college classes, those are things any student that feels behind should be doing as they prepare for Ann Arbor. Not sure why you’d take issue with someone who’s years behind the top 25% trying to catch up.</p>
<p>To illustrate how behind, how long do you think it would take the OP to get a 32 on the ACT? 6 months, a year… never? Why would we sugar coat the reality of the landscape? That does nobody any favors. OP can either coast to a humanities degree or grind and be an outlier.</p>
<p>stmarys: All STEM jobs together account for 25% of the workforce. That means 75% are in non-STEM fields. While I certainly would encourage anyone to go into a STEM field, clearly there are many other job opportunities out there and your dismissal of any major other than STEM is ridiculous. Are STEM jobs the only “important” jobs out there? What world are you living in? Some futuristic world where everyone is ruled through technology?</p>
<p>And why discount outliers? Are their accomplishments meaningless? The fact that there are people who are successful despite not meeting the obvious criteria of projecting future success (i.e., being fortunate enough to being born to a family in Birmingham, MI) is exactly why colleges have programs like this. </p>
<p>Why do you assume that someone like the OP is “years” behind other students at Michigan? Just because they came from Detroit and not Birmingham? BTW, are you the resurrection of bluebound? Sure sounds like it.</p>
<p>From your other posts, it looks like you are going to be a freshman at Michigan, which means you are 17/18. Perhaps that explains it.</p>
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<p>I had a 27 ACT. I still did pretty well. </p>
<p>Sure, most people with much higher test scores from much better schools will probably do better than TC, doesn’t mean TC is doomed though by any means. </p>
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<p>I had a good laugh right here</p>
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<p>You’re majoring in CS right?</p>
<p>Congratulations, as unbelievable as it is you can look forward to some pretty nice pay. </p>
<p>if I recall correctly, according to the COE annual report, the median salary is like 70k-77k.
So, I guess the median would be a 2.75GPA, and that’s why 3.0 GPA kids get 100k.</p>
<p>I was talking about all in what you make your first year, dividing the signing bonus by the number of years you have to work there to keep the signing bonus. And there’s plenty of other compensation that comes along as well. The numbers posted there are just the salaries, and it says 80K median 81.5K mean. Even this sounds a bit under what I’ve generally heard though.</p>
<p>Try and find someone who majored in CS going into software development making under 80K. You can probably find someone but it’s harder than you think. </p>
<p>And since I had it open, to add to the discussion in the other topic, 18 people reported being hired by Amazon full time and 32 by Microsoft. The majority of these will be CS majors going to software development. Together it’s a very substantial portion of those graduating with a CS degree. </p>
<p>dm2017, you’re name implies you just completed freshman year? Have you taken any CS class? It seriously isn’t that hard to just pass. You do have to actually do something, but it’s just not that hard if passing is the standard. </p>
<p>I also have no idea how you purport to know the TCs ACT score, but I’m telling you I had a 27, I had no experience before college, did just fine. I don’t know TCs ACT score, but I’m pretty confident it’s above 17. If I had to take a guess I’d say average ACT in CS is probably 32 or so, and I’m still pretty sure TC has above a 22. </p>
<p>Every year for the past 4 or so there have been more graduates in CS than the year previous. Classes like EECS 280 and 281 are constantly getting bigger. </p>
<p>I would not really worry about High School performance. I just had a pretty decent first year and didn’t do too well at my High School. I had a 3.4 HS GPA, earned a 28 ACT score, and took one AP class (which was AP art). I didn’t take calculus and I didn’t learn anything in Physics or Chemistry. I haven’t seen the statistics, but I was probably in the bottom 20% or so. </p>
<p>Despite my under-achievements, I decided to major in Computer Science, allegedly one of the hardest majors at the universities. After my first year, I’ve been doing just fine despite my High School performance. The thing about the introductory classes is that they teach you the material as if you never learned it before. So while classes like AP Physics and AP Chemistry may be recommended, they are by no leans required (take it from someone who didn’t learn anything in the standard High School versions of those classes).</p>
<p>My classes first year were English, Physics lab I, Chemistry lab, Physics Mechanics (Physics 140), General Chemistry, Calculus I, Calculus II, Intro Programming (EECS 183), Intro to Philosophy, and a random CSP class (because my advisor thought another hard class would be too difficult for me). I got A’s in all these except Chem lab (where I got a B+), leaving me with a 3.83 overall. Second semester, I would have gotten a 4.0 of it weren’t for one A-.</p>
<p>While it is true that poor performers in High School tend to be poor performers in College, don’t look too closely into those statistics. Remember that correlation does not imply causation. The reason (I think) that poor performers in HS also do poorly in college is because people rarely drastically change their behavior from HS to college; its not as if past poor performance causally prevents future success. So poor study habits from HS carry over to college and the students don’t survive.</p>
<p>What’s more important than those statistics is what you decide to do. Are you willing to dramatically improve your study skills? Are you willing to learn how to read the textbook (a skill that MANY students here have not acquired). Are you willing to do Physics problem sets over and over until you understand the concepts? Are you willing to independently get help when its 10 pm on a Wednesday, and you don’t understand the textbook (such as using online sites like Khan Academy). I had to do all of this.</p>
<p>I’m not saying it’s going to be easy, but its certainly possible. And if you put in reasonable effort, including acting in the affirmative to the above questions, then I would say its even plausible that you have academic success at this university. Remember, the most important thing is what you decide to do and how you’re going to change. The stats say what you already did, but not what you’re going to do.</p>
<p>If you’re taking Calculus here, I recommend you review algebra/trigonometry over the summer and you’ll be good to go. From what I’ve seen, that’s literally the only prerequisite absolutely essential to succeeding in the classes. If you’re really nervous, then just review what you learned (or should have learned) in HS. No need to worry about not taking AP Physics or AP Calculus or anything like that. The intro classes are perfectly possible without any HS AP course background - they’re called “introductory” courses for a reason.</p>
<p>As for social stuff, I’ll get back at you when I figure it out myself…</p>
<p>@dm</p>
<p>I’m not sure what the OP’s stats are, so I won’t assume. In any case, determination and effort are going to be substantially more important than High School performance. While college work ethic can be roughly approximated by HS stats, it’s going to come down to - more than anything else - the OP’s own choices and dedicating to improve. </p>
<p>I have a 3.5 and a 24 ACT score. I’m just going to join the army. Thanks y’all! </p>
<p>OP ^ I hope you’re not serious, not that there’s anything wrong with military service.</p>
<p>PEOPLE WHO POST COMMENTS: REMEMBER THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL LIVES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. You don’t know this person AT ALL, and you are presuming to make judgments about this person’s future success in life. Shame on you. Think before you post. </p>
<p>To continue: The OP was asking about how to be successful when the obstacles are higher for him/her than for some students. The OP did not want your opinion on the likelihood of his or her success, and certainly did not expect to be told that he/she has little chance of success. Again, shame on you. Your “honest opinions” are based on blind statistics and without knowing more about the OP, you should not be engaging in such speculation.</p>