<p>My two top schools are Berkeley and Harvey Mudd. They are two great schools, but very different.</p>
<p>I'm afraid if I go to either, it will be so competitive that my GPA will suck and I won't get into a good grad school. I know as a senior in high school I shouldn't even worry about that, but it is important. I have a friend who went to Berkeley as a Chemical Engineer, worked his butt off and got a 3.2 GPA (2.8 is the average) and the only grad school he got accepted to was UCI. I know there are other contributing factors like undergraduate research, but I'm worried if I go to either of these school I will one, have a terrible GPA, and two, be considered stupid. I by no means expect to be the smartest. I like being surrounded by people smarter than me. I just want to know that anything between a 3.4 and 3.8 isn't completely out of my reach. :/ I heard the professors at Harvey Mudd are willing to work with the students, but I don't want to seem like a pest.</p>
<p>What do you guys think? Would I be better off going to say, UCSD? (Which is a pretty good school as well by general standards)</p>
<p>I just don't want to be screwed with my GPA and feel like an idiot compared to everyone else and not end up getting into a good grad school.</p>
<p>I know I may be worrying a bit too much, but I would really appreciate some honest advice. Thanks. : )</p>
<p>I can speak of my experience at Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>To get between a 3.4 and 3.8 you will have to work A LOT and, to be honest, have to be very smart. I know that the school includes a letter when you apply to grad schools explaining grade inflation and all so a lowish GPA isn’t the end of the world when applying to grad schools. The professors are extremely available to help and there’s upperclassmen run tutoring sessions as well. I doubt anyone will think you’re a pest since there are a lot of people who regularly go to office hours and tutoring, in some classes probably more than half of the students have to go to finish some assignments.</p>
<p>Everyone at Harvey Mudd works a lot and those wanting high GPAs have to work a lot more so if you think you aren’t pretty smart, you should have a great work ethic to compensate.</p>
<p>“you will have to work A LOT and, to be honest, have to be very smart.”</p>
<p>Isn’t everyone at HMC considered smart? Or do you mean I have to be a genius to get a high GPA? haha</p>
<p>I’m pretty smart, but I’m no genius. Will I have no life at HMC if I work hard to get a 3.6? I’d like to go out Saturday nights, maybe be in a few clubs (how many is the usual amount, btw?) and have like an hour of down time everyday after classes to chill. If I work productively for 4-6 hours a night, should I be alright?</p>
<p>Most likely, it really depends on your year and major and all. Freshman year is fairly tough but if you can work 4-6 hours every night then you’ll almost certainly be fine, depends on the student really.</p>
<p>As for clubs, a couple maybe if they don’t take a whole lot of time.</p>
<p>There is a BIG difference between an HMC engineering education and an engineering education anywhere else (besides, perhaps Olin and Caltech).</p>
<p>In the grand scheme of things, there is no substitute for getting your @$$ kicked for four years… even if you have a low GPA. I graduated with a 3.0 from HMC (which isn’t bad) and was offered a highly competitive aerospace engineering job. They did not ask for transcripts or for GPA; The 6 hour technical interview was how they compared serious applicants as apples to apples.</p>
<p>I say this: If you are at the top of your game and think you can get through Mudd with a half decent GPA, do it. If you have doubts with regards to your abilities or devotion then do not go to Mudd.</p>
<p>I’ve been posting this warning for about a year now… perhaps a hundred times:</p>
<p>IF YOU ARE DAMN SERIOUS ABOUT YOUR TECHNICAL EDUCATION, GO TO MUDD. IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS THEN DO NOT GO TO MUDD. PERIOD.</p>
<p>rocketDA - Thanks for your advise. What if a student is damn serious about his technical education AND is passionate about a hobby (in his case music… piano, sax, and especially composing) ?</p>
<p>Colorado_mom: I know a very recent graduate of Mudd who took classical guitar lessons at Pomona, played with a small ensemble with music majors from Pomona, and also played in a rock band at Mudd. So, it is possible to complete the rigorous education and still indulge in a hobby. It does require good planning, some long nights and hard work.</p>
<p>“Colorado_mom: I know a very recent graduate of Mudd who took classical guitar lessons at Pomona, played with a small ensemble with music majors from Pomona, and also played in a rock band at Mudd. So, it is possible to complete the rigorous education and still indulge in a hobby. It does require good planning, some long nights and hard work.”</p>
<p>Haha. I know him too. We call him Muffin.</p>
<p>In my opinion, curiosity is great but you really do need a certain foundation to be successful at Mudd. You are expected to have a base level of proficiency in the sciences/math before you show up.</p>
<p>Are you saying that having a passion outside of science is incompatible with having the foundation necessary to be successful at Mudd? I have a son similar to colorado_mom. He excels at science, math, etc… but guitar is his passion. Should I encourage him to look elsewhere?</p>
<p>Although I think he might be miserable if he wasn’t passionate about math and science given the core requirements, I don’t think another passion is a hinderence nor do I think that a non-math/science passion is inconsistent with having a foundation in math and science that has prepared him for Mudd. My Mudder has a non-science “passion” and he takes advanced classes in the subject at other Claremonts, as well as spending time on it out of class. Part of the Mudd philosophy is to produce scientists, mathematicians, engineers, and computer scientists who also have a strong education in the humanities. There seem to be a significant number of Mudders who have serious music and art interests. They just have to be really good at time management.</p>
<p>Thats what I was hoping. From my perspective, one of the advantages of Mudd is the Claremonth consortium, and the availability of classes outside the math/science core. My son loves science and math, but I think he would eventually be unhappy if those were the ONLY interests he could pursue.</p>
<p>“I just don’t want to be screwed with my GPA and feel like an idiot compared to everyone else and not end up getting into a good grad school.”</p>
<p>Don’t worry so much about your GPA worry about getting a good education….</p>
<p>The problem with engineers and engineer want 2 bees is they think 13 feet 6 inches means 13 feet 6 inches, most of the time it does, but not always. A 3.2 GPA from Harvey Mudd is not the same a 3.2 GPA from Muddle Through U. </p>
<p>A phone call from a Mudd Professor to a former student now teaching at MIT is going to help your grad school cause a lot more that a 3.8 GPA from a school where “no one knows your name.”</p>
<p>Also don’t miss the opportunity to take an Art History course among all of your geek stuff; it’ll pay off in the long run. If anyone ask you why you wasted your time taking an art course tell them it was so you could better understand the works of Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci. </p>
<p>“Are you saying that having a passion outside of science is incompatible with having the foundation necessary to be successful at Mudd? I have a son similar to colorado_mom. He excels at science, math, etc… but guitar is his passion. Should I encourage him to look elsewhere?”</p>
<p>This is NOT at all what I was implying. A “certain foundation” is inclusive to strong basis in mathematics and science. Purely being “passionate” about it doesn’t always cut it. You need to PURSUE your passion and take action BEFORE arriving at Mudd.</p>
<p>Now, this does NOT mean that your passion must be exclusive to everything else. For instance, I was quite committed to music as well at HMC, just like the guitarist mentioned above. In fact, [the guitarist] and I had conversations regarding music and music theory. </p>
<p>My point is too many people graduate from HS saying that they are interested in certain subjects without actually doing anything about it. They think AP classes (alone) prepare one for HMC engineering. Many times HS classes are enough, but sometimes they are not!</p>
<p>I guess I’d like to weigh in on a few things that have been mentioned here</p>
<p>Graduates from Mudd’s well-known majors, especially engineering and physics, don’t have any problem getting into whatever graduate school they want with low(er) GPA’s.</p>
<p>Graduates from Mudd biology, however, don’t seem so lucky. The guy across the hall had a 3.8 but wasn’t accepted to any graduate schools, although he only applied to like the top 4 in the country. Still, it was sort of scary.</p>
<p>At the risk of sparking (another) Mudd vs. Berkeley flame war, I think that Mudd will screw your GPA a little more than Berkely. If you’re <em>actually</em> worried about your GPA, go to one where the average GPA is pretty high and where your stats are noticeably higher than normal Maybe somewhere like CU Boulder, for example.</p>
<p>“Isn’t everyone at HMC considered smart? Or do you mean I have to be a genius to get a high GPA? haha” Yes, but we’re discussing smart vs. <em>smart</em> Lol. It doesn’t take a genius level IQ, but some people can have the greatest work ethic in the world and not rise above 3.4 while others naturally cruise at 3.6… it’s a crap shot. I’m not sure why this happens, but I suppose there are a lot of factors to consider. Also, it might get better as the years go on. As a sophomore, many of my classes could potentially still draw on high school knowledge.</p>
<p>Muddslinger -Not sure if you picked CU Boulder at random or know a bit about it. Since CU is our default choice (by cost and proximity), it would be great to learn more about Mudd advanatages. My son liked Mudd a lot, but we parents are still in sticker shock. </p>
<p>I have a hope that the engineering school-within-a-school at CU could make the size seem less overwhelming, but I’d love to hear more student feedback about Mudd (which maybe is too small?).</p>
<p>CU is an absolutely fantastic school for space sciences. I would highly recommend it if your child is interested in this field… and I’m a hardcore HMC supporter/alum.</p>
<p>I work with several people from CU and they are great. There are some really talented folks there…</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents. SwRI brings a lot to that area.</p>
<p>rocketDA - Thanks for that CU feedback. It’s funny… my space nut daughter always thought she’d end up at CU. But she far preferred the small campus atmosphere at CO School of Mines. Happily she was able to enroll in a 1-credit Space class this semester.</p>
<p>When we visited Mudd, we definitely like combo of techie-intense Mudd in consortium with the other Claremont colleges. But it’s not yet clear if my son would have time left after studies to take advantage of it.</p>
<p>Now, CO_mom, I still think that there is no substitute for a Mudd undergrad engineering education… but CU is one place that comes pretty close.</p>
<p>I think if your son/daughter is willing to make the up-front investment of getting a very strong foundation in all that is science/engineering, Mudd is the way to go. The gratification (for aerospace) isn’t as direct as CU, per se, but our abilities are quickly realized by grad schools in aerospace companies.</p>
<p>Let’s put it this way: I graduated in the middle of my class from Mudd. I was probably the most passionate/directed space science (propulsion) person at the school. I got picked up by a small private aerospace research and development company that cannot be named here. It is a very well funded, ambitious program that makes an effort not to appear on the radar of the press and internet. Everything we do is humanity-driven and non-military.</p>
<p>Of the 6-7 young people hired this last year, I was the only one with only a bachelors in engineering straight out of college…“General Engineering” in fact. Three others had a masters from Purdue in aerospace, one PhD from Michigan, one masters from CU (i think), one masters from Caltech. The other guy who got hired with only a bachelors had a year of experience at GE aircraft engine. The point is that I’m going through the same program as them and am treated the same as them. We’re effectively on a level playing field.</p>
<p>So how can this be? Because Mudd is a special place that (sometimes painfully) transforms your brain. It reorganizes the neural connections to approach problems from special trajectories that are guided by a solid foundation in math/physics/chemistry/etc. </p>
<p>Is the $200k worth it?
If you are like me and your most valuable personal asset is your brain then perhaps it is worth it. The integral rule of investment says that putting work in early will pay off much more than the same work later on. A Mudd education is a jump-start on a path that puts you in a 5-sigma advantage with respect to society. Continuing to make smart choices after puts you in position to do whatever you want, really.
For me, it was worth it!</p>
<p>So again, CU is an absolutely great school. It is more directed to space-sciences than Mudd but I feel that Mudd may have a better long-term mental investment. We’re really splitting hairs here, though.</p>
<p>rocketDA - Thanks for your insights. At this point we will just let my son apply Harvey Mudd and other schools and continue to investigate. After we see the acceptance/scholarship info, then we’ll have to consider the value-add of the more expensive options.</p>
<p>Don’t forget to look at the non-academic side of life. My biggest regret in touring colleges, Mudd included, is that I didn’t look into the types of people that attend the schools and what the popular on-campus activities. Perhaps it was just the suite of frosh and seniors that I lived with last year, but Mudd’s approval ratings in the social category were, um, disconcertingly low. That said, many people absolutely love their classmates so the average approval of non-academic life is pretty high.</p>
<p>So make sure you consider both sides of the coin. As an example of what can happen if you don’t, the chem major in my suite was accepted to all 9 graduate programs that he applied for, including a number of very prestigious programs. Unfortunately, after Mudd’s workload for four years he was too burned-out and frankly demoralized to accept any of them, so he had to defer one of his decisions and re-apply next year.</p>
<p>To end on a nicer note, I’m another hardcore fan of Mudd academics. I am 100% certain that Mudd has the absolute best combination of Outstanding (note the capital O) faculty, course selections and content, undergraduate research and academic recognition.</p>
<p>I mentioned Boulder earlier because several of my high school friends go there and I went to school in Colorado. Boulder is the best college town I’ve ever visited.</p>
Maybe somewhere like CU Boulder, for example.</p>