<p>sgiovinc1--I understand completely about "Harvard." There is one kid I know who goes there, and people are so funny about it--they are so in awe of this kid, and speak of this in a very reverent way--and nobody was in awe of this kid before he got in! Maybe it is my midwestern upbringing, but I am very comfortable flying under the radar, not drawing attention. So when the conversation turns to college, I actually get a big kick out of saying he is at the University of Chicago--it does not impress anyone. People who have lived in Chicago don't even know about it! Honestly, I talked to someone a couple of weeks ago who said she used to live in Chicago who asked "oh, is that the circle campus?" </p>
<p>Then, when I do come across someone who actually knows something about Chicago, I feel like we are sharing a secret.</p>
<p>S's school only lists where the kids are going to matriculate in the school magazine's end of the year issue. After that the info is absorbed into 4 year stats where you can see where all of the school's graduates are going to college but no breakdown as to who or when the kid graduated. S1's school had a comprehensive list that it posted as to each school where a kid was accepted and any merit award he got, which I initially was taken aback about, but have since found it a valuable source of info for merit scholarships. I still peruse his old highschool's website for that infor--though the school was a bit light on the most selective colleges, it was very heavy on the merit awards that the kids snagged as their guidance department was aggresive in seeking out such programs and letting the applicants know about those activities. So the final list of colleges for that school did have the same drawback as Sgiovinci's school--you did not know if it was the same kid who got into however many colleges without seeing the breakdown list.</p>
<p>Our school also puts out a list in the school paper that lists all of the scholarships the students were offered. I don't think it listed all of the schools they were admitted to, but if they got a merit award from a school it was obvious. This information was self-reported to the GC's. Like Jamimom, I found the scholarship info useful in searching for schools and outside scholarships. </p>
<p>Mstee, my son is at MIT. Some people are impressed and some ask if that's some kind of a techinical school like ITT or a junior college. I just tell them it's in Mass. and leave it at that. Some of the people here are more likely to know Chicago than MIT.</p>
<p>I'm happy to hear that most of your kids are not obsessed with knowing, sharing, etc. The various trends at various schools regarding reporting and such probably relate as much to traditional policies as anything else. "we have always done it this way, why change" is a phrase I would expect to hear if schools were confronted with the suggestion that too much sharing of information could exaccerbate the stress. As far as kids knowing so that they can gauge where to send applications, I think this information should come directly from a counselor. Our school doesn't yet have one of those "scatterogram" programs so in order to determine if my son was "in the ballpark", we asked the counselor for the last 4 year figures for kids applying to the schools he applied to..these are not current classmates, these are kids who are already off to college, so the issue of feeding competition is negated. </p>
<p>It causes me a bit of worry about my son's fellow applicants at his ED school, in much the same way that Momsdream expresses(I think it is the same school). I am only hoping that someof the kids who post on the thread are a tiny fraction of the applicants in terms of style(a bit arrogant, vicious at times) and substance(uninteresting, lacking imagination).....</p>
<p>Over30...people in Chicago may not know MIT, but people in Asia sure recognize the Brass Rat!</p>
<p>I'm a student and I don't understand why you think it is so weird for kids to know the SAT scores and GPAs of comparable classmates. It's natural to want to understand "the competition." Also, the SATs and GPAs are important parts of a high schooler's life, like it or not. I probably know the SAT and GPA of about 25 or so people - it's not like I keep a journal. </p>
<p>If someone doesn't want to discuss it everyone knows to just leave it at that but usually people are willing and even volunteering their "stats," especially towards the top of the class.</p>
<p>robyrm--if the applicants come across this way in their applications (stat-oriented, and no imagination) my guess is that they are the ones less likely to actually get in, that is, if the school your S is applying to is one of the highly selective ones.</p>
<p>Slipstream,
If you also know what music they listen to, what books they read, what they are worried about, what boy/girl they currently like, what they think about the war in Iraq, what they do in their (likely miniscule) down time, etc...then I worry less. But if all you ever talk about are your GPA and SAT then you are substituting this for learning about each other as people. Yes, they might be the "competition", but can they also be your friend and your colleague. Adults who talk about their income, how big their house is, etc...are considered boorish and many of us choose to avoid them. Learning how to be human is complicated and takes as much energy and time as studying SAT words, etc....These traits of comparing yourselves to others based upon numbers and such are habits...and as we all know habits can be hard to break. This is why I worry. </p>
<p>I've always enjoyed telling folks out here I went to Williams. In the last 14 years of my employment, I have never met a single "boss-type" who has ever heard of it. (So much for connections.) Some mis-hear and think I said "Whitman", which always creates a good impression.</p>
<p>Now I tell folks my d. goes to the college where they invented the cough drop. (please don't tell her that.) If you say "Brown", most folks think it has something to do with United Parcel Service (which originated in Seattle.) You get some "prestige points" for BYU, and, for athletic types, "Stanford" or sometimes "USC". But it's all mostly Huskies and Cougs, Western (Western Washington U.) and "Greeners" (Evergreen), PLU (Pacific Lutheran - very, very popular out here, much more so than "UPS" - Puget Sound); and an occasional Catholic is a "Zag". And the SAT scores of students from the area going to any of those schools will vary quite widely, from 850 to 1600 (rarely), so there's a different kind of competition going on down here (mostly having to do with alcohol and sex.)</p>
<p>My S knows what kind of food his friends like, what kind of movies, computer games and music they like; but he does not know their grades or their SATs and has only a vague idea of who is applying to which school. He sees them everyday at lunch, but it would not occur to any of them to discuss stats. In fact they know they are not in competition with one another but with thousands of others whom they do not know. Why waste valuable time comparing stats when they could be telling each other silly jokes? :)</p>
<p>In S's current private school, entrants take a test and are assigned to a set accordingly. Lower set boys must take additional English courses and do not study languages. Exceptional maths students are advanced a year. Scholarships are awarded to exceptional students and musicians--regardless of need. The scholarships are posted next to the boy's name in publications. There is a huge prize giving ceremony at the end of every year. </p>
<p>Boys with high grades wear honor ties. Scholarship tests are given in every subject and if you pass with an 85 or above, all university courses in that subject are free of charge. All the universities take all the students with university entrance grades--basically a B or above except for really tough courses like medicine and...architecture :). A student needs As to get into Architecture! Naturally everyone assumes architects are terribly clever, lol.</p>
<p>University fees are US$12k including board and everyone can borrow the money from the government. It only take sthree years to get a Bachelors. </p>
<p>In the US, my Ss didn't necessarily 'discuss' SAT, GPA--but they knew where their friends stood in the ultra-competitive hs--especially in Maths and Sciences where higher classes were established early on. </p>
<p>Sorry to disagree, but a parent is kidding themselves if they think the kids NEVER discuss it. Even if they are only the tiniest bit ambitious, I bet your kids know generally where their friends stand. The out and out competitiveness of analyzing grades and scores seems verbotten in most of the boy cultures I've seen. Boys deliberately put the issue on the back burner to preserve the sense of a group or pack.</p>
<p>CC gives kids a chance to let it all hang out without judgement. Some kids don't get the boundaries and they post too much--but most are well protected. The kids post accepted stats to try to verify what's happened. It can be a random process and they need ways to reassure themselves--why did I get in? Why didn't I get in? I think it's healthy for the majority.</p>
<p>I've learned a lot from the stats posted too. It's a great reality check. Otherwise we'd be forced to 'descend' into anecdote as one CC poster stated.</p>
<p>My son has what he describes as a "permeated relationship" with 2 boys and a girl whom he has known since first grade (very rare in expat circles). They are all beginning to realize that in a few short months they will be scattered and I think they realize that the time they have together is precious...Beyond the inner circle are his next group of friends who will be attending university in the UK, New Zealand, Germany, Australia, India, Netherlands, Singapore, Korea, etc...and again, there is little time to waste. </p>
<p>Does my son have a sense of who might be in the ballpark and interested in applying to very competitive schools- absolutely. Does he know their SAT or GPA, absolutely not. </p>
<p>Last year the SAT scores and GPA of the val came to light when the boy did not get into his first choice school (he had many other fine options, no lysosomal absolution needed)...His stats were so stratospheric that I think the kids need no other "reality check" and they don't need more numbers to tell them what everyone knows-- what they do need are generous, playful, challenging, enduring and supportive relationships.</p>
<p>I agree, it would be a shame if these matters were the ONLY topic of conversation, hopefully that's not the case.</p>
<p>When kids hear a story like your val's story, they have to take in the random factor in the process, the random factor in life. If the student has had a steady diet of merit-based successes, the random factor can be difficult. My point is that the kids DO know those stories; ie they MUST be talking about them a tiny bit.</p>
<p>This particular story is discussed only in hushed tones in the GC's office (not)...truly, the kid got into Harvard, Stanford and Cambridge- so very little trauma or drama- just HUH? It was such a shock that post the initial discussion everyone has just let it go. Beyond the reality of entropy....the kids just kind of get on with it here. I think the fact that their lives have been continually rocked by real life events mitigates some of the "life or death" feeling that kids seem to display regarding college admisssions on these boards (and I know they are just venting sometimes, but jeesh...)...</p>
<p>I'm a senior, and occasionally the topics come up (when we're at school and everyone checks their SAT scores it's especially bad), but for the most part I can honestly say that I have no idea about the board scores or GPAs of my classmates. There's a general sense of the "best" students due to the fact that there are only single AP courses for physics C, BC calc, languages, etc. There isn't really much of a sense of competition though -- our school does not weight GPAs or even rank students, although any graduates with averages above 90 receive special designation during the ceremony.</p>
<p>A lot of us joke about individual grades on specific tests, although it is merely joking. This especially holds true in physics and calc where it's almost as much a badge of honor to get the lowest score in the class as the highest. We all have our individual drives to learn and do well and be sucessful, but I don't think that there's much competition, at least among my group of friends. Sometimes it irritates my dad, but I can quite honestly say that others' grades are not our primary concern.</p>
<p>As for applying to colleges, the only reason that I know where other people are applying is that they will miss class to visit with adcoms who come to the school or I bump into them at info nights or the telling favorite sweatshirt. There's one other girl applying ED to the same school that I am, and I have no idea what her "stats" are, nor would I ever ask her for them.</p>
<p>Personally, I'm grateful for the stats info. It helps me get a perspective on at least a little bit of the competition. However, I find more interesting the activities-its interesting to see how people spend their time, and some of them are really interesting and unique. I don't have a problem with people posting their stats. I dont like the "chances" questions much, because, honestly, who knows? but I can skip over those pretty easily. I've posted my stats because I figured if I'm going to read others', well they can read mine-plus there's nothing too personal there. As long as one is private and sticks to his own info-not friends, family, etc. I dont have a problem. Although, and maybe this is from a kids point of view, it would kind of disturb me if my parents were posting about my stats or life issues on here-maybe just me, cause we never talk about any of it at home.</p>
<p>Speaking of people not knowing of the school when you mention it (the MIT to ITT reference)....I ran into a person I know from high school. We really didin't know each other much in HS, but he recognized me walking to vote a couple of weeks ago and stopped to say hi. As we were talking he confided that he has a son the same asge as mine, but his son isn't doing so well (he has a "bad boy sheet" as Jamimom calls it) the subject of college for my S came up....and he asked where he wanted to go. When I said "University of Penn" he replied "ha! ...you're son's off to Penn State and mine is off to the State Pen" . I was too shocked about the State Pen comment to reply about the Penn State / UPenn mix-up. Then he wanted my number..... Oy Vei.</p>
<p>While I do not know my S's class rank or GPA, I do know that there has been a bit of a shark-feeding frenzy at his school over SAT scores. The peer-driven pressure there seems to have been much more intense than anything parents are applying.</p>
<p>S's class has three NMSQ commended and three semi-finalists in a class of about 55 students, which may be typical for some schools, but not ours. A friend of my S's described it to me as the 'genius kids', the 'dumb kids' and then a few 'normal' kids in between who are feeling a great deal of pressure because of the larger-than-normal group at the top. </p>
<p>Parents and students alike seem a little nervous, perhaps because in any given year there might be one or two of these 'top' students in a senior class at our school who apply and are accepted at an Ivy, but this year there are enough with the same goals and qualifications that there is real concern about the possibility of them canceling one another out with several applying ED to the same Ivy.</p>
<p>At the same time, I have to think it is good for our kids in a way because they have challenged one another to accomplish more, and perhaps each of them will be given a better look by the Ivies in question because of the number of students applying. Is that Pollyanna-ish of me?</p>