<p>I find it extraordinary and sad at the same time that kids seem to know their classmates' GPA (to the hundreths place), ranking and SAT scores. Are these things posted at your schools or is this just what the kids talk about all the time? Do the parents talk about it too? Does this happen at most schools, all schools, or only the schools whose kids post on CC? On the board for the school to which my son has applied ED a student even posted the names of the kids in his class with their stats. Fortunately, another student called him on it-- but what a breach of basic privacy and etiquette. </p>
<p>Last year I came to CC late in the season and was shocked to see threads like- "Class of 2008...what are your stats?" What a perverse first contact with your potential classmates, friends, lovers, etc! Now I see that it is not all that surprising because some of the kids seem to have entire section of their memory dedicated to this. Makes it hard for me to understand how they get past all this to really be friends, lab partners, confidantes, etc. </p>
<p>Honestly, has this just become the norm and it has all passed me by during my prolonged hiatus in another hemisphere? If so, how sad, really.</p>
<p>At least we care about college and our futures. Unlike half of my old high school where there were like 15 girls with babies and every other person was doing drugs and really have nothing to look forward to.</p>
<p>My S does not even know his GPA or class rank, let alone that of his friends. He does not know where some of his close friends are applying to "because we have more interesting things to talk about." He may be particularly oblivious, but I recall that his brother did not know those bits of information either.<br>
The flip side to this lack of emphasis on grades, SATs, etc... at our school may be that some students lack awareness of their role in the admission process. I met a father who is deeply involved in his son's education but, being a foreigner, is not familiar with the admission process. He did not know that he should sign up his sons to take SATs as well as SAT-IIs. That was the spring of his son's junior year.
There must be a happy medium.</p>
<p>My daughter knows the sat scores of exactly one other person in her grade, a girl whom she expected to have roughly the same scores as her own. So they compared. Otherwise, she doesn't discuss sat scores with anybody and doesn't know anyone's gpa. She knows her stats are pretty high and so doesn't ask anyone else what theirs is and hasn't mentioned that anybody has asked her. The only exception to this was two years ago, when one kid showed up to take the SATII in US history and at the last minute decided he'd rather take the one in world history instead and got an 800. THAT got around the school. For context, this is a parochial college prep school where everyone will be going to college. But the kids rarely even discuss where they will be applying. She does tend to know who has flunked a test, since the flunkers share that information without being asked. I agree with you that all the posts that start, "I'm applying to such & such; if you are too what are your stats?" are more than a tad offputting.</p>
<p>My daughter went to a school that does not rank and did not know her GPA until it came time to apply for school. She is a very private person and does not talk about grades nor does she ever ask anyone about their grades (because she personally finds it to be rude and offensive). We have talked about the the fact that there are no majoc numbers because there is more than one way to measure intelligence abd your whole life should not hinge oh how you "performed on a 3 hour test". She never talked about where she was applying and when she got accepted, she only told her closest friends.</p>
<p>She was very turned off by the whole grade thing because most of some of her best friends are asian, and she heard them tell her first hand about the flack they caught over grades. One friend in particular (I will call her Jane), had been going to "cram school" (to drill for various standardized exams) ever since they were in 6th grade and went through all of the ups and downs with Jane when she took the test for Stuyvesant twice and did not get in (her parents expressed thier disappointment for weeks). When not get accepted to an "Ivy" school or NYU Stern (where her brother attended) her parents literally pused her into a Pharm D. program in the hopes that she could be redeemed.</p>
<p>This is not the norm at our school either. I venture to say my D did not know anyone's grades, GPA, SAT scores, or rank. It was not a topic of conversation. She did not share hers either. I think she knew where a few kids were applying to college who she was friends with. I think in the latter half of senior year, other kids figured out that my D was ranked first in the class but it was not some "competition" type atmosphere and to the contrary, I have seen kids write on birthday cards or in yearbook type things how they were very happy that she achieved that honor, or in other words, supported her in that regard. But overall, I know they never discussed grades or GPA or SAT scores. I doubt anyone knows my D's or she does not know theirs. I think close to graduation, she knew who was ranked 1, 2, 3 only because this kind of information might come out in terms of who is speaking at graduation (val and sal give speeches). </p>
<p>When I first found CC and read the posts and have shown my D the website, she could not believe the student posts on here. She could NOT relate at ALL. She could not relate to the posting of stats or anything of that nature, as Roby has written above. She could not relate to the focus on "elite school or bust" either. I also agree with Roby that I don't get the posts from kids once they are admitted to X college, wanting to know the stats of the other kids also admitted. </p>
<p>The "competitive" atmosphere just does not exist in our community and is very different from what I read on the student forums here. So, no, this college "stuff" does not get in the way of friendships or anything of that sort. </p>
<p>By the same token, I realize that it is different in other communities based on what I read here and also knowing people who live in a different type of place than we do. To be quite honest, I am glad I live here and am not immersed in that culture. It seems a bit much to me. </p>
<p>I like CC, in part, because I can talk about college admissions issues with others on here, as I don't at all at home. </p>
<p>It's scary, isn't it? Robyrm, I wonder if our son's are ED to the same school since I saw that situation, as you describe, recently on the board for this particular school. At least I hope it's the same school and this isn't happening across various boards.</p>
<p>Son's school has a clear policy against ranking, calculating GPAs, giving awards, etc (basically, anything that would separate the students is against the policy). My son has never calculated his GPA and doesn't know what it is. I do, only because I had to do it for independent scholarships.</p>
<p>The whole "stats" thing rubs me the wrong way. I worry about next year when he arrives on campus. Because of the culture of his high-school, I think he's in for a rude awakening about how competitive many of the kids will be and I know he's not going to like it. And, being that he's black, I worry that he'll be especially targeted for questions about his stats in some attempt to prove that he was "tipped" by his race without being qualified. I'm just really glad that his scores are higher than most of the kids I see on the ED school's CC threads and he can answer the question (not sure if he would, though - or maybe he'll say something like 1050 just to stir things up) without proving some bully's point about AA. Lots of the CC kids seem to carry a big chip about that issue which is probably an extension of their hysteria about stats and admissions (obsessing about anything that might keep them out, including URMs)</p>
<p>Then again, I don't think we can judge too much by what we see on CC....especially from the kids. The kids who log onto CC day after day, freaking out about their scores and such, are probably not representative of the "average" student on any campus....at least I hope!!</p>
<p>The kids all know who's made all A's because they publish the honor roll list, although I doubt any of them know their exact GPA because of the way the school weights grades. By senior year they know their rank, and word gets around. They publish 800 SAT and 36 ACT scores in the school paper. The school publishes the top 25 rank at the end of the year. They usually know each other's SAT scores too. However, none of this seems to be done in a competitive way; they talk about it in a very casual way and are happy for each other. They even tutor each other for classes and SAT's. </p>
<p>The top 3 or 4 students do seem to micromanage their schedules to stay at the top, but the rest of them don't seem to care. The kids seem to only care about their own grades and not about comparing themselves to everyone else. Our school has so many very bright students that being in the top 25 is not much different than being in the top 50. </p>
<p>Parents occasionally ask about rank and scores, and I just say my boys are doing well. No one pushes for information.</p>
<p>I don't think any one at college will care about HS grades or scores.</p>
<p>both my daughters schools print honor roll lists. THe private school didn't weight but there were no AP classes, only a few honors and few electives so everyone was taking bascially the same schedule. The lists of Nat merit is published in the city paper.thin
She did request what rank she was for a scholarship that wanted it, but what she had to tell them was her school didn't rank, and gave her GPA.
Her class only had 18 in it, and I couldn't really guess where she fell.</p>
<p>My son's school gave out dorm privileges according to GPA---as in, you could skip Saturday study hall if you had an 85 average and skip Sunday study hall too if you had a 90 average, so everyone knew the boarders' grades. They also were very open about class rankings, and didn't weight grades. My D's school announced and awarded the honor roll (B+ or better average) and high honor roll (A- or better, no grades ever below A-)--also study hall and other dorm privileges. National Merit semi and commended were announced at both schools, and also published in the local papers.</p>
<p>Neither kid would discuss their SAT scores with friends, however.</p>
<p>True, Honor Rolls are in the local paper. Here, there are no weighted grades and thus often kids on honor rolls can be kids in the easiest classes and sometimes the very top students in the class in terms of academics are not on these lists. Still, that is not the same as GPA, SAT, or rank being known. </p>
<p>Momsdream...I would not worry too much about how it will be in college amongst such students. My D is at Brown and she says the kids are "brilliant" and most she knows even went to prep schools (she did not) but it is NOT competitive, and in fact, kids help each other on projects/papers, discuss topics from class and so forth. I highly doubt anyone has mentioned their SAT scores or class rank and such. I feel certain my D would not have shared that she was val back home or anything like that. Mostly, she would have shared she went to a public school or it was fairly small or rural. Her friends from home are not at similar types of colleges as her college pals' home friends attend either. Her roomie has six classmates from her very small private prep school in the freshman class at Brown. I don't know what Penn would be like in this regard but at least at Brown, I would say none of this stats stuff or competitive stuff is going on from what I could tell and in fact, appears to be quite the opposite atmosphere. </p>
<p>She also says kids work hard but also know how to have fun. I am glad that she has learned to build in social fun times while still staying a very hard worker on her academics. The atmosphere there has been pretty perfect so far for her. </p>
<p>I think that the most competitive kids and parents keep track of such info. Such info probably also inspires them to do their best.</p>
<p>More laid back kids like mine have no clue about their own class rank or test scores. He says his friends (some of whom I know must be among the top students in the class) don't talk about such things. </p>
<p>Given a choice between students whose obsession is academic stats and those whose obsessions are designer clothes, drugs, fancy cars, sex escapades, or similar things, I'd choose the former.</p>
<p>At my children's school, kids in the honors program take the PSATs in 10th grade - they received their score reports in English class and yes, there was lots of comparing of scores. </p>
<p>My daughter does seem to know who among her friends have A's or B's or C's in which classes but I don't think she has any idea of their actual GPA's. </p>
<p>The honor roll is divided into low honor roll (3.6) and high honor roll (3.8 and above) and results are published and a huge awards ceremony is held each year. Very few people make either honor roll - about 30 out of 375 students in her grade last year made low honor roll, 15 or so were on high honor roll, so everyone is well aware of who the "top" students are and what their approximate GPAs are.</p>
<p>The only time we knew what anyones score was when my daughter and her best friend took the SAT in 7th and 6th grade respectively thru CTY. She didn't study, it was solely for teh experience when it "didn't count". Her friend scored upwards of 1400 if I remember right, my D thought she scored that high as well, but I had to tell her "no, take about 400 off of that !" ;)</p>
<p>Well, it's a bit much knowing GPA's to various decimal points, but the kids at our high school do know their ranking, as it is on the report card.</p>
<p>While anxiety and comparisons over the SATs is a problem, I have no problem with honor rolls and ranking. Our town gives a good 10-12 FULL pages of newspaper space to sports teams EVERY WEEK, and only ONCE A QUARTER they publish the honor roll, and once a year an article on the kids who graduate in the top ten, along with academic awards given to graduating seniors.</p>
<p>In fact, I would prefer MORE respect for, and coverage of, academic achievement rather than less....it would put things into perspective in our sports-hysterical world.</p>
<p>My D's situation in HS was similar to that of Carolyn's above. I need to play Devil's Advocate here. I think it is okay for the kids to discuss each others GPA's. It assists them in understanding where they fall in the whole scheme of college choices. My D found out she was in top 6, but the difference between 1 and 6 was minuscule...though lower ranked kids had much better SAT scores. She realized that she was up there because she had worked VERY VERY hard and not that she was innately gifted. It was a hard bullet to bite...realizing the better schools would not take her by virtue of her low SAT's. But she ultimately went to the SAME college as her valedictorian girlfriend...it has NOT been difficult for their friendship either I might add even though her friend got a FULL RIDE to the same school and we are paying full tab! Much harder for us as parents!! But we have all yet to see if both, one or neither succeed at this very difficult school. My D KNOWS she has to work very hard to stay competitive...and it doesn't come easy to her...while her bros. just sailed.....In the long run, I tell her (which I truly believe) that she will be equally if not MORE successful than they because of her work ethic. I am curious to see what happens to her and her girlfriend....time will tell...but I do pray alot(for both of them). My point? GPA's and SAT's are a reality check for some...and much needed. I certainly did not want to waste our time and our money on application fees for schools that would end up throwing her appl. in the first round elimination "hopper." And interestingly, most of the top 10 kids in her schools applied to schools that were reasonable for them...and they discussed them amongst themselves and even made suggestions as to what colleges offered the best programs based on their individual interests..and shared stories about visitations, etc. Thought the HS handled the whole ranking thing very diplomatically and encouraged the students to share their impressions and ideas. Nice school district...am very pleased and proud!</p>
<p>Senior year and college app time is the first time friends start to discuss this but it is in the grain of helping each other out, venting about whether to retake a test, whether they have a shot at their favorite school. It is something they are all thinking about and dealing with right now so they turn to their family and friends to share experiences. My D is the type who is pretty open about whatever the topic or issue of the moment is and her friends are very open with her. She does not hold a lot in and that is probably why she is so healthy and genuinely happy. After decisions are made it will become a non-issue again and learning can be for learning sake again and stats can fade into the background again.</p>
<p>Voronwe...I wholeheartedly agree to more recognition being bestowed academic achievement. Plus in our school, the politically correct mode seems to not give awards to the best and brightest students or single them out in any capacity. I think things like honor rolls and recognizing achievement or awards, is different than sharing actual "stats" like GPA, rank, test scores. Yes, kids naturally know at our HS who are the best students in the class in an overall sense but there is no talk of specific "stats". </p>
<p>Another thing my D could not relate to when reading some student posts here when I first found this site and showed it to her, is the obssession with the SAT scores....as in posts of "I only got a 1500, should I retake?". She had a goal to get over a certain benchmark that was in the ballpark for colleges she is suited to academically and once she exceeded that benchmark on her second try, she had no desire to keep trying to go higher. She was very pleased with her score and no, it was not in the stratosphere of some posters on here but certainly was an excellent score well within reason for selective schools and that was all she needed. The obssession with stats on the student posts here is a very different way of thinking than she has or is used to among peers at home. Actually everything is also perspective. If my D ever told local friends her SATS (which she would never do), they would all think she got a terrific score but if she posted it on CC, I have this gut feeling people would say, don't apply to the top schools or some such.</p>
<p>The students in DD's class share a little info, but basically they don't care. Test scores generally get around, only about 1/3 of the class takes the SAT, and they are something like sgovinc's post, discussing different schools. The other 2/3rds are taking ACT only, and if you make the state uni cut-offs, no one really cares. GPA and test grade wise, no one discusses it, the top group is fairly small and close-knit. There was a lot of commiseration for DD, because she only made Commended scholar, when by her SAT she should have been Semi-Finalist. There has also been support for a friend who sounds something like sgiovinc's daughter - a bright, hard worker who didn't do as well as she expected on the ACT. I feel sad for many of these posters.</p>
<p>My D couldn't have kept much of her stats secret if she wanted to. Her GPA was listed on the honor roll that is sent in a newsletter to the parents of each student at the school. Likewise, when she made National Merit they announced that too, and they threw in her SAT scores in that announcement for good measure. And when her calculus teacher heard about her scores he asked in class if it was true and how did she do it, because he'd like to know for the sake of his son who would be taking the SATs in the future. And around graduation time the local newspaper featured all the local vals and sals and listed their colleges, so everyone who didn't already know heard she was going to Harvard too.</p>
<p>So my D never had to tell anyone her stats. The school did it for her.</p>