I like my physics classes better than engineering. :/

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>pebbles, you bring up some interesting questions.</p>

<p>A few questions for you though. Have you done research in either engineering or physics? If you have, how was it? As a follow up to that, are you sure that you want to go off to grad school for a PhD where most of the work is not in classes but in research? If you're not quite confident that you want to go to grad school (and also have no interest in the alternative financial industry), then I'd have to advise sticking to the aero major where you can get by with a bachelors or masters. A B.S. in physics does not really open that many doors.</p>

<p>If you do want to go to grad school, then I'd probably do just physics (flexible option or whatnot; I'm not that familiar with the salient details of MIT physics degrees). As tiyusufaly and others have mentioned, it's quite common to switch from physics down to applied (or engineering) physics, which I'm guessing you would find pretty interesting (see for example if anything at <a href="http://www.aph.caltech.edu/research.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aph.caltech.edu/research.html&lt;/a> excites you). It's possible, but a little harder, to switch to other engineering disciplines.</p>

<p>Anyway, there's no real easy answer to your question. If it means anything to you, I also chose physics mostly because the classes were interesting. I find the research can be great at times, but seems a little hit-or-miss to me. And competing for tenure track positions is very intimidating, to be honest. I've also tried some work in industry, and that was just no fun at all - people were way to uptight for my tastes. Well, at least be comforted by the fact that with good grades at MIT, you'll be afforded much more flexibility than most who are in your situation.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>beprepn- Yeah, I can see that happening. I guess it's understandable to expect it, but honestly I am so on the fence about this I can't even admit to myself in leaning one way or another. Every time there's something pushing me toward physics I immediately discover something else that pushes me toward engineering, and it actually really sucks that I can't plant my foot and give 100% to either subject and makes me feel crappy every time I think about it. I'm not only rarely serious on this forum I even more rarely ask for advice, so you know this is serious.</p>

<p>cghen-</p>

<p>thanks for the thoughtful reply, it turns out that I have done research in both physics and aero/astro. Unfortunately though, the Aero/Astro research position (with the artificial gravity project) involved me doing more physics and the physics position (with ligo interferometers) involved me doing a lot of computer science, so I wasn't really able to discern much. I'm only a sophomore so there's plenty more time to take research positions, but graduation requirements are kind of stiff here and if you don't decide your major by the end of sophomore year and start working toward it you're pretty much out of luck getting out of here in 4 years (esp in engineering). I'd definitely want to go to grad school no matter what, because I'm a bit of a knowledge whore. I'd really want to learn as much as I can about something and if it means going up to PHD I'll probably do it. Is it true that an engineering PHD is useless? I haven't really thought about getting anything but a PHD eventually so I'd never really thought about that, but come to think of it, really not that many engineers out there have phds. :/ How are you doing in your physics major? Are you happy about your choice? What do you plan to do in terms of a career, grad school, etc? Thanks a lot for your help!</p>

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<p>
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...and the physics position (with ligo interferometers) involved me doing a lot of computer science, so I wasn't really able to discern much.

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First of all, let me say that anything ligo related bores me to tears - and to think I originally wanted to do astrophysics!</p>

<p>Your experience is, unfortunately, the norm for early undergrad physics research. In such a well-developed field, it's very hard to make a contribution that is not based off of peripheral skills (computer science, experimental labor, etc.) just a couple years into college. When I've, personally, tried to find more physics minded, thoughtful research experiences, I often hear things like "sure, you do know relativistic quantum field theory right?", to which I graciously reply "oh good god, I'm in over my head." As a result, it can be quite difficult to actually get a feel for how one enjoys actual physics research (be it theoretical or experimental). My guess would be that if you really enjoy the material in your physics classes, you will enjoy high-level physics research. </p>

<p>Now, if you do end up enjoying physics research, then that opens up a lot more flexibility with a physics degree. While tenure track positions are often touted as the penultimate goal for a physics PhD, there is still the flexibility of going into R&D in industry. Right now if you look at which tech companies that would be, they might not look too interesting, but in say, 10 years, there's hopefully going to be a blossoming of nanotech companies dying for people who know quantum mechanics like the back of their hands. That's where you could come in! Or even better, like how some of my cohorts hope to do, form your own physics-based startup.</p>

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I'd really want to learn as much as I can about something and if it means going up to PHD I'll probably do it. Is it true that an engineering PHD is useless?

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Hehe, both of my parents have PhDs in electrical engineering, so I'd never say it's useless! What I meant was, you can still get a very good job with just a masters in engineering, where a masters in physics is...not so comparably useful. A PhD in engineering does still help out, but less so in industry than academia (as I hear). </p>

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How are you doing in your physics major?

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I'm a junior right now, and the courses are great. My physics courses are junior year quantum mechanics (<a href="http://www.its.caltech.edu/%7Ehmabuchi/Ph125a/)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.its.caltech.edu/~hmabuchi/Ph125a/)&lt;/a>, analytical mechanics (<a href="http://www.astro.caltech.edu/%7Egolwala/ph106abc/index.html)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~golwala/ph106abc/index.html)&lt;/a>, and advanced statistical mechanics (<a href="http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/refael/phys127/)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/refael/phys127/)&lt;/a>. I'm also taking a philosophy of quantum mechanics course (fun!), and a intro to finance class which bores me to tears. I’d be very happy, except that it’s finals week here.</p>

<p>I’d say that, overall, things got really interesting for me second term last year when I took my first quantum class – it wasn’t so difficult, but it was a blast. The junior year quantum is a little easier than I’d hoped, but I’m plenty busy with the stat mech class and some research. </p>

<p>My research has turned out pretty well in terms of achievement, but the experience wasn’t always the most fun. I was relegated for a while to doing sample preparation, and believe me, I’m no chemist or material scientist. After I got some working samples for my project it was much more enjoyable – guiding actual experiments and analyzing the results (as well as eventually writing a paper). Still, eventually, I’d rather do research that makes me bust out some quantum mechanics and/or statistical mechanics. As a result, I’m more interested in the more “table-top” experiments in condensed matter physics opposed to the large bureaucracies for most high energy and astrophysics research – somewhere I can see experiments from start to finish. Focusing on CDM also gives me a bit more flexibility if I want to pursue applied physics for grad school.</p>

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Are you happy about your choice?

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Yeah, I’m pretty happy – at least right now. If I didn’t have the classes and was doing only research…I probably wouldn’t be as happy, so I’m a little ambivalent about the future. I do plan to go to grad school, for sure; it’s just the matter of finding the right group. I also have high hopes that my future research will be more generally enjoyable. </p>

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What do you plan to do in terms of a career, grad school, etc?

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No solid career plans really :/. I really just think I’ll go to grad school and see how it goes. If I can publish competitively to eventually seek out tenure at a good school, I’ll go do the postdoc - postdoc – assistant professor route. If not, I’ll look to industry where they don’t care so much about that. Recently, I’ve thought that it might be enjoyable to try to be a professor at a good LAC; I find it fun to explain physics as much as I do to learn physics, and while they do research, it’s not with nearly the same intensity as at universities. In any case, PhD seems completely necessary, if only to delay any career decisions! ;-)</p>

<p>Best of luck to you. Obviosuly read what I say with a grain of salt – I really only have one more year of experience than you, so it’s quite possible I don’t know what I’m talking about. Do make sure you’re enjoying yourself, though: it would be a damn shame to feel like you need to suffer for a few years of your life just for a little job security.</p>

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<p>Thank you sooo much!! I think I will drop one of my two majors next year because the extra stress is just not worth it.</p>

<p>By the way, if anyone is around still, could Aero/Astro engineers chime in on the availability of work for not only women in this field but especially Chinese? Are there a lot of limitations because of nationality?</p>

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<p>Also, I'm going to drop engineering. yay!</p>

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going into engineering grad without an engineering undergrad degree is pretty much unheard of.

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</p>

<p>Not in Nuclear Engineering. We are about half and half physics undergrads and NE undergrads.</p>

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<p>Generally I think you will find very little prejudice against women or Asians in the kind of big, high tech companies that hire Aero/Astro engineers. For one thing, it would be against their self interest and big companies are pretty good at self interest. We're a stodgy old engineering company and my department hires about half foreign born engineers. Our interns are about 80% women - we must scare them off as only about half take jobs with us. </p>

<p>The one exception might be where a security clearance was needed. If one has relatives in mainland China, for example, that would have been a problem getting a security clearance at one time. I don't know if that is still true.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the insight cghen. And Sax, I like your quote as well "Follow your instincts and your heart. They will lead you to where you belong. Enjoy the journey. You may be headed down a path taking you to things that don't even exist yet. How exciting is that!"</p>

<p>My son loves Mech Engineering but loves physics more. Pebbles, at this point my son is taking the Mech Engineering and the physics classes as electives when possible. He too, wants a phd and isnt' sure it will really give him a heads-up in the real world but I love your phrase Pebbles about being a "learning whore" or something like that. That's my son, lol!</p>