My daughter is very committed to a career in medicine. This is entirely her passion and not parental pressure in the slightest. We have visited a few schools and so far the ones that appeal to her would mostly be considered safeties or low matches for her stats – at least they appear to be looking at Naviance data from our school. We do have several more to see but she is really not interested in anything highly selective.
She will probably be applying to a few super high reaches in the form of BS/MD programs, but the chances of those are so low that I am not considering them as anything more than a lottery ticket.
Schools she has liked so far are Muhlenberg, Umass Amherst, Hofstra, We have yet to look at Skidmore (more of a true match) and Quinnipiac, Uconn, Suny New Paltz, and Drew.
I am perfectly happy with her desire to be in a less competitive environment, but I am getting flak from some people that we aren’t reaching high enough. My gut is to ignore those statements but I want to make sure that we are not making some huge mistake. I’m not looking for additional college suggestions – just a reality check on the plan.
Stats: 33 ACT (taking again in April)
UW GPA = probably 3.8 (not exactly sure I’m calculating this correctly but its close)
Community based EC’s - lots of involvement, no spectacular national awards.
A good amount of honors and AP classes.
There is nothing wrong with her plan. You just need to ignore those pressuring her to apply to other schools. (I know it can be hard – we had to stop talking to grandparents during D2’s search due to pressure to apply to highly selective schools she wasn’t interested in).
I think the one thing all pre-med students need, though, is a backup plan. We are awash in bio majors who didn’t make the cut to get into med school, and an undergrad bio degree alone is not very marketable. You don’t need to major in bio to be a pre-med, you just need to complete the pre-med courses. So that is something to keep in mind as she is looking at schools and majors.
@intparent Thanks! She has no backup plan. I’ve talked with her and she really can’t think of anything else she even remotely wants. She actually wants to double major in philosophy and bio because she loves both subjects-- not necessarily any more marketable. If she decides at some point that she doesn’t want medicine, we’ll figure it out then.
@ucbalumnus This site has put the fear of God in me about showing interest! I know that at least Hofstra is a true safety.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html suggests that philosophy graduates tend to do better than biology graduates, though there is a large Gini coefficient among philosophy graduates (but the low end for philosophy seems similar to that of biology, while the mid range and high end for philosophy are higher). Could that be because philosophy majors have no illusions of major-specific jobs, so they are willing to aggressively seek major-agnostic jobs, and their being good at both humanities thinking and logic gives them advantages over students in other majors?
I was just going to add another vote for be careful with the safeties. They were pretty predictable with my eldest 4-years-ago but we’ve been surprised this year with my son getting accepted to all the schools he was in the bottom half of and waitlisted at the schools he should have had no problem getting into (in the top quarter of applicants.) In fact, many kids this year have had the same problem as our son but then didn’t have the same successes with the more selective schools or didn’t apply to them. It’s been super weird!
Back in the olden days, my H majored in phil and bio before eventually heading to med school. I think that philosophy helped make him the outstanding doc he was (specialized in ethics.) Of course, it may have also led him to eventually quit and teach high school instead…
I see nothing wrong with this list. Why not add Binghamton and Buffalo (UB)? Bing would be a good match ( not a safety) and she would make honors at UB. Otherwise… Even without any additional schools… It’s a good list.
Biology does not necessarily have to be a useless major… If you have a strong undergrad resume to back it up. Just be sure to have a Plan B.
I think that’s a good list but as suggested above I’d add another SUNY school. I wouldn’t consider UMassA as a safety, especially for someone out of state, more of a match.
There is nothing wrong with your D not reaching for the Ivys or top tier schools, if she doesn’t feel those schools are the best fit for her. She is not settling for less, as a bright, highly motivated kid who takes full advantage of all the opportunities a school has to offer can achieve great things wherever she goes. It sounds like you are all very well informed and well grounded about the highly competitive college acceptance environment, and you know that just because a school looks like a match or a safety based on Naviance data, that does not mean you can count on getting in there. There is so much more to selective college admissions than GPA, SAT and ACT. I agree with @NEPatsGirl that UMASS Amherst is not longer a safety for anyone. Although your D might have an advantage there because they aggressively recruit OOS high stats kids bc those kids pay so much more in tuition, and their high stats helps with the school’s ratings. Your D should apply to schools that she can truly see herself fitting in and succeeding at, that your family can afford, and she should make sure she has true safeties. Easy to say, but ignore the negative comments about her choices–she will be attending the school, not the people giving the unsolicited advice. Best of luck to you all!
I think this is totally fine. Especially for a student looking at med or grad school. I’d just make sure she thinks she can connect socially at these schools. Do they have honors, etc? I have a high stat kid who is interested in high stat schools though the affordability of them is not a sure thing for us. Looking hard at more schools with ACT scores in the 27-32 range with merit options.
My son is not applying to any reach schools, or at least not at the moment. A high test score and high grades should make people assume a kid wants to apply to tipoy top schools. If med school is in the future, what matters are high grades in college and a good MCAT score. I think her list is fine, but I would add Stony Brook, as it’s supposed to be really good for sciences.
My D2s first choice was her safety. The other three schools she applied to at my behest were very strong matches and on the whole considered “superior” schools. Here is a response to a similar thread I started a couple of years ago so I know what its like to have people question whether or not they aimed “high enough”.
"She has a 4.43 W GPA with 9 AP courses including AP Chem, AP Calc BC, and AP Bio and AP Psychology all of which will be of use to her in her major. She has a 33 ACT.
I’m going to apologize in advance for what I’m sure will be construed as offensive to some.
Why is she aiming so low?
There are kids at Princeton with worse stats than your daughter."
She was accepted everywhere and her safety was not the least expensive option. She had nearly identical stats to your D and rather then pre-med wanted to pursue a pre PT path which is similar but without OChem. She loves her school and is doing VERY well. Being a top student can have it’s advantages. It may allow her to have opportunities that would be more difficult to be competitive for at more competitive schools. I think this is just something you don’t need to worry about. In many ways it’s a blessing. She won’t have to worry too much about rejection and will likely have more financial options. Good luck.
The poster who mentioned admissions criteria for medical school is making the key point. If the student feels certain about medical school, then it is important to be sure that the undergraduate experience contributes to that competitive medical school application. At the schools that are listed by the original poster (identified as safeties), it will be necessary to earn very high grades. This is the key evidence, overall, coming from the research literature that looks at the question of advantage to attending so-called elite schools - the advantage to those students in grad school admissions can be overcome by earning VERY high grades as an undergraduate at “non-elite” schools. Probably not a problem for the student in question but still, something to consider. Of course, this has to be balanced against the need to avoid accumulating a lot of debt as an undergraduate, given that medical school is expensive!
The entire system seems very unpredictable to me. My child was accepted at one safety, one match, one high reach (GC and we determined this by naviance data and common data sets). Waitlisted at one of each, too. And rejected by a spread of others. He has a 35 ACT and around a 3.8. You just never know so I’d say she should throw a reach or two in there but be sure the safeties are real safeties.
He’s looking at a possible double major in theatre and EMS.