<p>goose, I said I was using an extreme example to get my point across.</p>
<p>Well I am a pretty bad interviewer. I guess I will have to resort to the doom and gloom as an AP Clerk with no outstanding future in sight for me.</p>
<p>Have fun with your shiny corporate cards and fancy happy hours as you get every chance to beef up your resume even more with big firm names and projects before you are on the verge of becoming CFO’s for global organizations.</p>
<p>I will just be sitting here at the Accounts Payable office with Granny Jones and Margaret the receptionist contemplating on what my life could have been if I didn’t slack off in college.</p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>If you are a top 5% student and are applying to a firm that accepts only the top 1% of students, then don’t you think you should maybe not leverage yourself completely on receiving that job?</p>
<p>The bottom line is that the job market is pretty woeful and thus makes getting a job increasingly difficult. You must compensate for the possibility of being “out done” by an equally competent but more impressive interviewee by applying to as many firms as possible. Otherwise, you will be weeping about your three failed job applications while you scramble to ultimately find a job as a bookkeeper at your local cupcake shop.</p>
<p>^^i completly agree. And that is a mistake alot of students make. With networking, applying, researching…they spend all their efforts on the big 4 or public accounting when they should be expanding their efforts. </p>
<p>Its not just the top jobs that are super competitive…</p>
<p>spsp1212, haha. Thats the spirit!</p>
<p>Ew… I was already turned off by accounting, but this turns me off from it even more.</p>
<p>[Think</a> twice before you get that accounting degree (employment, consulting, degrees) - Jobs, employers, employees, hiring, resumes, occupations, government, laws, unions, contracts, workers, part-time - City-Data Forum](<a href=“http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1004020-think-twice-before-you-get-accounting.html]Think”>Think twice before you get that accounting degree (employment, consulting, degrees) - Work and Employment -Jobs, employers, employees, hiring, resumes, occupations, government, laws, unions, contracts, workers, part-time - City-Data Forum)</p>
<p>"About 20% of accounting grads will end up working in public accounting for one of the big 4/top ten firms making $45-$50k in their first year. Not everyone switching to accounting will get these jobs. You need to have AT LEAST a 3.5 gpa, internship experience, and have gone to a feeder school that firms recruit from. </p>
<p>The other 80% will be lucky if they will make more than $18/hour after 3 years. Accounting is starting to become like law school, if you cant get into a Tier 1 firm then you probably shouldn’t even major in accounting. There are much easier ways to make $18/hour. "</p>
<p>20% chance of employment at the big4 is a pretty good stat. I think its much lower than that, more like %5-8</p>
<p>MusicJosh…while I admittedly know very little about the field of accounting, I think the posting of your last “quote” is baseless and lowers the credibility of this site for quality information regarding accounting. Your opinion is quoting an other persons opinion; that persons user-name happens to be “misc.random.” Not exactly a credible authority on the future of accounting, if you continue to read his posts you will see he simply only offers opinion, with no credentials or experience listed, judging by his writing style and tone, I would say he was an unsuccessful applicant for accounting firms. </p>
<p>If you are going to quote something to warn of impending doom in the field, please make sure it is from a reputable source that has been published and peer-reviewed</p>
<p>For example, “The most intractable problem is that there are never enough skilled or promising people to go around. Just as competition for the best of the bunch is growing, the pool of available talent is changing. In America baby-boomers are flooding into retirement; in Europe the market is greying; and in India and China the large number of graduates masks low numbers of truly high-quality candidates.” and “Retaining good people is the biggest challenge. Turnover rates at the Big Four have historically been highroughly 15-20% leave each year”
By the way, this was published in the economist, the source is below</p>
<p>[Talent</a> management: Accounting for good people | The Economist](<a href=“Accounting for good people”>Accounting for good people)</p>
<p>Now, it can be implied that due to the economy, baby-boomers are holding on to their jobs to restore their 401k’s or help their children who are struggling, yet when the economy picks up (it’s cyclical every 30-40 years, take a look at a history of economics book), the biggest working generation will retire leaving a glut of opportunity. As was also stated, “HIGH QUALITY” grads are hard to find. The article states that the big four employ 500,000…if you take the conservative turnover rate, that equals approximately 75,000 jobs per year (again, just big four).</p>
<p>Moral of the story has always been the same, work hard, get good grades, be well rounded and network, and I’m hopeful that one of those 75,000 jobs at a big4 firm can go to you…and if you don’t pigeon-hole yourself to just them, your odds only improve</p>
<p>Perhaps… but I didn’t realize til recently that it is that hard to get a Big 4 job. Big 4 is obviously gold on the resume, yet it’s still not that great… I know people who work there that complain about it all the time.</p>
<p>What are your career prospects after you get into the big4? Do you work for around 55-60k during the duration of your whole career? Is there a chance to reach a 6 figure salary lets say… after 7-8 years? Is it as lucrative as working in Management consulting after you reach the top?</p>
<p>MusicJosh…not sure if you are a fan of comedy (in particular Louis CK) but if your friends who work at the big four are in their 20’s as most are, this clip at the 37 second mark answers your question as to why they complain</p>
<p>[Louis</a> CK - I’m prejudiced against 20 yr olds - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>Halukcan: of course the money goes up. By how much, I’m not sure, but it should be in the neighborhood of 6 years when you make in the six figures. I’m not sure about the partner level, but at the lower/mid level, consultants make slightly more than CPAs</p>
<p>“big4 is gold on the resume…but its still not that good”. </p>
<p>Brilliant statement! Let me try to make a statement like this one. Hmmm…Apple pie is delicious, but it still doesn’t taste that good. Yeah…that makes a lot of sense, right!</p>
<p>Mighty…don’t fight it. This forum is filled to capacity with forum dwellers who pass on bad information from other forum dwellers, none of whom have actual experience to speak on the matter. You can try to explain this to them, but they will all respond the same way…“I know someone,”. </p>
<p>Just provide information that you have experience on or can back up with credible sources (like you did) and hope that the ones seeking information disregard all the information from the “I know someone” trolls.</p>
<p>“big4 is gold on the resume…yet it’s still not that great”.</p>
<p>“Brilliant statement! Let me try to make a statement like this one. Hmmm…Apple pie is delicious, but it still doesn’t taste that good. Yeah…that makes a lot of sense, right!”</p>
<p>It doesn’t make any sense, for a statement cannot contain a contradiction in itself. You can either say that something is good or bad, but not good and bad at the same time. You should have said that: "having a big 4 name on your resume is good, but working there is not. In this case you could say that because having a name on a resume and working are two different things. Yet, when you say, “big4 is gold on the resume,” (meaning it is good) and then say “yet it’s still not that great;” it blows the whole statement off. In relevance to an apple pie, it is the same thing: “Apple pie is delicious [tastes good], but it still doesn’t taste that good.” (you should give a comparison, otherwise you don’t know what are you talking about) For instance, an apple pie is delicious, but it doesn’t taste like a banana pie. In other words, although an apple pie tastes good, it is still not better than a banana pie.</p>
<p>I’m a rationalist and I believe that a true knowledge is derived through reason, not through senses and experience.</p>
<p>Tosh, I really hope that ridiculous post was sarcastic as the statement you just broke down. If not, step away from the keyboard and quit taking yourself so seriously. </p>
<p>Also…please enlighten me on how experience is trumped by reason when it comes to something like what a job is like.</p>
<p>workingATbig4, “Tosh, I really hope that ridiculous post was sarcastic as the statement you just broke down. If not, step away from the keyboard and quit taking yourself so seriously.”</p>
<p>hahaha…</p>
<p>^You are always making an accent on your own personal experience, which doesn’t really carry a value, except maybe for yourself. It seems that you do not understand a simple fact that each person may experience a job, or any other thing, differently. Thus, the true knowledge of “what a job is like” cannot be based on experience, especially on the experience of a single person, like yourself. The reason comes in handy when a person looks at a job description, requiremnets, reviews, etc., and by using reason understands or makes a conclusion what is it going to be like for himself/herself.</p>
<p>Ok, today was a bit busy so I’ve had some coffee, ehem…</p>
<p>My only posts (outside of these two which were OOC) were opinion based responses to the first topic which was the pay of Accountants. The thread derailed and people are now talking about the quality of work at Big4, none of whom have worked there. Notice, I didn’t say that the worked didn’t suck at times. I was just highlighting that once again, we have someone using the “I know someone” argument.</p>
<p>Your point about personal experience not being worth anything and I 100% agree. However, go read most of my posts. My beginning posts highlighted that I am involved in recruiting for a Big4 nationally. Thus my advice comes from PERSONALLY EXPERIENCING the data on recruiting, being in countless meetings about recruiting techniques and standards we use GLOBALLY, etc. The advice I give on big4 and accounting is not at all on the level of personal experience. It is insider knowledge of what the company looks for, how the company works, etc.</p>
<p>The largest thread on this forum is taxguy’s post. It is filled with question upon question directed at taxguy. Why are there so many? Because he has laid out his credentials and people feel he is knowledgeable. He isn’t knowledgeable because he “knows people” or because someone else on the internet said so. He is knowledgeable because he has EXPERIENCED it. </p>
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<p>Woah, woah, woah! Need help getting foot out of mouth? What are reviews? Reviews, in the sense you are talking about are first hand accounts of something…right? Isn’t that experience?</p>
<p>Tosh, I don’t think anything sums up how ignorant (not in a name calling sense) you are about this, more than that whole quote. This statement is 100% illogical. If we take out the “reviews” part, what you are saying is that a person that reads job descriptions and requirements has a better understanding of the job than someone who gets first hand advice from someone who has done/is doing the job. You don’t really believe that do you?</p>
<p>workingATbig4,
“This statement is 100% illogical. If we take out the “reviews” part, what you are saying is that a person that reads job descriptions and requirements has a better understanding of the job than someone who gets first hand advice from someone who has done/is doing the job. You don’t really believe that do you?”</p>
<p>Why not? A job description, as it is called, is a true description of a job. While, the first hand advice from an individual is not a reliable source because it may be biased, exaggerated, diminished, and so on. According to your other posts, you don’t believe it yourself. Do you remember when you said that people on these boards mostly give out their advices based on their knowledge of someone. Yet, that is a first hand advise from someone. I talked about people I know, when I wanted to prove that there are no absolute standards by which to judge. In order to prove that a certain statement is wrong, you just have to provide at least one opposite example. So when you say that there is a certain GPA cutoff at a big 4, it may not be true because there might be an individual people who got the job despite their GPA being lower; and people on these boards point that out when they talk about someone they know. </p>
<p>workingATbig4,
“Woah, woah, woah! Need help getting foot out of mouth? What are reviews? Reviews, in the sense you are talking about are first hand accounts of something…right? Isn’t that experience?”</p>
<p>Okay so? You can look at the reviews, and by using reason make your decision/conclusion. For instance, Isaac Newton figured out the law of gravity by using reason. No matter how many times an apple is going to fall on your head, and you EXPERIENCE a pain, or see an apple falling, you won’t be able to figure out why it is falling, unless you will use a reason. And most of the people didn’t, before Newton.</p>
<p>Seriously some people are silly. Quit bickering and get a job.</p>
<p>What jobs?</p>