<p>So what? It’s irrelevant, since we’re here in America.</p>
<p>If I went to China and insisted on telling my children that they should really focus on their extracurriculars, because the key to getting into a good college was predicated upon how well they threw a football / kicked a soccer ball / helped little old ladies cross the street, I’d be looked upon as … well, stupid, because I’d be trying to apply American norms to a Chinese situation.</p>
<p>But, when people try to apply Chinese norms (success can only be had by going to one of a handful of colleges, otherwise you’ll never achieve anything) to an American situation, we’re not supposed to have the same reaction? What’s the difference?</p>
<p>Right. It’s funny how I’ve never heard any parent on CC say, “You know, my relatives back in the old country really do think that it’s HYP or bust. And I thought so myself, before I came here and saw what it’s like. So, now, I make it a point to tell them that there are lots of great colleges here, and that while HYP are certainly special, you can do fabulously in the US from just about anywhere; it’s not like you think it is.” </p>
<p>I guess it’s more important to impress people even if they’re wrong.</p>
<p>The attitude is akin to “My relatives in the old country think that New York City is the capital of New York. So, rather than actually correct their misperceptions, I’m going to continue to act as though NYC is the capital of New York.”</p>
<p>What is American norms? There is no such thing. If you are an orthodox Jew living around NYC, it is your American norms to leave before sundown every Fri and leave every electronic gadget on from Fri eve until Sat eve. If you are a Chinese living in NYC, it it your American norms to go down to Chinatown to have dim sum with your friends and talk about each other’s kids. What you may think is “American norms” in the midwest or west coast may not be NE American norms. In some regions it’s perfectly normal to have weddings with a cake and turkey cold cuts, but in the NE that would not be the norm. Around where I live, one of the most “white” suburb in NJ, everyone knows where each kid is going to college. I have perfect stranger asking me how my daughter is doing at college X. I don’t think anyone is in any position to define what American norms is because there is no such thing.</p>
<p>Oldfort has a point. There is not a single “America” (pace Obama). We live in specific communities with their own customs and usages. In mine, nobody seems to ask where your child is applying or got admitted to, let alone your child’s sal/val/rank, stats, etc… My Ss did not know the stats of some of his best friends even though he saw them every day. But in other schools, not a million miles away, students seem to know to the last digit what the GPA and SAT scores of their peers/competitors are.</p>
<p>I’ll bet you celebrate Christmas differently from me, from Oldfort and from many others posters on CC. All in America. That’s the beauty of this country.
Cross-posted with Oldfort. I should add that, apparently, if you’re a Jew in America at Christmas, it seems that the custom is to eat Chinese food and go to a movie. In my house, we eat a ham. No Chinese food.</p>
<p>esoteric_xx, tell them to read CC to see how difficult it is to get into any Ivy. BTW, I hope you apply EE to Wellesley, you have a good chance there.
OT, I think I hang around CC too long because I was shocked when I saw a couple Asian kids at my daugher’s high school placed into pre-algebra. :D</p>
<p>I was shocked when I saw a couple Asian kids at my daugher’s high school placed into pre-algebra.</p>
<p>LOL… Reminds me of my Jewish family members who are surprised to meet other Jewish people who aren’t successful. I guess we all have “images” in our minds. I’m Catholic, so we span all ways - rich, poor, smart, dumb, successful, ne’er do wells, saints, and sinners… LOL</p>
<p>I’m really surprised that people are saying that it isn’t in American culture to share grades. I’ve been asked about my grades by all sorts of people. My mother’s non-immigrant coworkers ask her about my SAT scores. </p>
<p>Also, yes its true that people in Asia care about what others think of them, but lets be honest here, America is no different. Watch any sitcom, and you’ll see that one of the storylines is someone going to their high school reunion and lamenting that they can’t show off there. Look at the pressure women face to look young and be a size 0. Look at the pressure men face to be seen as casanovas. Its there everywhere…you just have to be strong enough to not be susceptible to it.</p>
<p>In my opinion, Ivy League-worship has always been a part of American culture. The schools have always been connected to social elitism. I think for many immigrants, its not so much that they don’t think their children will be successful without an Ivy League degree that makes them obsess over the schools, but the idea of making it. The American Dream is that your children will be more successful than you. For many, their child getting accepted to what are widely - incorrectly or not - considered THE best schools in the country is that dream. The Ivies are seen as exclusive, elitist schools. They want their children to be part of the exclusive, elite society. Whether its right or wrong is another matter entirely.</p>
<p>Oh - and yes, I am applying EE! I already sent it in. :)</p>
<p>For any one who speaks here, it is his or her own opinion. No one person could say his or her idea is that of “america’s” idea. No one person’s idea is better or worst than the other ideas. </p>
<p>We live the way within our tradition and we make no apologize to anyone who thinks differently. We don’t judge your live style nor what do you think of HYP. Please don’t judge ours.</p>
<p>We, like every other people, simply want the best, defined by our believes and traditions, for our children. It is o.k. for others not to think the same way. However, I personally think it is 100% very rude to judge how other live their lifes based on your believes and traditions. After all, almost all of the people here in this country are immigrants. What gives one group to say theirs is the right and everyone else are wrong?</p>
<p>* After all, almost all of the people here in this country are immigrants. What gives one group to say theirs is the right and everyone else are wrong? *</p>
<p>Any “tradition” that places unnecessary and **unhealthy **stress on a child is wrong. Period.</p>
<p>(That’s not my French/Italian heritage talking; that’s my “I’m a mother” feelings talking.)</p>
<p>College process is very stressful for everyone in this country, doesn’t matter what culture you are from. Our GC used to say to us (parents and students), “Do not discuss your safeties. Your safety could be someone else’s reach.” It doesn’t matter whether your goal is HYPS or community college, what’s stressful is that uncertainty. It’s not so important as to which schools OP is applying to, it is OP’s fear of not living up to her parents expectations is what the issue is at hand here. I don’t care who you are, it is everyone’s fear. We all, as parents, put pressure on our kids whether we believe it or not. A parent’s look of disappoint is more powerful than anyone else’s. It’s the reason when my daughter didn’t get into her top choice(s), she asked me if I was disappointed in her. Of course it was the furtherest thing from my mind.</p>
<p>College process is very stressful for everyone in this country, doesn’t matter what culture you are from.</p>
<p>True…but my point was about “unnecessary” stress. That would be stress that goes beyond the normal stress associated with the college app process. I’m certainly not suggesting that students should have a stress free app process, but to CAUSE unreasonable and unhealthy stress is just plain wrong.</p>
<p>YES. Exactly. Perfectly fine students – paragons of excellence by anyone’s measure – stressing out over disappointing their parents who have some stupid notion that the world will end if their kid doesn’t get into HYP? I have no problem calling that “tradition” wrong. Don’t EVEN try to compare that to regional or ethnic traditions like presweetened iced tea or dressing up for football games or saying y’all or having dim sum and seeing a movie on December 25.</p>
<p>In the past – but I think the true elite have moved on. The true elite are considering and / or sending their kids off the beaten path. To Swarthmore, to Claremont McKenna, to schools that aren’t mass-prestige the way HYPSM is. The true elite set their own standards and aren’t interested in “impressing” Joe on the street. This striving-for-HYPSM-at-all-costs is like the complete ANTITHESIS of being elite in America.</p>
<p>That’s not to say that there is anything wrong with striving for HYPSM-style schools, or for HYPSM themselves. But the sole, narrow focus? It’s unsophisticated. It’s like a traveler who decides “I want a nice vacation, so I’m only going to look at the Ritz or the Four Seasons” and isn’t in the know enough to know that there are fabulous vacation spots that don’t bear common names. The true people in the know have a wider range.</p>
<p>PG, I am sure you know that there are over 30,000 apply to HYP each year. They are not all Asians. Some students who turn their head the other way may be they don’t have the capability, stats or drive (among other reasons) to dream about attending one of the best colleges. </p>
<p>I noted that you use the “S” word. If you don’t believe in what others do, you are entitled to your personal opinion. But using those insulting words does not make your point correct. </p>
<p>Certain pressure and high expectation are part of the drive for many of Asian students in HS. On average, Asians are best educated and having a high average income as a group. May be what we do are not that “S”. </p>
<p>BTW, many Asian parents may be disppointed that their kids did not get into HYP, none of them will think that is the end of the world. We love our kids just like everyone else, if not more so.</p>
<p>PG: But that’s not what you were arguing, was it?</p>
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<p>And some of us have argued that in many American communities, regardless of predominant background, people do ask about students’ GPAs and SAT scores. Just read CC. There are parents and children complaining every year that so-and-so got into such-and-such college despite having lower GPAs, scores, worse ECs… than the poster or the poster’s child. How do the heck do they know unless they make it a point to find out?</p>
<p>There are always tacky people, in every culture!<br>
Do you think the “true elite” of this country are the people who are frantically asking their neighbors how their children did on their SAT’s, who are keeping score as to who ranks how in the class, who sit there and fret that so-and-so’s kid got into wherever with lower scores or worse EC’s? Those are the wannabes.</p>
<p>We parents tend to validate our existence by the successes of our offspring. What’s funny/sad is that we are not always time frame aware. For instance, Matt Groening attended little Evergreen State College before moving on to create The Simpsons. He’s amazingly talented – but did HIS parents rejoice and break out the champagne when he got admitted to Evergreen State? We can hope they DID recognize his amazing nature at the time and they DID rejoice that he found a school that is massively into alternative learning and was a great fit for him. </p>
<p>What students obsessing from December to April 1 need to know is that we parents are willing to grab on to almost any success that you have as validation of ourselves. If you get into Snotty U, then we have a great bumper sticker. If you develop the next Google, we will be delighted. Guess what? We’ll also be crowing if you produce adorable (to us) grandchildren one day — or if you remember our birthday when we are 80. </p>
<p>Go succeed at something. Or, at the very least, be really good at sending birthday cards. Don’t sweat what the “Something” is. Our dreams and wishes make for a heavy load for an 18 year old. It’s ok to set that load down now and then. Honest. It is.</p>
<p>"For instance, Matt Groening attended little Evergreen State College before moving on to create The Simpsons. He’s amazingly talented – but did HIS parents rejoice and break out the champagne when he got admitted to Evergreen State? "</p>
<p>They may have. No matter how humble the college was, most parents I know did celebrate their kids’ college admissions. For instance, I’m a Harvard grad and celebrated both of my sons’ admission to second tier colleges.</p>
<p>The parents who only celebrate when their kids get into Harvard or Yale are unusual. In real life, I don’t know parents like that.</p>
<p>Actually, some of the newspapers and news posted student SAT scores. Are you saying you are the “true elite” then? I’m sick and tired of your comment about the wannabes. The true elites let the wannabes be the "wannabes "and they go on their business without having to post that they are the “true elites”. Why do you spend so much time on CC then? Give the wannabes a break.</p>
<p>* There are parents and children complaining every year that so-and-so got into such-and-such college despite having lower GPAs, scores, worse ECs… than the poster or the poster’s child. How do the heck do they know unless they make it a point to find out? *</p>
<p>No! </p>
<p>I know many of my kids’ classmates’ scores without asking. My kids’ friends text or post their scores on their Facebooks as soon as they get them - that’s how we’ve often heard/learned of them. Or, they announce them at the lunch tables at school. </p>
<p>Therefore, just because a parent knows that Susie’s scores were lower, yet she got accepted to Harvard, it doesn’t mean that anyone asked Susie (or her parents) what her scores were.</p>