<p>Hello all,
I know there have been several threads on this topic, and I've read them all before deciding to bug everyone with my question. I still would like to get opinions on my case because the cases in the other threads didn't really apply to me. So... I took the GRE yesterday and got 560V, 700Q. The verbal score stands out as very low and the quantitative score is not exactly great since I'm applying to science programs. There's no way I can retake it because some of my programs have a deadline in a couple of weeks. I'm really worried about my admission chances now. Here's my situation:
-applying to neuroscience PhD programs (most are top programs at top schools + a couple of safeties).
-4.00 GPA from UCLA (with all A+'s except one class where I got an A).
-2 years of experience as a research assistant in a neuro lab (but no publication).
-letters of recommendation from fairly famous researchers, that I think will be good because my professors like me.
-domestic applicant/california resident but English was not my first language.
I try to tell myself that maybe they will be lenient because English was my second language (they will see that on my application because they usually ask that question), or maybe they will not care because the verbal score doesn't matter much for science programs, or maybe my low GRE scores will be counterbalanced by my GPA... But at the same time, I am under the impression that I'm delusional and that top schools will just toss out my application when they see how bad I did on the GRE.
I'd like to get opinions about that. Please be honest even if that's bad news. I'm not looking to get reassured, I just wanna know where I stand. Thanks for reading me and thanks in advance for any input.</p>
<p>Don't worry so much. Your scores aren't that low, and Ph.D. programs (at least at good schools) care really little about your GRE scores and A LOT about your letters of rec. and your research experience. Play up your research experiences, get good letters of rec., and apply to some safety schools, and you should be just fine :)</p>
<p>Thanks pgbovine,
I think you're right. After doing various internet searches about the importance of GRE score in admission to PhD programs, it seems that a lot of people agree with the idea that the emphasis on GRE scores is inversely proportional to the ranking of the program, which is a good thing for me.
But when you look at average GRE scores of admits into the programs I'm applying to, it seems really hard to believe that they would take someone with scores like mine. Has anyone heard of someone getting into a top program with mediocre GRE scores (besides MIT of course, since they're well known for not looking at GRE scores)?
Also, I'm really worried about how they're gonna interpret my GPA in the light of my performance on the GRE. Since the GRE is supposed to estimate overall intelligence/aptitude, are they gonna think I'm a dumb person who somehow was able to pull off killer grades at a good school by studying all the time, or something along those lines?
I don't know, it seems crazy to me that my performance on a single test should be weighted almost as much as the grades I earned over a 4 1/2 year period of consistent hard-work.
Anyway... Sorry about the rambling but I really need to talk to people and hear what they have to say.</p>
<p>Since you can't retake the GREs for the upcoming admissions, there really isn't much you can do! Just apply to more back-up schools if you're worried. Your grades, your research experience are great and you said that you'll get good rec letters, so you should be set. I personally don't think GREs matter that much to admissions. Your academic record and your research experience stand out and if you show in your personal statement your passion for research and neuroscience they'll forget about your GRE scores. They'll probably think you just didn't perform as well as you should have when you took the test. I don't think it's a big deal.</p>
<p>I really don't think the GRE is weighed equally with GPA, and I think the hard worker vs. naturally brilliant question is usually answered with reference to LORs rather than with reference to GRE scores.</p>
<p>I had a friend on the interview circuit last year with scores (which I imagine were) similar to yours. (I don't know what the exact scores were, but he's a reasonable person and he was very disappointed.) He got into, among others, UCSF and MIT, and chose to attend MIT.</p>
<p>Obviously it's difficult to predict anybody's actual chances of admission, particularly because graduate admissions are not strongly numbers-based. Your research experience and letters of recommendation will be the most important factors in your interview offers, and your ability to talk about your research in an articulate fashion will be a very important factor in determining your acceptances. GRE scores aren't as important as that. :)</p>
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I don't know, it seems crazy to me that my performance on a single test should be weighted almost as much as the grades I earned over a 4 1/2 year period of consistent hard-work.
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<p>Yeah, don't worry. Your excellent grades show that you can be a hard worker, which is definitely a necessary (but not sufficient) requirement for a Ph.D. student.</p>
<p>What do GRE scores show? That you can spend the effort to spend a few weeks or months studying for a test. I guarantee that you can raise your GRE score significantly by spending a month or two intensely studying, practicing, and maybe taking a class, but it's soooo <em>not</em> worth it.</p>
<p>Notice that neither grades nor GRE scores show your potential to do research at the graduate level, so I don't think that people will think you're not Ph.D.-worthy just because you have high grades and low GRE scores. The main thing that shows your research potential is your research experiences (and the letters of rec. from your research advisors), so if those are good, then you have strong chances.</p>
<p>You should read my (really verbose) advice articles for grad. school and fellowship apps. on my website if you haven't done so already. My friend summarized my articles really eloquently in one sentence:</p>
<p>"Nobody cares about anything except for research, except maybe NSF"</p>
<p>Best of luck going through the process!</p>
<p>yea, i did HORRIBLY on the gre today... so this post is like my scarlett letter:</p>
<p>1st gre test (last month): 470V, 730M, 5.5W
2nd gre test (today): 360V, 770M, probably a 5.5 or 6W</p>
<p>the funny thing is that after taking the test, i felt that my math would be 550-650, and that my verbal would be 470-550... my pace was horribly off on the verbal, as i was barely done with half the test with ~7 minutes left?... i went ahead and sent these scores ONLY to stanford and columbia.</p>
<p>i plan on NOT sending these scores to my other 8 schools (berkeley, mit, ucla, dartmouth, brown, nyu, jhu, bu). do u think this is a wise move since they would be able to see my horrible verbal score? i would imagine the 40 pt increase in math won't matter that much, but the 110 pt drop in verbal would. (btw, im applying to comp sci program).</p>
<p>I'd just stick with your first test results: 470V, 730M, 5.5W
Comp. sci. doesn't care at all about verbal, and a 5.5 writing is pretty good. Math is pretty good too. Just write good essays, show your research potential, and get positive rec letters ... best of luck!</p>
<p>I got a worse GRE score than that of my last administration. Do schools usually care more about the applicant's best score? My analytical score might be around a 4.0 this time, while it was a 5.0 last time. :(</p>
<p>isn't 560 verbal around the 75th percentile? I wouldn't call that a 'bad' score at all. Not amazing, but not bad. 560 quant would be bad, but even to get 700 verbal is 96th percentile or something like that so i wouldn't worry too much.</p>
<p>i totally flunked the GRE as well. took it twice and only scored 20 points higher the second time. im applying to 3 SOC (sociology)Ph.D. programs.. UGA GSU and Emory University. im really stressed. but seriously i do not understand why my ability to recall geometry is really a major factor in the determination of my ability to be a productive graduate student!! i feel the GREs are tricky and deceptive. if you want to have a standardized test for graduate school, why not have tests that measure your knowledge of sociology, or history, or whatever program you are applying for? im really frustrated and mad and sad. and i too am out of time to take it again. what a waste of $130.</p>
<p>ah, yea. i agree that the gre that the gre is a poor measurement towards how one will do in grad school. the SAT for ugrad is way more appropriate. the GRE subject tests make perfect sense though. however, i got scared after looking at the CS gre... so i de-registered from it. oh, are u from georgia? i am, and i was actually at GSU just a few weeks ago for the southeast regional programming competition. their campus looks nice! (especialyl for a state school)</p>
<p>no i am actually from south carolina. but i am curently attending school in california. i will be finished here in may and hopefully begin graduate work in atlanta... somewhere. </p>
<p>i totally had a breakdown last night. i'm so disappointed in myself. on my practice exams. i averaged around a 1050. which is what i was shooting for (because this is exam is BOGUS!) it sux because my pace was GREAT the second time around. i felt the vocab i was thrown was not that difficult... and the math test was not near as bad as my first GRE's. yet i only scored 20 points higher and it wasnt close to my average. and you know what, i dont have a learning disability and english is my first language and i studied my ass off for this test. i just dont do well on standardized tests. (and i completely disagree with standardized tests). so yeah-- i'm left with this dismal score... and hoping that the rest of my application will shine. i'm so stressed my back is in a complete knot. all my apps are due in less than a month now. </p>
<p>i keep hearing mixed opinions on the gre. a LOT of people say-- oh the GRE isnt that big of a deal. the schools just want to see tht you took it. then i hear MORE people say you better spend $1000 on a prep class cause it makes or breaks your application. so i dont know who to believe. and you know-- the mere fact that it is almost necessary to pay money in order to prep for this test makes the test invalid to me. if we are to take a test that supposidly measures intelligence, then how is it we have to be taught how to take the test. and what about the kids that can barely scrape up enough money to take the test, much less take a prep class... is that really fair to them? </p>
<p>the more i think about this test the more i totally disagree with it. i felt stupid after recieving my scores. and you know what, i am a damn good student. the GRE's are not a true assesment of my intelligence, or my work ethic.</p>
<p>dont fret man. like u, i've heard mixed stories on how much the gre matters. a general agreement though is that it typically matters less than the other main parts to an app. they just wanna make sure ur not a moron. i also felt like a moron after getting my verbal score. just try to take comfort in knowing that it's just 1 test and one's success in professional or academia will never depend on the test. the test is only useful for applying to grad schools.</p>
<p>i think the test does measure how good ppl are at those subjects though (writing, vocab, and basic math), but w/ most ppl, i think the gre doesn't accurrately demonstrate one's ability to do well in grad school. grad schools know this. of course they care most for research. they know what they want. just, if u are tied w/ someone else, the gre is a way to distinguish b/w too people... especialyl for subject tests. regardless of what the test measures or its importance, it makes sense there exists prep courses; even if it is supposed to measure intelligence--something one cannot drastically change over little time--it seems resonable to have prep courses because a prep course can familiarize one w/ the style of the test... needed pace, etc. yes, not everyone can afford them. it's okay if not everyone can afford it. life isn't entirely fair. what if someone cant afford college? not everyone can afford a bwm, either.</p>
<p>just calm down. no need to have back aches. one's happiness should not be so heavily dependent on one's acceptance into anything in life... at least i keep trying to convince myself this.</p>
<p>The GRE, in my opinion, doesn't reflect your abilities as a prospective graduate student in any capacity. I am a horrible standardized test taker with mediocre GRE scores, an MA, and a high GPA both from great schools. It is really ashame that most of the schools I applied to will either throw my application out b/c of so-so scores or will admit me with little to no aid because of it. It's ashame that one 3 hour exam is more important than 4 years of hard work.</p>
<p>Bozwell,
Relax. When I started this thread, like you I thought that it was a shame that my performance on one stupid test was gonna outweigh years of hard work and instantly kill my chances at top schools. Yet, after several weeks of asking professors, admitted students, counselors, and everybody I could possibly get in touch with, I am now convinced that GRE scores are not so important, provided that the rest of your application is really good. I have now heard stories of several people with mediocre GRE scores getting into top programs, and even some famous professors did not themselves do so great on the GRE!! The thing that virtually everyone seems to agree with is that research experience, letters of recommendation and GPA (pretty much in that order) are all much more important than the GRE, at least at top programs.
Good luck everyone with finishing your applications!</p>
<p>BOZWELL-- i feel ya partner. i really really really feel that the GRE's are bogus. and i dont think we can just say-- well life isnt fair. i feel as a sociology major, that is it up to me as well as everyone else to make it more fair. im just calling the GRE like i see it... a classist test that measures nothing but my ability to recall information learned several years ago. like i said before-- wanna know my knowledge of sociology for grad school? give me a sociology test. </p>
<p>GOOD LUCK to y'all. i'm really glad this forum is here because i do feel a little better talkin about this stuff with other kids that are going through the same thing. ok time to stop procrastinating and start writing final papers. :)</p>
<p>yea yea i agree and all, just i wasnt sure if u were alluding to my post when u combatted the 'life is unfair' part. i only said 'life is unfair' in regards to that it's understandable if not everyone can afford the gre prep courses... that's a problem that is beyond the issue of the gre... so it's not relevant to mention for an argument against the gre.</p>
<p>CT9999 yeah i kinda was alluding to your post. and i do think that the GRE has complete control over the costs of their test. however, i do understand that ETS has no contol over which schools use their test. but this comapny isout for profit... the more schools that require their tests the better. and when it comes to consumerism in education, i do take issue. but i do understand what you are saying about things just not being fair. they arent. and it sucks. but i guess i am really disappointed that those in academia participate in these acts of classism (in my opinion) just as much as the rest of society. </p>
<p>hope that made sense. i'm just piping mad over this test. :)</p>
<p>oh--i forgot-- i think that GRE preparation is absolutely relevant to this discussion. those who can afford a prep class score much higher. therefore, those who can barely scape together enough money to take the test are left out in the cold pretty much. the one thing all my professors told me was the gre is all about knowing how to take the test, not so much what is contained in the test. </p>
<p>thanks for the discussion!! i love it. well i hate the subject, but i do love to talk issues over. :) hope your night is more productive than mine...</p>