<p>Personally, I think affirmative action is a good program. Although it may be true that different races have different cultures, religons, etc, does that really matter? Don't people from all races just want to be happy and successful? I think it is unfair that people are saying that black people only value sex...ask any black parent what values/qualities they want instilled in their child, and I doubt "sex appeal" will be their answer. By the way, I am white.</p>
<p>iin77: I'm a URM who's very against AA simply because it does say URMS are dumber than their caucasian/asain conterparts. I believe the key behind the differing scores are indeed societal values. The hip/hop culture has taken the black (my) race back perhaps a century. I was just talking to another URM friend who grew up in an underpriviliged neighborhood and he spoke a lot about how education and "white" accomplishment is actually frowned upon.</p>
<p>Even in priviliged URM families, the students always seem to have a sense of purpose for their race. My mom (URM) does talk a lot about the hardships she had to endure to become a doctor. My dad (ORM) just told me life can be a b----, get over it; that's the advice I took to heart.</p>
<p>iin77 makes generalizations, but he is right about how the differing values evidence themselves in test scores/gpa etc.</p>
<p>I don't think anyone who has enough initiative to be on CC can understand how engrained these fundamentally wrong values can be in blacks and other URMs. Take yourselves out of the small AP, 2000+ SAT group and put yourself in an intellectually average group. The prejudices and misconceptions you will find are nothing short of phenominal.</p>
<p>My college counselour proclaimed gloriously of the advantages of my Indian ethnicity (Asian Indian mind you) when I began meeting with her in the 10th grade to begin my college search. So I happily selected, Asian Indian as my nationality when asked to do so on applications.</p>
<p>However now I realize and have heard that it can actually hurt me, as data from school acceptances indicate quotas - consistent numbers of students, ratios, and percent accepted by nationalities in general.</p>
<p>You are mistaken. People from Spain and Portugal - are considered "latinos" and thus Hispanics. I have a friend from Spain - and she was able to select that, much to her delight.</p>
<p>
<p>White society wants to be successful in life (in an "academic" profession)... then be athletic, have sex, and start a family.</p>
<p>That's why most professional athletes are black and most politicians, businessmen, et cetera are white.</p>
<p>You might say this is racist, but black people will agree.
</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure that I value education and that I want to be successful before I start a family and I'm pretty sure all of my black friends feel the same way, but hey, white people are smarter than black people, so what do I know?
They don't?
Tell that to my parents...</p>
<p>Way to tell them!
Honestly what narrowmindedness is this!</p>
<p>Blueflame, as I said above. If you are even here, you do not have those values. Imagine the hip/hop culture is like a religion that instills values and whatnot into young children who's parents or envornment tauts it. I'm not religious, but I've seen a devotion among pious people similar to those who grew up in the hip/hop culture. Fortunantly some people smarten up to tradition and question the answer's their given - girls are *****es, crime is good, education is for white people...</p>
<p>ok. basically, affirmative action = giving preferance to a race
basically theyre being racist against white people. which is lame.</p>
<p>if other nationalities have worse IQs, its their fault.
so, i'm against raical affirmative action</p>
<p>socioeconomic affirmative action is okay though, because someone who gets amazing grades at a really bad school in a really bad area is probably putting more effort into getting good grades & not being kicked in the face by the rest of the ghetto school than a preppy white kid at a prep school is.</p>
<p>but i just dont see why a white kid in a ghetto school should get less affirmative action than a black kid in a ghetto school.</p>
<p>plus, some black people make more money than white people, right? but they still get affirmative action whereas the white people are put into the 'majority of population pile'</p>
<p>last thing -- white people are the majority of the population in the US. so why try to ignore that in colleges? lame.lame.lame.</p>
<p>my guidance person told a black student at my school:</p>
<p>"you can add 200 points on to your SAT score because your black"</p>
<p>Just because someone listens to hip/hop and dresses and acts a certain way does not mean that they do not value an education. Yes, there is a majority of black people that avidly study that culture like it's a religion, but there are also many white people-yes white people- that do the same thing. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just because they are not in AP classes does not mean that they have no desire to be successful in life. There are plenty of white people that choose not to take AP classes too. That does not mean that they value sex, atheletics, and starting families over getting an education and becoming successful.
NEWS FLASH: People in lower level classes have goals too.</p>
<p>iin77 is in for a very rude awakening. Nearly everything that comes from your mouth is demeaning and extremely racist to minorities. And iin77 is not merely making generalizations, he's just enforcing stereotypes that have contributed to the very reason why AA must still exist.</p>
<p>Unlike blacks, the Jews and the Japanese were never slaves now were they?</p>
<p>Excuse me? </p>
<p>Unlike blacks, the Jews have had the majority of their population lost in gas chambers and ovens and have been persecuted for THOUSANDS of years by others.</p>
<p>Unlike blacks, the Japanese were put into concentration camps during WWII, and still face the only remaining publically acceptable racism; that against Asians.</p>
<p>But I digress. The point of affirmative action isn't to apologise. If it was the case, then every oppressed group on the planet would benefit from affirmative action. But who benefits? Those races with lower average intelligences and cultures which do not value learning.</p>
<p>Blueflame, you're making the mistake of personalisation. I deeply admire you for your value of education, but no more than any other person of any race.</p>
<p>If the liberals wanted true equality, then it would suffice to offer the same opportunities to people of all races. But liberals are the racist ones. Their elitist attitudes lead them to believe that it is their responsibility to take on the job of babysitting those who were not blessed with their "innate superiority". </p>
<p>Affirmative action is racism. Not reverse racism, not positive discrimination. It's racist against everyone.</p>
<p>Affirmitive Action, in my opinion, should be based more heavily on socioeconomic status and less on race. </p>
<p>^ well said about Jews and Asians. People especially tend to forget how much prejudice asians faced during the 20th century (and even still today...) And stereotypes of Jews as greedy, big-nosed liars still abound, unfortunately :-(</p>
<p>"Publically acceptable racism"? </p>
<p>Since when is any type of racism acceptable? </p>
<p>
Of course I'm going to take what you say personally. You're attacking me, my family, and "black culture" in general. </p>
<p>So what am I? The exception? You obviously know more about black people than black people know about themselves, so please, go on and tell me more about myself.</p>
<p>iin77 is the perfect example of why we need affirmative action in this society. He has very racist, very ignorant views about society; primarily due to lack of exposure to people of color. Perhaps his college education would be greatly supplemented by being exposed to educated black people.</p>
<p>Racism exists in this society, one only need read this thread for proof. Imagine iin77 or SaveD is an employer, an owner of a small business interviewing an applicant for a job. When the black applicant comes in, iin77 is quite likely to think "black people are interested in being athletic and having sex." Yet when the white candidate comes in, he is possibly more likely to think "he wants a real profession." Lets make sure iin77 and SaveD get a proper education exposed to people of all creeds and colors.</p>
<p>Oh, and as for hip-hop music? Quick question, what color skin does the the owner of the label distributing the music have?</p>
<p>Oh, also, you know what I hate?</p>
<p>Whenever opponents of affirmative action make their case for socio-economic affirmative action (which no one really opposes), they always compare a wealthy African-American family with a poor white one. That's not the right comparison. Compare a poor white kid with a poor black one and you'll see pretty clearly who has had the harder life. Hell, do the same with a rich white kid and a rich black one.</p>
<p>"Those races with lower average intelligences and cultures which do not value learning."
-SaveD</p>
<p>Once again, another person making disgusting generalizations. Oh, and please direct me to a respectable reference that says that Blacks/Hispanics have a lower intelligence than their non-minority counterparts. And, no, SATs don't count as many minorities score lower than their non-minority counterparts because of socioeconomic status. So, please find me that respectable reference.</p>
<p>Also,
<a href="http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf</a>
Look at the last page.</p>
<p>Several studies done on the subject are shown on both graphs. There's a clear trend. But that isn't my point anyway. I will, however, always provide information when asked.</p>
<p>blueflame, no, I'm not attacking you. I admire you, but like I said, no more than I would admire an excellent student of any other race. And yes. You are the exception. You also know you're the exception. If African American families who valued education were NOT the exception, affirmative action would not benefit African Americans. There are black people who do this, white people who do that, but let's not be ignorant: more black people do that than whites, and more whites do this than blacks. </p>
<p>Just Browsing, I resent your assertion. If a white candidate walked in, I would be thinking, prove to me you're the best guy for the job. If a black candidate walked in, I would be thinking, prove to me you're the best guy for the job. I'm not saying that by being black, someone is inherently destined to be academically unsuccessful. In fact, going with your example, my assertion is that GENERALLY, a black candidate wouldn't be walking into the office at all. And if one did, I sincerely doubt he would be involved with popular black culture. </p>
<p>You think I'm sheltered? You think I live in a hole and am never exposed to people of different cultures and beliefs? You are mistaken as mistaken gets. In fact, I was on the same boat as you when I went to a predominantly white private school. It was only when I went to public school, and was exposed to the various cultures of the "proletariat" that I came to the realisations which I now share with you.</p>
<p>Stop being so closed-minded. It's called empiricism, people, AKA I-calls-'em-as-I-sees-'em.</p>
<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:U...attergraph.png%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:U...attergraph.png</a></p>
<p>Several studies done on the subject are shown on the graph. There's a clear trend. But that isn't my point anyway. I will, however, always provide information when asked.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We can of course just ignore correlations between IQ and socioeconomic status. Not to mention the cultural biases of the white designers of the IQ test.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just Browsing, I resent your assertion. If a white candidate walked in, I would be thinking, prove to me you're the best guy for the job. If a black candidate walked in, I would be thinking, prove to me you're the best guy for the job. I'm not saying that by being black, someone is inherently destined to be academically unsuccessful.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's what you say you'd think. That's probably even what you think you'd think. But do you actually know what your subconscious would think in that situation? No, that's why its called a subconscious. </p>
<p>
[quote]
You think I'm sheltered? You think I live in a hole and am never exposed to people of different cultures and beliefs? You are mistaken as mistaken gets. In fact, I was on the same boat as you when I went to a private, predominantly white private school. It was only when I went to public school, and was exposed to the various cultures of the "proletariat" that I came to the realisations which I now share with you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What's the racial/ethnic makeup of your school?</p>