I just have a question, please don't flame me

Colleges and Universities A-Z Barnard College
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<p>Hi francisvdahlmann</p>

<p>Neglecting specificities, I have one piece of advice, a bit of wisdom from someone who probably shouldn’t be giving out wisdom so early in life.</p>

<p>But I guess, from the experience I’ve had, I can only say one thing: Do what makes you the happiest.</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t think Barnard will make you happy if you don’t want to go to Barnard. On a more logistical level, realize how difficult it will be to finish your major if you do the Core AND Nine Ways. Columbia students have a lot difficulty finishing their Core requirements on time as it is, much less fullfill TWO sets of GERs at both Barnard and Columbia. </p>

<p>A tour guide at Barnard quoted survey results to me. In a questionaire given to incoming freshmen, most students said that they applied to Barnard NOT because it was a women’s college, but because of the relationship to Columbia. The same survey given out four years later to the same class of graduating seniors noted a paradigm shift: most seniors said that their Barnard experiance was MOST valuable simply BECAUSE it was women’s college. </p>

<p>That being said, I don’t think applying to Barnard because of the allure of Columbia is a necessarily bad thing. Obviously, many people are doing it. However, you aren’t going to be HAPPY at Barnard if you don’t want to GO to BARNARD, because you WILL BE at BARNARD. You seem very set on Columbia. So go for Columbia. It will be a different experience.</p>

<p>An Barnard admissions officer visited my high school and was very VERY stringent on the idea that Barnard is NOT equal to Columbia. She elaborated on the differences by comparing Barnard to Williams and Columbia to Harvard. Williams is considered by many to be the top Liberal-Arts College. Harvard is considered by many to be the top RESEARCH university. She said not to apply if we’re going for Barnard, because Barnard is not Columbia although it is affiliated. There is a big difference between Barnard and Columbia. Barnard is a liberal arts college; Columbia is research university.</p>

<p>My philosophy on life: Do what makes you happiest.</p>

<p>So I think you should do what makes you most happiest.</p>

<p>As a matter of strict opinion, I DON’T think you will be happy at Barnard if you’ll want to be over across the street at Columbia. </p>

<p>Do what makes you happiest. Think it over carefully and consider how happy you will be at Barnard. Not Columbia, Barnard.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean to imply anything negative about liberal studies - I was just trying to get a sense of why you are feeling under-challenged. </p>

<p>I know you love the idea of a core curriculum, but you might want to consider the fact that core-type courses by their nature tend to have a lot of breadth but lack depth. Courses that are more specialized in focus tend to delve deeper into the subject matter and afford the opportunity for more challenge, especially if the subject itself is challenging. You may be intrigued by the idea that Columbia students are reading a book a week in their Core classes – whereas in your program (I assume) the reading requirements are less demanding – but there is only so much that a person can get out of each book when read at that pace. That may be why many Columbia students find they can do fine with Sparknotes. </p>

<p>Maybe a transfer would be a good thing for you. I’m just suggesting that you might reevaluate whether the problem is with the particular courses at your school – or with your idea that you want/need a college with a strong core. You might find a lot more rigour if you were taking a set of courses geared to building advanced level understanding and analytical skills geared to in-depth study of specific topics, rather than courses geared to building general, foundational knowledge.</p>

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<p>Noloserhere, what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I didn’t apply to a lot of LACs as a senior because I wanted to go to college in a city - something which I realized limited me tremendously. I’ve said before in this thread that I’ve becoming more and more honestly intrigued with the idea of Barnard because I honestly think I might be happier at a liberal arts college. NYU is a giant research university, and that’s one of the reasons I feel like I might still be unhappy here even if I transferred into CAS. But from the testimonies on this board, I really am coming to believe that Barnard has something unique to offer in that regard. I know that sounds like an incredible 180 from my stance a few days ago, and it is. That’s why College Confidential is awesome.</p>

<p>Calmom - You didn’t imply anything negative about LSP. That was just me getting defensive again. In fact, I thought at first that the reason I felt under-challenged in my classes was because the curriculum is based on LSP and they have lower standards, but now I’m not so sure. At any rate, I’m taking two CAS classes next semester so I can get a sense of what it’s like and from there make an informed decision about whether or not I want to transfer. </p>

<p>I think you bring up a very interesting point with regard to my obsession with the idea of a Core curriculum. There’s a distinct possibility it could be a way for me to actually avoid making a choice about which field I want to specialize in. The problem, as I’ve stated, is that I’m interested in everything - I could literally see myself majoring in English, Philosophy, Comparative Literature, Spanish, International Relations, Art History, any kind of history really - and being perfectly content BUT for the fact that I would simultaneously want to be majoring in everything else. And I think you’re right that with that mentality I could very easily become a dilettante who possesses superficial knowledge about most intellectual topics but little deeper understanding. </p>

<p>I think the counterpoint to that is that I am very good at meta-cognition - I constantly make connections between even seemingly disparate subjects without trying. I think that in that respect I could really benefit from the foundational survey approach because not only would I be legitimately interested in the Core curriculum material but I also think I could apply it to more in-depth studies well. That’s an inherently subjective opinion based on an intellectually honest, albeit biased, assessment of my own skills. However, I definitely see your point about how it could be an impediment to delving deeper (forgive the cliche) into any one subject, and I will take it into consideration.</p>

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<p>But my point is that at a college like Barnard, students are required to meet a broad range of general ed requirement (9 ways of knowing), but at least in some cases they fill those requirements with an array of more in-depth subjects. So they are taking an array of courses from different disciplines, and they are able to draw connections between the courses simply because they are smart and they have a huge amount of reading for each of the 4 or 5 different subjects each week. </p>

<p>It’s possible your indecision about a major may stem from the lack of depth – it’s really easy to feel you are interested in a lot of different things when you are only studying them superficially, much easier to get a sense of what you want to focus on when you are put through tougher demands of in-depth study. </p>

<p>I mean, you listed possible interests in English, Philosophy, Comparative Literature, Spanish, International Relations, Art History. You could have signed up for separate courses in each at Barnard, or at most colleges like Barnard with broad distribution requirements rather than a core. Doing so might have given you a much more clear idea of which courses really intrigue you – and which you might decide that you are better off sampling than delving in.</p>

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<p>That’s a really good point, Calmom. I hadn’t thought about it in that way. I still believe that having a foundation is important, but I hadn’t considered it from that perspective. Its probably a fallacy to look at my high school experience and derive conclusions from that, too, because high school courses, while challenging, have a sort of innate shallowness to them. It’s definitely food for thought. </p>

<p>I’m really humbled by the breadth and depth of the response to my questions. This thread has caused me to challenge some of my fondest beliefs, and while I wouldn’t say they’ve been toppled, the challenge definitely still stands. My education is so important to me, and the fact that you all took the time out of your day to help me, or even prove me wrong about some of my assumptions…well, let’s just say I really appreciate it. I’m taking on a lot of debt to be here, and my family has been willing to make incredible sacrifices. I can’t afford to let any time go to waste, especially if I want to achieve my dream of going to grad school to become a professor. </p>

<p>That reminds me of another important question. You all have already given me so much useful advice that I understand if you don’t feel like answering or just want to point me towards another thread, but what is the FA situation like at Barnard? The info on the website seemed promising, but it was so vague that I had a hard time knowing what to make of it. To give you some idea of the state of things, my parents are divorced, I currently receive the maximum Pell Grant, and my mom, dad, stepmom and stepdad collectively make about $100,000 a year, if that. “NYU” and “need-based” don’t really go together in a sentence, so if the FA situation at Barnard would likely be a tremendous improvement, that’s also something I would take into consideration.</p>

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<p>My understanding is that neither Barnard nor Columbia promise to meet full need of transfer students. That doesn’t mean that you won’t get aid – it just means that not all students who transfer in are offered aid. </p>

<p>I do believe that if Barnard does offer aid, they will meet full need (as they define it) – but I’m not sure of that either. I think once they opt to give a student aid in the form of a Barnard grant, they use the same standard as for anyone else, and that aid will continued through the student’s time there. They would also insist on documentation of income/asset of both sets of parents – but it sounds like your dad & step-mom are cooperative and don’t make all that much, so it shouldn’t be a problem there. </p>

<p>To figure out what you <em>might</em> get, use a FAFSA estimator and run it twice for each set of parents. Each time you run it, run it as if that set of parents are the custodial family. Then add the two EFC’s together and you’ll get a rough idea of how Barnard sees the EFC. </p>

<p>You will still qualify for the same Pell grant, because the regular FAFSA rules apply there – and then if you got aid, Barnard would supplement it with their own grant. My guess is that you would get a lot more from Barnard than from NYU. But no guarantee – you would have to apply, get in, and then see what they offered. If you do need money and you are going to go that route, you might want to widen your horizons somewhat. If the idea of a women’s college is starting to appeal to you, you might consider Bryn Mawr or Smith. Sometimes student who are cross-admits report that those schools offer better aid than Barnard, sometimes not – it probably depends on individual circumstances.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much, that’s really helpful. Honestly, I am really stubborn and probably wouldn’t transfer unless I felt that a school that offered me better aid would also offer me a better education than NYU, despite how scary the debt seems sometimes. It’s just disheartening because I know my circumstances are bad enough that I would have gotten pretty much a full need-based ride at Columbia if I’d gotten in, and even if I hadn’t, certain wealthy people in my family (my great-grandfather for instance) would have been a lot more willing to chip in for an Ivy League school than NYU, and that just seems so unfair. I still need an education regardless, right?! But enough about that. Thanks a lot for the information.</p>

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<p>I don’t think Barnard is for you and should not apply there. It is not a backdoor to Columbia. The women that go there ARE different (even though academically similar to others across the street). What you should remember that is that a college choice is a “match to be made” not “a prize to be won”. If NYU is not right for you, then by all means, apply to where you think your right match is and go for it. But do it for the right reasons… a triple transfer would make you look a bit flaky in the eyes of a admission officer also. So, best of luck and think it through.</p>

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<p>Thanks. I honestly have no idea what I’m going to do anymore, but I appreciate the advice.</p>