<p>Wanted to update everyone that I got into several top 20 math PhD programs and I went to SBU for the whole 4 years. Getting into a top notch school with barely any undergrad debt rules!</p>
<p>Hey so I read everyone that Stony Brook is a great school for the sciences, but what about other majors? Im planning on doing political science and afterwards trying to get into a good law school. Im not a bad student and going to a very hard high school has prepared me for any challenges, but will I be negatively affected by pursuing a degree in poly sci at stony brook?</p>
<p>Hey, i am a transfer with way to many units so i am just working on my major requirements and dont have time to really explore and decide between AMS and MAT (or potentially both?)</p>
<p>Can you tell me how they compare, what career options are open to each. </p>
<p>Also what teachers do you recommend in MAT .</p>
<p>Right now i am finishing 211 and technically i am on track for AMS but i am having a hard time deciding if i want to do AMS or MAT and take the following lin alg course instead b4 i forget all this weird Lin Alg stuff (i hate lin algebra)</p>
<p>Anyways, basically, compares the pros cons of AMS and MAT</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Slavic- having experience with a husband who is in law school i can tell you simply that your undergrad school doesnt matter that much for law school, get the highest GPA possible and the higest LSAT score possible- that will get you into MANY law schools already- if you are aiming for harvard, yale, etc type of schools, you will need to do some amazing stand-outish activities along with having the highest possible gpa and LSAT score.</p>
<p>Basically if SB is condusive to you getting the highest gpa possible with the highest lsat score go there, if not go elsewhere. Where you major in Polisci will not matter to law schools.</p>
<p>Thanks ( :</p>
<p>Now I guess I need to figure out what amazing stand-outish activities I can do at stony brook</p>
<p>Hey Malishka, here is my assessment of MAT and AMS (I double majored in both).</p>
<p>AMS is definitely more about getting a job. I really recommend doing AMS + compsci minor rather than AMS MAT double major if you care about a job and not about graduate school in pure math. Some of the students have gone on to become actuaries, the AMS department offers 2 courses that helps you pass the first 2 exams before you graduate (this is standard actually but a good head start nonetheless). </p>
<p>A lot of the professors are quite good, very experienced in their field. Basically if you are worried about your career opportunities, I really recommend an AMS/Compsci double major. It might take longer, but you have a lot of career opportunities since you know statistics and programming. Very very useful. They also have some good contacts, you just need to let them know your intentions early. Stop by Alan Tucker or Joseph Mitchell's office and have a chat with them, both are very nice guys.</p>
<p>The MAT route, many will disagree, is pretty much if you want to go to a pure math PhD program. I have not heard of too many MAT majors getting jobs out of undergrad, this is just my experience. But on the other hand, all the good MAT majors go on to graduate school. </p>
<p>Career wise, MAT is really about I want to become a research professor. AMS you can still go to graduate school but have some nice employment opportunities. AMS also lets you get a BS/Masters combined degree in a field like stats, operations research and something else that I forget. They also have a good mathematicial finance professor in James Glimm (who is also a world class pure mathematician) and he seems to still be active. </p>
<p>Just another word to the wise, for pure math majors, Linear Algebra is considered one of the most important courses. Now 211 is the numerical one, where all you do is compute, but 310 is really the first "pure math" course you take. It's all proofs and abstract reasoning. It's used almost everywhere in math and many math professors say if you don't understand or like linear algebra, you probably won't like pure math. With MAT, you'll get more of the same with 310. Everything will pretty much be proofs, be long winded and frustrating. You have to like doing proofs. That is the name of the game.</p>
<p>I would like to say that a reason a lot of MAT majors don't get jobs is probably because that's not their main goal; their main goal is to get into grad school and usually pure math grad school. Unless you really want to do pure math, I wouldn't major in MAT.</p>
<p>Now if you like problem solving AMS is a good option. Some of my AMS courses were actually more FUN than my MAT courses. If I had pursued AMS as heavily as MAT, I probably could've gotten a nice paying job out of undergrad. </p>
<p>So to summarize:
AMS Pros - good employability, good range of courses which prepare you for real jobs (statistics, probability, actuarial, operations research) and a double major with compsci is really a great idea. I say this because with any real applied math job, you need to know how to program, either statistics programs like SAS or with computer programming like C++ or Fortran. </p>
<p>AMS Cons - Hard to say, a con depends on context of who is asking. If you want to go to graduate school for pure math, AMS does not really help that much. Not proof intensive.</p>
<p>MAT Pros - If you do well, not just in class but with research and grad courses, you will get into a very good graduate school (If an idiot like me can get into top level grad programs, anyone can).</p>
<p>MAT Cons - Very little career training, but this should be understood from the beginning. You don't major in pure math to get a real life job. It happens, but applied math has so many more industry jobs. It's not even fair to compare them. And most industry jobs for pure math majors (i.e. I'm talking about those mathematical finance jobs on Wall Street) require a math PhD from a top school.</p>
<p>See Ratemyprofessors.com for teacher ratings, I liked almost every class I took in AMS and MAT, but I also love math, so again, context matters, it might be different for you.</p>
<p>EDIT:</p>
<p>Here are some potential careers coming out of an AMS with programming skills:
Statistician (rated the BEST job by the Bureau of Labor or the BLS)
Actuary (considered a top 5 job by the BLS)
Mathematical Finance (need to do a masters or a PhD, but if you do, it's big money. James Glimm who runs the math-finance department at SUNYSB has good connection with James Simons, the hedge fund mananger billionaire).
Operations Research Analayst
Code breaker at the NSA - the AMS department actually offers a course on code breaking, i think it's AMS 351. It teaches how you to encode messages using number theory and groups and how to break those codes sometimes.</p>
<p>These are all very nice high level jobs.</p>
<p>So the point is: AMS - better for your career, MAT - if you want to become a research mathematician. But of course if you do AMS, you can also go to an applied math grad program, very easily too. The faculty at both the AMS and MAT department are pretty friendly and will do their best to see you succeed. However, if you do just AMS, you will not be competitive enough to get into a pure math grad program.</p>
<p>Good to know, you reinforced my initial thoughts. My career goal is Actuary for a long time already - but i figured MAT with some of the AMS would get me just as far or maybe a double with MAT- but it is true that i am not a big fan of theoretical math. I love calculation and just problem solving, i dont care about abstract weird stuff like linear algebra- especially in large quantaties. </p>
<p>Right now if you pass 1 of the 2 exams you get verification by education for Actuary, so you can graduate with credit for 5 exams in total- which is 50%- seems like a good deal to me. </p>
<p>How would you say are summer math courses? I am considering AMS 310 in the summer as it is a preq for many courses and would help me graduate faster</p>
<p>I've never actually taken any summer AMS courses. 310 if I remember is Survey of Probability and Stats. Just my style, I wouldn't take an important course in the summer. 310 (Survey), 311 (Probability Theory), 312 (Mathematical Stats), 318 (Theory of Interest) and the level 400 actuary course I would take with AMS professor during the Fall or Spring. </p>
<p>310 is easier than 311, much easier than 312 and 318 and the 400 Actuary course, so you could probably get away with taking it in the summer. It's not a particularly difficult course, you just need to get used to doing the stats and probability computations. 311 isn't too hard either, 312 is a mother-effer. I didn't take 318, but I heard that is very difficult as is the actuary course. </p>
<p>I really recommend you talking to Alan Tucker. I remember speaking to him about the whole actuary stuff and he gave me a lot of good advice and insight as to what courses to take and how to plan it out. Alan Tucker really pushes the whole actuary thing in the department, at least that's how he was when I took a course under him.</p>
<p>If you are not a fan of MAT 211, you will hate the level 300 stuff. 310 is all proofs. 320 is Real Analysis, 324 is Measure Theory, 362 is Differential Geometry, 364 Topology, you get the picture. There aren't really anymore computation based courses after 211, you have to start doing proofs. We do compute things, like curvature or homology groups, but we prove our computation is true. </p>
<p>I wouldn't waste my time in a major I didn't like and that does not have my career path. MAT 211 is a good enough indicator of what MAT is like and it probably only gets 10 times more rigorous and abstract. That is why I focused more on MAT than AMS. I valued getting a pure math PhD more than becoming an actuary or financial analyst.</p>
<p>I personally am in a bind for time so taking 310 in the summer is really a push for me b/c i do need to get a job ... different circumstances to most people- i have a family etc.</p>
<p>Hey i have another question for you- Would you say that if dislike 211 i will have a very hard time with AMS as well? </p>
<p>it is not like i find 211 boring, or anything like that, it is just too abstract for my taste. Still very interesting, and i still enjoy it over lets say history, but just too abstract for me to love as much as say calculus(not analysis even though i know that is where calculus is headed)</p>
<p>I will see Prof Tucker later on... i want to officially declare the major and make up my mind before i get swayed in one direction or another iykwim</p>
<p>This is a great overview of the two programs; I learned a lot. Thanks, mathgrad.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
<p>@ Malishka</p>
<p>In ideal circumstances, I would say take both 310’s and see what you like more, AMS 310 - Survey of Prob and Stats and MAT 310 - Linear Algebra (the real Linear Algebra). However, we all have different constraints and hence have to make different and sometimes more difficult decisions. </p>
<p>Said different, in my opinion, both programs are really damn good. I loved almost every class I took in both majors. They both have some excellent professors who will dedicate time to their students. It’s just they offer different things. In AMS 312 the mathematical statistics course, it was very hard and had lots of proofs. Then I had some courses where we didn’t prove much but assumed a few key facts and solved some really cool problems, like in AMS 345 - Computational Geometry with Joseph Mitchell. We worked on robotics motion planning, where to place cameras to catch art thieves, very cool *****.</p>
<p>I would say the real “test” of whether or not you like MAT is when you take MAT 310, 320 and 313. These are the basic foundational courses in MAT. They are all proof intensive and very abstract. In 320 you rigorously prove all the facts you used in differential and integral calculus. 310 you take about more linear vector spaces, matrices, rigorous definition of the determinant and trace, complex operators, spectral theorem, etc.</p>
<p>Another way to test the waters, instead of talking to some math professors, spend an hour or two looking at the 310, 320 textbooks in the library. The linear algebra book is “Linear Algebra Done Right” by Axler and the 320 textbook is “Introduction to Real Analysis” by Bartle and Sherbert. Both are available on reserve at the Math Physics library. Really look through them. You’ll see almost no applications. It’s very abstract. Compare that to my 345 course where we did some very applied, real world things. Combinatorics is used in computer science and computer algorithms, statistics is used to model tons of real world situations. I believe Nancy Mendell works in biostatistics. Everyone in the AMS major can place one of their feet in the theoretical world and but also firmly place the other foot in real world application, and hence industry.</p>
<p>MAT is very different. There is a site about jobs using MAT degrees.
Here is a math career profile by the MAA: [Career</a> Profiles](<a href=“http://www.maa.org/careers/index.html]Career”>http://www.maa.org/careers/index.html)</p>
<p>Notice most of those jobs are held by applied mathematicians, aside from the professorships. Stats, programming, analyst - these are applied mathematicians. Pure mathematicians CAN make the transition, but who would you hire? Somebody who has taken all the courses already or someone I need to train on the job?</p>
<p>With MAT, even if you really enjoy it, unless you want to work in academia, I wouldn’t major in just that. I would add a viable double major that would help me get a job.</p>
<p>This is all just my opinion, but just ask yourself, do I want to get a math PhD? Do I want to become a math professor? A pure math professor mind you. If not, I personally would double down with another more employable major.</p>
<p>Some double majors I recommend:
AMS/MAT - I did this one.
MAT/Accounting - Accountants will always have work, and get good pay and it’s stable.
MAT/Compsci - Computer science is up and down but they still get good jobs.
MAT/Finance - This is probably controversial now because of the economic meltdown, but it’s not a bad idea.</p>
<p>It’s not fair to say after 211 you can’t do MAT, it’s just a level 200. You can really only say that after you take 310. 310 will give you a good idea of what is what. One of the math professors told me Linear Algebra is the most important subject in pure math; this is a professor who is world famous and has taught some student who went on to become MIT and Harvard professors. </p>
<p>If you don’t like 211 it’s not fair to say you won’t like AMS. It’s tough for me to tell people what they like or won’t like, in reality I don’t have a clue, only you can find out. But 211 is an MAT course and the AMS courses have a different flavor to them. In stats you will do a lot of computations. A LOT. But you can see immediate applications. Most MAT students don’t even understand the applications of linear algebra (Linear Programming, they form the mathematical basis of QUANTUM MECHANICS, this is never mentioned in 211 or 310!!!). So I would say no, just because you don’t like 211 does not mean you won’t enjoy AMS.</p>
<p>**But I would like to make a disclaimer, like I said before, I have no clue if you’ll like 310 or 320, I’m solely judging on the fact that you don’t like 211 so much.</p>
<p>I hope this helps. I really liked both programs and I’m more than willing to help anyone else out.</p>
<p>To those who question Math/Fin because of the current meltdown, wall street has been down before, but it is not out. It will be back, long before the current freshman graduate.</p>
<p>Hey SBUmathgrad, i have a question for you, do you think taking AMS 310, 311, 301 and 441 will be impossible??</p>
<p>310 - SUrvey of probablity
311 - probablity theory
301- finite math structures
441- business enterprises</p>
<p>As a double major, how many classes & credits did you take each semester? Also, did you have a minor?</p>
<p>In response to the double major thingy, it all depends on the majors. Some, like Linguistics, only require 36, but then there’s business which is like 60, and BME which is like 120… haha</p>
<p>I think this should be made a Sticky for AMS/ MAT. </p>
<p>I refer to this all the time.</p>
<p>Thank you SBUMathgrad!!!</p>
<p>I got accepted to Stony Brook and SUNY Albany. I want to major in political science. Although socila/partying isn’t my top priority, I have had a horrible high school experience and would like to make up for it. Any recommendations or comments?</p>
<p>In what way? Bad grades?</p>
<p>I am wondering how i can join the Frats !!! i have no idea how the application process works</p>
<p>Hey i want to double major in math and physics amd stony brook seems really. I just have two questions, are the math classes hard and how much research is available for an undergraduate freshman?
I enjoy challenging courses and i am really into math competitions. I really dont care how the campus life is as long as the courses are challenging</p>