<p>Alita, While I too find it surprising that kids think they can get much specific information in the "chances" posts, they sure are popular and it is the individual's choice whether or not to share their data. What I find more significant are kids posting the data of other kids(as on a thread for the school my son applied to ED)...and that kids seem to know so much data about other kids...</p>
<p>Momsdream...maybe they need a sweatshirt that says "Not Penn State and Not State Pen"...</p>
<p>Cheers wrote: " Even if they are only the tiniest bit ambitious, I bet your kids know generally where their friends stand."</p>
<p>I actually agree with this statement in the sense that kids know who the best students are at school or who is in their range or who takes the hardest classes or who is college bound and stuff of that sort, how can they not. But that is not the same as knowing each kids' GPA, rank, and SAT scores. My D did not know that stuff about the other kids and it is not a topic of discussion here, she has said so. She knows who makes honor roll each quarter as it is published and who are the better students overall but not individual statistics and certainly not test scores. </p>
<p>I can see some kids talking about things like test scores with kids from some other location, but not amongst local peers to a large degree. But this kind of "competitiveness" in one's own school, no, I do not see that here. I realize it is prevalent in other types of communities, particularly affluent ones who ones where many kids are striving for elite schools and feel in competition with one another and families are driven by getting into name schools and all that jazz. That is a different culture than I have in my community and for this, I am grateful to live here even if we don't have a known high school that might help at admissions time. </p>
<p>I would say my kids' experience in this regard correlates with a post that Marite put up about her son's HS and how the talk is not of these numbers amongst his cafeteria buddies. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>While my community not rural, it is Southern. Two of S's best friends only wanted state U, which is a shoe-in for them (& a free ride). He was only one interested in MIT/Caltech, so no competition. HAD he gone to IB program or a private school, I'm sure the atmosphere would have been more competitive. (He's since met 7 kids from those programs at his college). Anyway, people so genuinely happy when he got admitted, we had impromptu party the next night. Every friend and parent came!</p>
<p>Even I knew the scores of his friends, but never cared in terms of competitiveness. Each one has their own career goal and their dream schools.</p>
<p>My daughter went to a school that emphasized collaborative education and cooperative learning so there was never a lot of talks about grades because it would undermind the schools philosophy. There wasn't much talk if any about SAT scores GPA because the answer would have been 'get a life". The only thing close to talk was when 1 boy and 1 girl were applying Early to Princeton, she made a public spectactacle about her grades/ gpa about how she felt she had better scores than him and she pretty much got ostracized. </p>
<p>When she got rejected, and he got waitlisted, people laughed in her face. When my daughter got her Dartmouth likely letter and the Willaims early write the next day, she only told her closest friends. It took on a life of its own. SInce they were all in AP English first period, one of the friends asked the girl who was now waiting to hear about Penn "what's your 1600 doing for you now becasue 'Sally got 2 acceptances in 2 days". The friends made 2 large congratulions banners for her and the whole senior class signed them.</p>
<p>While people seem consumed with stats and GPA in the end I feel it still comes down to what we can hear in church on any given sunday...</p>
<p>Let the works that I've done speak for me.</p>
<p>An interesting thread. One thing I can't help but note is that many of the posters here who are dismayed that students would know who-got-what, and would never discuss SATs or GPA with other parents, and try to make a joke or flat out avoid any such daily life discussions obviously don't mind sharing their info under the CC cloak of anonymity. Face it, it's interesting. What impressed me most about my kids' relatively small, closed-in- community type schools, where this stuff is just known, out there for anyone who's interested, is how well they handle the information. Anyone who brags about their SAT can expect to be treated as a braggart deserves, anyone who's obviously smart and gets a poor score isn't less esteemed for it, anyone who gets all As by unrelenting effort or never cracks a book and still gets Bs, well, that's who they are. Anyone who couldn't care less pays no attention. By comparison my own hangups about this are are legion: if someone asks where Son ended up in college, I find myself mumbling "he's out West" or something. I have to keep reminding myself that people don't really care.</p>
<p>Robyrm, I think there are several things going on here. First self-selection. People very interested in their children's college choice are more likely to hang around CC and offer opinion on a wide variety of subjects. These people are far likelier to know things about their HS and its students than a "typical" parent would. Second, some parents live vicariously through their children. We normally think of this in sports but it also happens in this realm too. Third, many parents are what have been recently described as helicoptor parents, hovering over every aspect of their children's lives, often to their detriment.</p>
<p>And finally, there are fakers who make up facts, situations, stats, and whatnot. I don't know why but it happens. I am very suspect with posters who never offer specifics, being paranoid that they will be identified. I usually try to offer specifics because I believe it gives readers valuable info. What harm can come of telling fellow readers what college I attended(OSU & Cornell), what college my wife and son attend(ed)(RPI), what colleges he applied to(RPI, Case, Oberlin, Allegheny, Wooster,OWU), colleges he visited(all except OWU+Rochester), or the merit scholarships he was offered($100k, 68k, 0, 64k, 60k, 80k). Knowing those facts together with his "stats"(1450, 97 avg, 6 AP's) give parents and student a far greater idea of where they stand in the college selection and allow them to ask, Why OWU(free common app offer and vg merit aid though not likely to attend-a last minute decision)?</p>
<p>Could I be identified with these set of facts? Yes, by perhaps 4 people. Do I care? Not a bit.</p>
<p>idler--good point. I myself share things on here because of the anonymity, that I share with very few in my non-anonymous role. It seems like some things you can only talk about with people you know very well or people you don't know at all!</p>
<p>interesting thread ... for me context of the conversation would matter a lot ... it's been awhile since I went to HS and we discussed grades and scores some but I think in a positive way. For example, one of my best friends wanted to go to Johns Hopkins as a pre-med ... when he took his SATs and when he finished certain subjects like Chemistry and Biology we talked about his scores and grades and if they helped/hurt his plans.</p>
<p>The relative anonymity afforded by the internet is a given.. and I have no concerns with individuals sharing their (or their children's) own details either if they want to inform others of their experiences or for review of others. Given the statistics of small samples, and the self selecting nature of those using CC, and the uncertain nature of elite college admissions--I think everyone knows to take these with a grain of salt. Do I think it useful for my son(s)...not really I have to say. I have looked at books/magazines which give statistical information, and I understand what the numbers mean, and I know that our particular situation has variables not addressed in most sources. </p>
<p>What my question really was about is how kids in various schools seem to know so much about each other's statistics and how at least some of them feel comfortable sharing the numbers and names of their classmates on the internet. I also wonder how it "works" at schools and in the lives of these kids who seem so aware of others' statistics, and spend so much time thinking about them- since this is not the experience at our school...</p>
<p>We all find this whole situation interesting for various reasons, I for one plan to no longer find it quite as interesting after May 1 (or December 15 with fingers crossed)...</p>
<p>Idler, the only thing is that we are talking of kids sharing GPA and test scores and that sort of thing and most parents on here are not posting "data" like that about their kids. I have not nor have most on here (not that I care if others choose to). We DO share specifics about our kids in terms of where they are applying or got in or other things to do with this process as sort of a "support" group and that works in part because we don't know each other in regular life or do not live in the same communities or the people do not truly know our kids and so on. But I don't think we are sharing stats as much as experiences. Of course that is open to debating but I don't think that is the same as sharing stats themselves which is what was being discussed here originally.</p>
<p>Like athletes on a sports team, isn't it possible for students to support each other in a highly competitive environment? That was our experience in the US. Although it wasn't posted by the school and downplayed by admin, yhe kids knew who had what grades and PSAT scores--especially among their close friends and the top set--but that knowledge didn't affect their enjoyment of each other.</p>
<p>Seeing a kid's anxiety in technicolor on CC probably does not represent the day-to-day life of most of the CC student posters. There are a few super anxious CC posters--and they are probably super anxious in their day to day life too. Not much to do about that. We have anxiousmom and angstridden, after all. :)</p>
<p>Anyway, I would be careful about making judgements about the competitiveness of high school life in the US from overseas--just as I wouldn't expect many American-based parents to understand our S's current high school--with the Eton-esque jackets and ties and "Yes Sir! No Ma'am!" decorum. </p>
<p>The stats we read on CC represent a lot of venting, IMHO. Healthy, non-destructive venting. Good on 'em. And good for us too. The CC parents are an unbelieveable FREE FREE FREE INSTANT resource for students.</p>
<p>I know all my friends scores/GPAs/rankings. It's all fairly common knowledge. We know where each person is applying, but it's not an unpleasant competitive atmosphere. I realize that my chances at some places are much lower because 10 of my friends are also applying...but it doesn't stop me from editing their college essays. There's nothing wrong with knowing.</p>
<p>Elizabeth22: You make alot of sense. I think most of the competition lies with the parents and not as much with the kids! Good for you!</p>
<p>Susan: I agree (though I think I recall your D's scores being "shared" here), but my main point has been that their sharing can be a positive thing: my kids' experience was much the same as that of Elizabeth22 and Cheers', above.</p>
<p>Idler, my kids have helped edit other kids' essays as well. They have shared their resumes to help others who do not have a clue as to how to go about it. If someone asked them a "stat", they'd answer but they don't go around telling it or posting on forums asking what are their chances and comparing with other posters's stats which is common among student posters here. I don't criticize those who do but just saying it is not commonplace in our neck of the woods as far as exchanging all these numbers and such. I don't think my kids are competing against anyone from their school with regard to admissions, and that is clearly different than the case at some schools that people here go to where this is a big topic of conversation and many are applying to the same schools. I understand that the atmosphere is simply different. </p>
<p>Actually, Idler, I share about my kids and their experiences on here but I have never shared their actual SAT scores. I have mentioned that they each reached their goal and stopped after two tries as long as they got over a number they wanted to be over. They were not obsessed with the scores and in fact, while their scores are good and are in the ballpark for the schools they wanted to apply to, they are not necessarily of the amazing stellar variety often read about on CC. </p>
<p>I have never listed their "stats" (test scores, rank, GPA) as is commonplace on CC posts. I have mentioned one D being val in the context of when discussions of vals came up or ranking issues were being discussed, insofar as exchanging experiences on those issues. I am definitely not critical of those who do share their numbers on here, however. I just know that while I talk about my kids, I have consciously chosen to not write out their "stats". </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>OK, Susan, my mistake, I must be thinking of some other well-known "D" who got a 1540. You've shared a lot about D1 in the past year, and received many well-deserved kudos on her accomplishments. I think it's fine that students at your HS don't talk about grades, gpa, etc. obsessively. All I'm saying is that my kids schools these things are well-known to no apparent negative effect, and I'm impressed at how little they obsess about them.</p>
<p>Idler, that's ok. By the way, she did not score as high as that "well known D", nor did my D2. </p>
<p>I totally realize kids in other communities talk about this stuff and it need not have any negative affect. My kids have friends who attend both private and public high schools in other states, often in more affluent communities or in school settings where many kids are striving for competitive colleges. That is just very different than my rural community. I know what you are talking about and surely do not criticize it. But it is SOOOOOOO much more low key here. I bet there is only one kid at school right now who has an inkling of where my D is applying only because that girl is also going for a BFA in musical theater so they have talked about it a little bit (they likely do not know each other's entire list, certainly not stats) but are interested in a few similar schools, and are being coached by the same private teachers for their auditions. I have a feeling it has not come up at all among any other friends of hers. Like I said, just very different here.</p>
<p>I recall chatting on parent weekend at camp this past summer with the parents of one of my younger D's friends, who was about to enter her freshman year of college and the parents were aware that I had another daughter that age and were asking where that D was going to go. I forget how it led to this but when I said she was the only child in the entire school to go to ANY Ivy league college, the parents looked shocked but then again they live in Greenwich, CT and we live on a dirt road in rural VT, lol. Same thing happened when we were setting up our D's room at drop off at Brown and chatting with roomie's parents who we really like (our girls have become good friends) and this girl went to a private K-12 prep school in Chicago and out of 80 graduates, 6 are freshmen at Brown and when I said that my D was the only one from her school to even apply to Brown but also the only one to even get into any of the Ivies, they also looked shocked as it is just such a different set of circumstances. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I haven't quite made up my mind about the whole specific grade/stat awareness thing. I do admire kids who are effortlessly brilliant, completely self-motivated, non-competitive, blissfully unaware of where their performance is in relation to others, and casually apply to top colleges for only the purest of reasons and are accepted. For some of us, it's a little bumpier road.</p>
<p>As I posted above, the kids at our school all know each other's stuff, but it's never felt competitive to them or to me. They all seem to be genuinely happy when someone scores well or gets into their dream school. There is some competition in the sense that several of them may apply to the same schools and for the same scholarships, but they've been experiencing this all through high school with such things as officer positions and being selected for certain honors. It hasn't seemed to harm their friendships or their self-esteem.</p>
<p>I'd rather lose "my spot" at a great school to someone I know well and respect than some random person anyday. And everyone in my school really is happy to hear when others do well or are accepted- even when they themselves are not.</p>