<p>Sometimes I feel its so unfair to have athletic recruits because they can get into the HYPS w/o the grades and those who work hard and have stellar test scores barely stand a shot b/c its a crapshoot for them. My one friend is always talking about how shes talking with coaches at Stanford and shes not a good student at all but it looks like they're gonna take her. I also know some guy whose such a slacker who got a full ride at another ivy and hes a c student!</p>
<p>I also feel afirmative action should be different. The one girl I mentioned is "hispanic" and also the richest person in my school. She'll get in w/ $ while some poor white kid won't.</p>
<p>I know too many hispanics who apply for af.action when they make more money than God and get full rides to top schools!! Why don't colleges look at income rather than just race!?</p>
<p>It's like they're saying "We don't expect as much out of you because you're black or hispanic, so we'll have lower standards, here come to our school" and then that student goes there and everyone says they only got in b/c of AA. </p>
<p>One could call that racism...AA if counterproductive and stupid! </p>
<p>Anyone with me!?</p>
1 Like
<p>I don't think anyone "applies" for AA.</p>
<p>Athletes recruited at that level probably work just as hard, if not more hard, than 4.0 students.</p>
<p>^ And a lot of recruited athletes are stellar students as well.</p>
<p>Yes.. The whole AA thing is unfair but I don't see that much unfairness with recruited athlete stuff. It is like being very stellar in a subject area. My friend who is a track athlete spends so much time in her practices (which is 2.5 hours a day, 6 days a week) and meets. It is a lot of time commitment, effort and work.. Most people cannot take that.</p>
<p>Hold up Buster. Despite whatever your definition of "fairness" is I think your argument has little premise. Your belief is that Stanford should admit the smartest, most accomplished students, without regard to athletic prowess or race. However, Stanford's mission is to admit the students who will most contribute to the school which often, but does not always, coincide with the smartest, most accomplished students. Buddy, if you knew anything about Stanford, you'd understand that Stanford is an athletic powerhouse and sports are a central part of Stanford. If they did not give the proverbial "bump" to student athletes, Stanford would lose an integral part of its culture. As for affirmative action, Stanford, its peers, and America has recognized that diversity is important for progress. If Stanford were to stop reaching out to multicultural students, Stanford would lag behind its peers and would lose respect. In conclusion, Stanford recruits athletes and practices Affirmative action to fulfill its goals, so in that sense it is "fair"-Stanford admits the applicants whom will help it reach its goals, it does not arbitrarily choose to admit or reject students. Your real anger with Stanford (and almost all elite private schools to be honest) is their perceived goals. Fortunately for you, if you don't agree with Stanford's goals, their are many excellent universities that do not share Stanford's goals (Berkeley doesn't practice AA for instance and Caltech could care less if you can throw a football).</p>
<p>Obviously you only know enough to be dangerous! The Ivy League has academic indexing. EVERY athlete must meet a minimum AI score and no C average student could make it. Ivy's use SAT I's, two - three SAT II's, the rank, and GPA to determine the score. There is no fudging. Also , there are no athletic scholarships to Ivy League schools, just the same FA that any other student can get. It is what it is period. My son is a recruited football player. He spent countless hours on practice, games, and camps. If all those hours were spent studying, all their GPA's could be higher. The average athlete at my sons college is 3.8 and the SAT is 1300 out of 1600. I am not sure about the SAT II average, but its around 650-700. Sparklingjuice is correct! These kids are getting credit for an area of excellence, so what!Coffeeaddict, it sounds like you have a serious case of sour grapes.</p>
<p>Well, to be fair Stanford isn't an Ivy league school so it isn't subject to those types of restrictions...In addition Stanford does award athletic scholarships, hence Stanford has a better sports program than the Ivies. But I do agree with the rest of your post happy4him.</p>
<p>Cervantes- I should have clearly stated that I was addressing her ref to HYP and the C student athlete with a full ride to the Ivy league. I do know that Stanford is not in the Ivy League Conf. and as such they follow the regular NCAA guidelines for D IA athletics. The 8 schools in the Ivy League are all on the east coast. :)</p>
<p>Diversity in all facets is what Stanford has built itself around. The school has every right to work to achieve its vision for its incoming classes. It's what makes Stanford unique from other highly selective schools.</p>
<p>Why are you SO IMPORTANT that an entire college should admit its class based on what you think it should be?</p>
<p>Exactly. its always bitter whites/asians that complain about AA or athletes when they don't get in. Stanford can give a **** about what you think. If you didn't get in, you have no one to blame but yourself. No one "stole" your spot. And this is coming from a white/asian.</p>
<p>No one like it when anyone has an edge. It's especially galling when you truly believe that universities are for academic excellence, and you have stats proving that excellence, and you find that it is only a part of the picture of which you don't have the other pieces. It is a tough situation with US schools since they want a diverse group of kids and only about 30% of the kids are admitted purely on academic excellence at many of the top schools. The rest have to have something in addition. Yes, it is unfair that legacy, development, diversity, athletics and special talents get an edge. Also unfair is when a school has a particular need at a particular time and gives leeway to those candidates who can fulfill that need. However, that is the way our admissions at elite colleges work.</p>
<p>I know the athletic recruiting isn't bad if the student has to have some kind of criteria met...and for the guy w/ a c average, i meant he got into an ivy caliber school (should have been more clear). that's why im peeved. He has no interest in school whatsoever yet gets to go there JUST for athletics, not for his intellect at all</p>
<p>and for AA, this person doesn't have a hispanic last name and could choose not to state shes hispanic when she barely is and it doesn;t affect he life at all,-she doens't look it, speak spanish, has never been to a spanish speaking country, let alone a foreign country, and I feel people like that can cheat the system --so what i meant in that i don't like the way AA is set up now..they should tweak it by looking at income and other things to make sure people such as her don't cheat the system and take the place of other qualified applicants, whether they be white, black, hispanic, asian, whatever. AA could be great and is necessary but it does not work the way those who thought of AA hoped for.</p>
<p>coffeeaddict, Are you for real? You are so pathetic... wha wha wha! </p>
<p>It makes me laugh when ignorant people like you wonder why you didn't get into a top college. Hmm, I wonder why.. ignorant! maybe your application wasn't as stellar as you thought it was? </p>
<p>Stop blaming and pointing the finger. Just accept the fact that you were not what they wanted. Maybe you should stop focusing on what others are getting away with and focus on making yourself a better person.. maybe it will reflect on your application :)</p>
<p>Why is at unfair that people with special talents get an edge? It's also not unfair that top universities do everything they can to insure diversity. If a student attends a highly diverse university, then they are going to benefit. Imagine this, it will be a place to challenge how you see life. It will broaden the person you are. You will have the ability to have your preconceived notions challenged and you will be more prepared for the real world. Elite schools are not intended to be the home of 2400's which some may define as academic excellence. They are looking for students of excellence who can make a difference in various aspects of life. These students do share academic excellence,have no doubt of that; but they offer more than just that. The schools don't penalize a brilliant musician for a slighly lower score in one area. They realize that people aren't perfect in everthing, but instead they seek people with diversity in talents, socio econmic status, and race. Life is not a level playing field and I commend them on recognizing that in their selections of their student body!</p>
<p>guitars, why do you assume i applied and was rejected by the colleges, im only a junior in high school...</p>
<p>and happy, you said things like "Elite schools don't penalize a brilliant musician for a slighly lower score in one area." i know that and think thats fine, but when they take C students and i mean all cs, thats pushing it.</p>
<p>And AA in itself is not horrible, of course i don't think that, but people cheat the system and thats what im upset about. Its wrong to cheat no matter what and when your parents can easily afford the school, you have a mansion, cabin up north, and beach house in Hawaii, you prob. shouldn't get a full ride because you're "Hispanic" and therefore automatically underprivileged. Its also demeaning to lower standards for grades for someone JUST because of their race...thats racism...thats like saying you must not be smart enought because you have mexican blood, so we'll let you in much easier than other students...</p>
<p>all i'm saying is that AA should not be JUST BASED ON RACE. They should look at income, what school you went to. etc. to determine if you really are a disadvantaged applicant because otherwise actual disadvantaged poor white kids who deserve finaid and some leniency dont get it because of the "hispanic" minority who goes to hawaii every winter break and summer yet still gets a full ride....</p>
<p>CoffeeAddict, You do not understand the financial aid system. All people get finacial aid based on FAFSA guidelines that document income and assets they are not based on being hispanic or black. You are misinfomed. AA does guarantee a certain realitively small number of spots to insure diversity. I will say what I've said on other posts, life is not an even playing field. I seriously doubt that if someone colud wave a magic wand over you that you would agree to be a minority for the miniscule advantage you may get from AA. You are the very person that needs to be exposed to more diversity, thank God there are many elite schools working in that direction. Try and look at things from another persons perspective. We could all use a bit more empathy. Unfortunately people tend to take the stand that if there is nothing in it for me, then its bad. I encourage you to broaden your views. It will serve you well in life! :)</p>
<p>coffeeaddict,</p>
<p>You apparently don't understand the college application process. My suggestion to you would be to investigate before making accusations that are not true. </p>
<p>Colleges have a graduation rate that is very important in their ranking system. They simply cannot accept a student only because they play a sport or is a minority without any regard to their grades. Colleges will not run the risk of lower their rating simply for a student to play a sport or because they are a minority. Too much is at stake at the school. </p>
<p>All high schools send in to the colleges along with the transcripts, guidance counselor letter etc. a "school profile" report. This report lists the median income, the the types of programs the schools offers, for example AP classes or IB program, the percentage of students on assisted lunch programs etc. Students should not be penalized simply because the school does not have the funds to provide these programs. Every applicant is reveiwed in comparison to themselves and whether the student took advantage of every opportunity their particular high school had to offer. </p>
<p>Colleges also have to protect their endowment. Many times the higher the endowment the more prestigious the college. Colleges are not simply going to give away their endowment without any type of what they would consider a return. It's just plain good business.</p>
<p>A student cannot get a "full ride" simply for being a minority if the family owns vacations home and has a million dollar house. the CSS profile and the FAFSA forms are sent to the colleges. They are not going to giveaway $ they don't have to. They need to protect their endowment. They know income and all assets the family has. </p>
<p>You talk about the special treatment for minorities and athletes, well what about the rich and famous who can afford to send their kids to any school, should those students get to go wherever they want? Where do you think the large endowments come from? </p>
<p>Please stop focusing on what other have or don't have and focus on making your application the best it can be. When you have all your facts correct you will see that it really is pretty fair. If a student doesn't get into a particular college or if a student does, I would bet that it had nothing to do with minority status. Colleges try to "round" out their classes with students who play music or students in drama or students in government. this is what makes for a successful school. Do you ever wonder why there are soooo many choices in classes? well, if everyone studied the same thing then you wouldn't have all the choices. </p>
<p>Best of luck, but please research first before accusations</p>
<p>Bro, my dad makes about 55k after income tax working for the government... i am not even applying for financial aid... and im a contradiction to your post... 4.0 PRE-MED (hopefully neurosurgery) athlete.. if i can maintain both, you certainly should not mock others... athletes are just as respectable as book nerds... and considering myself... im a little bit of both... not my fault i have such an innate nature in both fields... and you know what, im not even applying for any DIV 1 team, im just proving to you an athlete can get in... and im INDIAN... on top of that stanford does not have a boxing team LMFAO... and thats one of the sports i focus on, aside from basketball (MVP) and others...</p>
<p>So, yah so what if an athlete gets recruited, they are there to support a specific program offered by the university, so they can get noticed by the right people... on top of that, the university will be using them as human advertisements for future top athletes so they can be known as a university who has great athletic+stellar academics... That is stanford... if your not a team player, your not a player for stanford...</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, did anyone notice the SCEA stanford 2012 decision thread... it seems stanford really loves their domestic californian residents (THANK GOD I WAS BORN AND RAISED THERE!!)... that is something you can call out OP... because i think statistically speaking, stanford loves getting students from their own state... thats the only main bias ive seen from them, and it works for me LOL :P</p>