I hate this Ivy League bullcrap. I just can't do it.

<p>I would also suggest taking a semester or even a year off. Yes you will have to work to support yourself, but that's not any different from what you're doing now. At the very least, it gives you a chance to not worry about paying for college for a while (assuming you don't have loans earning interest). Maybe you could even save some so that things won't be quite so stressful when you go back.</p>

<p>Take a year off and save up, prioritize.</p>

<p>To those who think this person just whines: Try losing your father, working 80 hours a week, working 30 hours a week with 4-5 classes at Penn, everyday having to worry about finances while academics are a second priority, having no family support for finances, let alone even basic support. </p>

<p>Just try to move on and work hard in life man. Good luck</p>

<p>Thanks for the kind replies, everyone.</p>

<p>That other guy is an obvious troll. If you take a quick glance at his past posts, you can see he brings that kind of attitude wherever he goes. Not worth listening to.</p>

<p>Having gone to Harvard after growing up in a small town, I empathize with you. I was miserable my first couple of years there. And, yes, I did have to work to help pay my way. That included my working during the school year, and working up to 60 hours a week during the summer.</p>

<p>I strongly suggest that when you return to school you get some counseling as there's a chance that you're depressed, which is something that I was experiencing in college though I didn't realize it.</p>

<p>Depression also causes one to notice the negatives while not noticing the positives of a situation. For instance, I highly doubt that everyone in Wharton is well off or is looking down at you. In fact, I know a current Wharton student who comes from a low income family.</p>

<p>Before you make such a drastic decision as to transfer, I suggest counseling and even possibly taking a year off, which would help you get a wider perspective on your concerns.</p>

<p>While going to Harvard was difficult for me in that I often felt like a hick around so many sophisticated well traveled students, I am glad that I stuck it out because what I learned there -- particularly from being around my peers -- has helped me for the rest of my life know how to fit into almost any group.</p>

<p>One last thing: The students who are insensitive about your lack of money are unsophisticated themselves. They've grown up with silver spoons and have probably never been around any peer whose parents couldn't give them everything they wanted. Those students aren't mean, just ignorant about most of the world. </p>

<p>I facilitate a lot of youth leadership groups now and include a segment on economic diversity. It is amazing how many affluent teens have no friends who lack lots of money, and also the same teens have never realized that some families lack health insurance, and money to pay for other basics including food. One affluent teen who took a recent program that I facilitated had tears in his eyes when he realized that some students in our own city are homeless, and there are school children whose only meal may be the school lunch that he has made fun of.</p>

<p>Best to you.</p>

<p>taking a year off just to work and save some money sounds like a good idea. if you're already stressed and tired and burnt out, there's just no way you're going to be able to force yourself to work harder. you can also try taking less credits as you work. it might cost more in the long run, but if you can manage to pay it all off as you work now, it can probably help you stay sane and give you some time to rest. good luck.</p>

<p>I also am wondering about this: "ow it's like a complete 180-degree turn. My GPA and grades are absolutely awful. I have no time to pursue intellectual desires because I spend all my time working to make ends meet. "</p>

<p>What are your grades? I am guessing that you're being very hard on yourself. No matter what one's background is, it's unlikely that when one attends one of the toughest universities in the country, one is going to have the same grades that one did in high school. Of course, if one has to work, too, while in school, that will add to the difficulty of getting a 4.0 average.</p>

<p>Yet, very honesty, one could graduate as a "C" student from Wharton and still have the world at one's feet at graduation. Your work experience also will help you.</p>

<p>More than likely, too, as one becomes more used to college, and perhaps even gets jobs that fit better into one's academic schedule, your grades will improve. </p>

<p>If you also didn't go to a high school that was one of the nation's top high schools, you are having to play catch-up at Wharton with the students who went to places like prep schools. That you achieved high scores despite going to a place like Andover or a highly competitive public school says a lot about your natural intelligence, which may be far higher than that of students who had parents who sent them to expensive prep schools and paid for SAT tutors.</p>

<p>So don't put yourself down. Take some time off if necessary, but do have faith in yourself. </p>

<p>Best to you.</p>

<p>Have you tried counseling? I'm sure Penn has some counselors who you can talk to free of charge.</p>

<p>legend, my parents sent me to an expensive prep school, and I was one of the poorer kids in my class. My parents paid to house me, feed me, clothe me educate me, etc., and I took responsibility for providing my own money for incidentals -- and the kids in my class had a hard time grasping what it was like not to have hundreds handed to you every week. (This was awhile back.)</p>

<p>I looked at a future similar to your present, except that I would have been better off financially than you are, and I jumped ship. I made sure with my submission material that the Ivies I applied to would not take me (which is not to say that they would have if I'd attempted to get in, of course), and I applied to only one other school -- a state university in a state that was despised by everyone around me. They had a formula for guaranteed admission, and I knew I could get in.</p>

<p>I got an education the equal of any I could have gotten from the Ivies, and I wasn't surrounded by people like my college classmates (about a third of the class every year went to one Ivy or another, and I considered that to be a bad sign). And yes, every so often I wonder how my life would be if I'd gone to an Ivy League school ... but I'm pretty sure that by my standards it wouldn't be better.</p>

<p>If you want out, get out. If you want help figuring out how to improve your situation where you are, what kind of help are you looking for? If you just want to be heard, there are those of us out here who have a pretty good idea of how you feel.</p>

<p>And I am very sorry about your father's death. Mine died after I left home, but still before I had the chance to have an adult relationship with him, and I still wish I had had that. The rest of the family isn't much interested in knowing me, and I'm okay with that too. It gets better. Not as fast as one would like, but it does get better.</p>

<p>Hey Max,</p>

<p>I remember you from 2005, when we were all applying for colleges. I'm really sorry to hear about your situation and the difficulty at Penn. Let me say this--I'm also going to an Ivy, and while my financial situation is not nearly as difficult as your's, I face some of the same doubts and annoyances that you do about grades. I came in feeling that I was at the top of the applicant pile, and when college was tougher than I expected, things seemed terrible.</p>

<p>My point is that it may help you to separate the reason that you are having your problems. I have no doubt that your financial situation and your workload are a big source of stress in your life. Do what you can to fix those. But, at the same time, realize that your anguish may come from other situations as well. Take care of yourself in many ways--not only in finances, but also physically and emotionally if you can.</p>

<p>Go to your financial aid office and talk to a counselor to see what can be done. I know that this sounds easier than it is, but if you show them how stressed you are (maybe go to the school doctor and get a note of some symptoms of your stress), they may be willing to consider more aid. Also, I second everyone who has said, take a year off. You can get a pretty OK job living on your own, and if you are in a cheap area, you can also find some time to recuperate. Maybe you can move in with your mom and keep a job on the side to contribute to the family pot. I don't know your situation, but consider taking some time off.</p>

<p>Lastly, don't beat up on yourself. I have felt that I have low grades at my Ivy, but in reality, the fact is is that many Ivy League schools are tough...people know this. And, of course, with your jobs, most employers will recognize that you are working much harder than others and are facing more constraints. Take a few deep breaths. Center yourself. Find out what you want, divide it into baby steps, and then go one step at a time.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>Transfer. ASAP. This has been, all in all, a positive experience for you. Why? Because you've learned many, many things about yourself that you didn't know before. Now that you know these things, you can transfer to a place that suits you better (maybe an honors program at a good school that will give you lots of money). So do it. Now.</p>

<p>Some good advice here. I truly think that Penn is not exceptional in this regard, and you are likely to see this situation in many, many schools. The problem with transferring is that transfers often do not get the same shots at good FA packages and OP states is grades at Penn are less than stellar. This may be the best option for him.</p>

<p>Get on your computer tonight and do a little research on public universities in your state. Also check out a few lower tier privates. Transferring can be a wonderful solution---new surroundings, new student body, a new beginning.</p>

<p>just to to penn state. That place is a blast on game days and weekends.</p>

<p>Legend,
I checked your previous threads and noticed that U Penn. wanted you so badly that they gave you a much better financial aid package than might have been expected considering the insurance money your mom got after your dad died. U Penn seems to have a lot of confidence in your abilities.</p>

<p>My own experience -- personally and as a Harvard alum interviewer -- is that places like Ivies don't accept students who lack the ability to succeed in their colleges. Due to differences in educational and family backgrounds, not everyone would be able to enter and get a 4.0, but everyone is bright enough to be able to graduate. And, with an Ivy undergrad education under the belts, even students who had to play catch-up and then graduated with relatively unimpressive gpas may go on to top grad/professional schools and graduate at the top of their class, which is what some of my friends did.</p>

<p>So, please have faith in yourself. Consider getting counseling, taking a year off and talking to your dean about your concerns.</p>

<p>Places like Penn want to keep their students, so don't transfer to a less competitive school before talking with someone like your dean, who can give you a broader perspective on the challenges you've faced, and how you fit in at Penn.</p>

<p>Thing is, with my GPA (I'm currently a Wharton student with close to a 3.0, and it might be in danger of going under that threshold if I don't improve any), I don't know if I could get into a good graduate school. Transferring at this point would probably not work, as I am going to be a senior.</p>

<p>Legend probably isn't, and shouldn't, considering transferring schools. He's going to be a senior in the fall. Transferring to another school, where he might need to take longer to graduate depending on how credits transfer, would mean having already taken out a thousands in debt for a Penn/Wharton degree and ending up with much less prestigious degree. It's not worth it at this point.</p>

<p>Legend, I'm sorry for your loss and now realize why you dislike our school so much. I hope you like your senior year more than you have enjoyed you first three years at Penn. What you need to try to do is ignore our peers who have a ton of money. It's hard to do, but not everyone at our school is super rich. Lots are receiving financial aid or taking out big loans to be here. They aren't spending money like it's their job and they don't take amazing vacations during the year. I really hope you have a fun senior year and walk at graduation in May.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>I guess my problem is that most of the people I meet here at Penn <em>aren't</em> on financial aid, and the ones that are don't need nearly as <em>much</em> aid as I do. I have yet to find someone who has to support their own costs to the same extent. It just feels like everyone I meet has all this support and I wish I had it.</p>

<p>Nothing worth getting is easy.</p>

<p>Don't get hung up on it. Seriously.</p>

<p>A 3.0 isn't what I'd call terrible. If you're able to communicate the challenges you've faced during interviews (without making it a sob story), I'm sure you'll be able to land a nice job.</p>

<p>Legend,
Yes, it would be wonderful if you had more support. However, you still are getting the opportunity of a lifetime, far beyond what most students in your financial situation get. When I taught at a 2nd/3rd tier public, I had brilliant students who were carrying $30-$40 k in loans plus working as much as 30 hours a week during the school year. Some of them also were hurt by insensitive comments by students from affluent backgrounds, but the low income students weren't getting the payoff of the kind contacts and stellar education that you're getting.</p>

<p>Because of the advantages of going to a place like Wharton, you'll be able to give your kids an easier life than you're having.</p>

<p>Incidentally, it's not just places like Wharton that have lots of affluent students. The second tier public in my city has an abundance of high income students driving sports cars, carrying designer purses, paying thousands to live in Greek houses, etc. Don't think that if you transfer, you'll be surrounded by students with your kind of economic concerns.</p>

<p>Frankly, I've found that the students in the public institutions that I've been involved with to be less sensitive about challenges facing low income people than was the case at Harvard where I went to college. The affluent students at public schools also seemed to flaunt their money more. At Harvard, students tended to be more impressed by brains and talent than by family income. That wasn't the case at the 2nd and 3rd tier publics that I have been involved with. Money, beauty, athleticism and being able to hold one's liquor seemed to be what was most admired at the public institutions.</p>

<p>I'm sure that's not the case with all public institutions, but certainly was the case at the 2nd and 3rd tier publics that I've taught at and taken classes at.</p>