i have no idea so plz help

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>is it easier to get into a college/conservatory if you're pursuing a joint-degree?
like if u get into juilliard, r u likely to get into columbia or vice versa?</p>

<p>also, my repertoire would be
1. #1 prelude and fugue from well tempered clavier by Bach
2. Pathetique Sonata by Beethoven
3. Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin or Liebestraum #3 by Liszt
4a. Revolutionary Etude by Chopin
4b. La Campanella by Liszt
5. suggestions?</p>

<p>i got time so can u give me advice on acceptable pieces?
thanks</p>

2

<p>There have been several threads about dual/degrees, so I’m sure that someone will post links and others will contribute rep ideas.
But, I have to mention something about grammar,etc. This is not a cell phone, so please use full words, not text shorthand, and remember to use capital letters for proper nouns (such as “Julliard”-the school would no doubt appreciate being thus respected). You are posing questions to adults, for the most part, and we will respond in kind, using full sentences and words. There are several admissions reps who look around on these boards, so you always want to present yourself in the best possible light.</p>

3

<p>I do not have any statistics to back this up, but my gut feeling is that being accepted to Juilliard will not make you any more likely to be accepted by Columbia, or vice versa. Do the schools even know that you are interested in that particular joint program at the time that the admissions decisions are made, or is admission to that program only considered after a student has successfully applied to each school independently? </p>

<p>There may be situations at schools are that are much more closely coupled where acceptance into one makes acceptance into the other a little easier, but it would still be on a case-by-case basis. For example, if you were to be accepted by Oberlin Conservatory, there is a back door method that allows you to enter the double degree program with Oberlin College in the second year of the five year program. The admission rate to the College for students who seek to do this is much higher than the admission rate for new freshmen or for transfers. Going in the other direction (College to double degree with the Conservatory) carries little or no advantage because you still have to audition to the same standards as the incoming freshman class. </p>

<p>This is not the case at all schools, however. For another example, it is very possible to be accepted separately to both Johns Hopkins and to Peabody, but to be rejected from their dual degree program.</p>

<p>I can’t help you with repertoire other than to advise you to read each school’s published requirements for audition pieces very carefully and make sure that what you plan to play meets those requirements. Perhaps some of the keyboard players or their parents can comment on how those particular pieces might be received at a school at the level of Juilliard.</p>

<p>Also, I agree with what Mezzo’sMama says about the use of language. This is a good place to practice presenting yourself as you would in a college interview. There are indeed college admissions officers who either participate in this forum or who read it regularly. Should you audition for their school, it may be possible for them to identify you from your choice of user name and repertoire, so why not put your best foot forward?</p>

4

<p>Sage advice in the two posts preceding. </p>

<p>Audition based standards are not lowered because of academic excellence. From a music degree admittance standpoint in some instances an exceptional audition will tilt or sway an admit with weak(er) academic stats than the “normal” threshold. In other programs it won’t.</p>

<p>Scanning your prior posts, your list is Ivy top heavy. If a performance BM is your goal, none of the Ivys offer a true performance degree, most are BA’s centered around the music academic disciplines. </p>

<p>If you wish to further develop your talent any number of programs would work. </p>

<p>Any audition based rep will be school specific, and selections (or options) if allowed should be done in conjunction with your private instructor. For supplements and nebulous rep parameters, the same applies. You want your highest levels that show your skills and talents within the competitiveness of the audition pool. The common wisdom is to nail a less demanding piece rather than struggle through a selection that you are not quite ready for. </p>

<p>If you are looking at an admittance boost from your music in a non audition based program, I suggest you read this <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/738525-how-strong-music-ec.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/738525-how-strong-music-ec.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If you are contemplating a dual pursuit, start here</p>

<p>[Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>Double Degree | Peabody Institute)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If you do an advanced title search within the music forum, use “double major”, “music and”,
“dual degree”, “joint programs” as separate keyword searches. Use the quotes. Search by title, not posts, and display the results as threads, not posts. Plenty of background reading will appear.</p>

<p>Here’s one to get you started <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/476176-joint-programs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/476176-joint-programs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Do yourself a favor. Stay out of the chances threads. There is little there that may help you, and lots to make you crazy. And if you do intend to apply at audition based programs, you will get no help there. </p>

<p>The intricacies of Ivy level academic admits can be akin to entrail reading or rune casting.</p>

<p>And any audition is a crapshoot.</p>

<p>Choose your schools wisely, and know thy safeties.</p>

5

<p>You have been given good advice regarding the joint degree. Some comments on your repertoire question.</p>

<p>Your teacher is in the best position to comment on the appropriateness of your repertoire. If you do not have a teacher that can comment on the appropriateness of your repertoire, then you should find one that can (pronto). </p>

<p>As well, you should take at least a couple of trial lessons from teachers at the schools to which you intend to apply. They could also give you advice on your repertoire selection and on whether their schools are appropriate for you. This would be time and money well-spent. As you mention, you have plenty of time to select and learn new repertoire.</p>

<p>As to your specific repertoire:
a) Which book is your Bach from: Book 1 or Book 2? The lack of the book listing is a small clue/suggestion that your background may not be substantial enough for major conservatories, but perhaps this was just an oversight. The #1’s from both books are definitely on the short and easy side and the Book 1 #1 is definitely in the overplayed “best hits” list. It is okay to have one repertoire selection on that is somewhat shorter or easier, but you need to be aware that it is and ensure that the rest of your audition program gives you opportunity to demonstrate prowess.
b) All of the other listed repertoire is from the overplayed “best hits” list. Again it is okay to play some repertoire that is frequently played, if you can play it exceptionally well. I would not send a student into an audition with your list: most of the panel will probably cringe upon seeing the list before they have even seen or heard you. You may be a substantial enough talent to overcome the panel’s initial reaction to your list, but if you are not, then you face an uphill battle. I would recommend choosing a couple of selections that are somewhat off the beaten path and that have not already been ruined quite so many times for the auditioning panel.</p>

<p>Without hearing what you personally do with the repertoire, it is not possible to give a definitive opinion on its suitability. While the difficulty level seems acceptable (with the minor concern about the Bach), the list taken as a whole seems to reflect a populist indiscriminate taste rather than a mature finely-honed appreciation for classical music.</p>

6

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<p>No…those dual degree programs are highly competitive and one must be accepted to both programs. Most take a limited number of students per year.</p>

7

<p>Many who are accepted to both schools participating in a joint program (Harvard and NEC are another example) , are not accepted into the joint program itself.</p>

<p>In other words, getting in to both Harvard and NEC does not guarantee a spot in the joint program, and only very, very few are admitted to the joint program, at least at first.</p>

<p>I don’t know for sure but would assume the same is true of Juilliard and Columbia.</p>

<p>I am assuming you know how hard it is to get into Juilliard…</p>

<p>If you posted the way you did, because you are in a hurry, maybe take some time to rewrite it…I have teenagers and understand, but the impression would be much better and therefore draw you more help.</p>

8

<p>The so called joint program between Juilliard and Columbia is sort of a pseudo joint program (the brother of a friend of my son’s did it). Basically, if I understand it correctly, you get your Bachelors from Columbia, and take lessons at Juilliard, and then you move on to get an MM at Juilliard. In any event, it is not likely going to make getting into either program easier, and you have to meet criteria on both ends, academic at Columbia, musically at Juilliard, and they don’t make it easy, period (coordinating I hear is a real heartache). If your goal is to get a music degree and a bachellors in another field, you may be better off from what i see with a program like Bard or Oberlin or Rice that require or allow dual degrees (such as a BM and BA), or maybe an LAC music program.</p>

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<p>I would say, from what I’ve seen, that playing an instrument at the caliber of a student who is accepted at Juilliard - and demonstrating that ability on your application - is a decided boost to an application to Columbia, Yale, Harvard, and a few other schools, who like to have strong musicians as part of their mix of students.<br>
This is assuming a very strong GPA and test scores, too. Such schools are so competitive for admissions that outstanding musical ability and experience may push you over the top in what may otherwise seem like a crapshoot. I’ve seen it happen many times. But strong academics are not much, if any, boost to admittance into Juilliard (though very poor academics might be somewhat of a negative - they ask for a recommendation from an English teacher).<br>
On the other hand, it is not uncommon, judging from posts on CC, to be admitted to both Harvard and NEC or Juilliard and Columbia and NOT into the dual degree program. On the other other hand, some students who are admitted to both but not the dual degree program can get lessons privately - so a Columbia student who, say, was in Juilliard prep and has a teacher who agrees to continue lessons, can even get a subsidy for those lessons from Columbia if they audition for funding and are successful. That doesn’t guarantee by any means that they will eventually be able to audition successfully for the MM program at Juilliard - the students I’ve known of in this situation were not successful at doing so.</p>

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<p>this is what I found for Juilliard - work with your teacher for a more varied repertoire than the one you propose - avoid playing 2 pieces by Liszt or Chopin:

  1. Bach
    a. Undergraduates: A prelude and fugue from The Well-Tempered
    Clavier or another work containing a fugue. (No transcriptions
    permitted.)
  2. One of the following:
    a. An entire sonata by Beethoven (excluding Opp. 14, 49, and 79), or
    b. One of the following Haydn sonatas: Hob. 20, 23, 32, 46, 49, 50,
    52, or
    c. One of the following Mozart sonatas: K. 281, 284, 310, 332, 333,
    457, 533, or 576, or
    d. One of the following Schubert sonatas: D. 568, 664, 784, 845,
    850, 894, 958, 959, 960, or the Wanderer Fantasie, D. 760.
  3. A substantial composition by Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, or
    Mendelssohn. (Etudes, nocturnes, short dances, waltzes, or
    comparable pieces are not acceptable.)
  4. Two virtuosic etudes:
    a. one by Chopin, and
    b. one by Bart</p>
11

<p>Good advice already given. To echo: the audition to a conservatory (including ours) isn’t swayed by the student’s academics, or their ambition in applying to the joint program. If you can play, you can play. However, outstanding achievement in music contributes to a picture of well-roundedness that can make you more attractive to a highly selective, academically rigorous college/university. In some cases it does put some applicants over the finish line. (But we’re talking outstanding achievement in music–concertmaster of your HS orchestra and an award at state solo and ensemble competition is not sufficient).</p>

<p>Just wanted to report one piece of a conversation I had with my counterpart at Juilliard on this topic: you absolutely MUST tell both schools you are applying to the joint program. There is a specific box to “tick” on the app. If you don’t you are not considered for the program. I was told there was a case a few years back where someone applied to Columbia and was admitted ED, auditioned and was accepted to Juilliard RD, and assumed all was well. Turns out, this individual didn’t follow procedure, wasn’t admitted to the joint program (didn’t actually apply, and by then it was too late), and was “stuck” with the Columbia admit and could not accept the Juilliard offer. I think a lot of people out there would love to be forced to attend Columbia, but you can guess at the drama that ensued from this situation. </p>

<p>So if you’re going to apply to this or other joint programs, read very very very very very carefully all of the fine print–especially if it’s an application between two completely different institutions, with different offices of admission, different workplace cultures, etc. Stuff like this can and does happen, all the time, and it breaks our hearts as much as it does yours.</p>

<p>It’s very tough–by the time you finally figure out how to apply to school, it’s May of your senior year, and all the accumulated skills are never to be used again (grad school apps being so totally different anyway). Good thing we have places like CC!</p>

12

<p>Academics can help a school make a decision when two applicants are relatively equal on all other levels…</p>