I need help choosing

<p>The advice that you have been getting is pretty sound, though I have a feeling that it is not quite what you want to hear. </p>

<p>I suggested part of what I thought was the difference, but since you thought I was unclear, I'll be more blunt. </p>

<p>At the risk of overgeneralizing the differences between 2 schools more similar than different, Pomona has MUCH better weather, more rich kids, more preppies, more Easterners, more Westerners, more kids who at home would scope out the right gym to join, more attention to being fit and looking good, MUCH better clothes, more makeup on women, more traditionally ambitious students, more grade-grubbers, and students who are less driven by the love of learning than at Carleton. </p>

<p>Are you like that, or do you like to hang around kids like that? In other words, how cool are you? Did you run with the cool kids in high school? If you did, you'd probably fit in great at Pomona. If you didn't, you'd probably be happier at Carleton. </p>

<p>Carleton is the modern small college equivalent of what the University of Chicago used to be before it decided to admit "well-rounded" students and thus become "Northwestern light": the school for brilliant, quirky social misfits.</p>

<p>I remember my daughter's overnight at Carleton and our official tour in zero weather in a recent Feb. There were 2 student guides (male and female) and they spent something like 2.5 hours showing us around, even though there were just a total of 2 prospective students and 3 parents taking the tour. We even got to see the male guide's room, which was a MESS. </p>

<p>They were two of the nicest young people I've ever met. At the end of the (Sat. afternoon) tour, we asked whether their tour job was part of their work-study financial aid award. They both said that they were volunteers who were not being paid at all. We were stunned. At every other school we visited after Carleton, we asked student guides if they were being paid and of course every other one, without exception, was being paid.</p>

<p>Because my daughter had expressed interest in Sci-Fi during the tour, when later that evening the male guide saw us in the dining hall, he grabbed his roommate, who was into Sci-Fi, and brought him over to meet our daughter. The roommate promptly asked her if she wanted to come to Sci-Fi night at Benton House that night (she couldn't because we were leaving).</p>

<p>The night before our tour, the student who was hosting my daughter in her room took my daughter to a group that was performing/reading a series of one-act plays written by Carleton students. My daughter was assigned parts in two plays and performed (read) them that night in front of the small audience.</p>

<p>Then, when she was going to sleep on the floor of her host's room, a guy in a nearby room came in to tell her bedtime stories, including some obscure medieval German ones. </p>

<p>During admitted students weekend, the president of the college said that during student orientation they actually try to drum into Carleton students that they shouldn't try to be cool by being cynical, condescending, and negative, that striking a world-weary attitude is not a sign of intelligence.</p>

<p>I hope by now you are getting an idea of what I am trying to say. As I said on another thread, but which someone was kind enough to quote on this one, Carleton students are the nicest, least cliquish students I've ever seen--and I've taught courses as a prof. (or visiting prof.) at six universities (I'm a Northwestern prof.) and guest lectured at dozens more.</p>

<p>Let me be even blunter. </p>

<p>Ask yourself this question: Are you decent, interesting, and intellectual enough to be a Carleton student or would you be happier running with an equally bright, but socially faster, better dressed, and slightly more superficial crowd?</p>

<p>An earlier poster referred to Pomona as having more prestige than Carleton. I'm not sure about that. It's somewhat more selective, but is as little known to the masses outside of California as Carleton is outside of the Northern midwest. Too bad, because both are terrific schools, and it was endlessly frustrating for my daughter that people so often said "huh?" when she mentioned them as schools she was interested in. (Accepted to both; attending Carleton, class of 2011.) ... MerryXmas--Your eloquence regarding Carleton is impressive! Now I'm more pleased than ever to have an incoming freshman there this fall!</p>

<p>I think Pomona admits more low-income students than Carleton. Pomona is completely need-blind during admission. It allows Pomona to increase the socioeconomic diversity of the students. I've read that about half of students at Pomona are on financial aid.</p>

<p>From school's respective Common Data Sets, 2006-7, for all undergraduates:</p>

<p>Carleton 56%
Pomona 54%
Swarthmore 49%
Amherst 47%
Williams 43%</p>

<p>Remarkably, unlike other top LACs which have aggressively publicized their efforts to recruit an economically diverse student body, Carleton has quietly maintained the most financially diverse group of the lot with little fanfare. I suspect much of this reflects a campus culture that has long promoted an accepting, non-exclusionary atmosphere.</p>

<p>Wow! The description of Pomona by MerryXmas is beyong 'blunt" and beyond recognition. Grade grubbers and superficial rich students? Not the Pomona we have come to know this year. My daughter chose Pomona instead of Carleton last year, but felt no need to bash Carleton and its student body in order to justify her choice. She loved Carleton and was very torn between the two schools.</p>

<p>Carleton and Pomona attract so many of the same students that it is ludicrous to attempt to draw such a disparaging picture of Pomona in order to promote the truly wonderful attributes of Carleton and its students.</p>

<p>Zan...I agree...there is no need to denigrate one school to boost another. I am always amazed at people that come over to the Carleton boards to tell us why Carleton is lacking in their eyes--when they don't even attend Carleton in the first place. What they need to do is just stick to "pro" their school over on their boards. All colleges have all archetypes among their students. I'm sure you can find preppies at Carleton and veggies at Pomona. Carleton does have research opportunities and job opportunities but they don't fall out of the sky and into your lap. Why does college selection have to culminate in "is this the place that will make me rich, famous, and get into the best graduate program ever?" What happened to going to college to learn? Why do people feel that if they aren't on a research team to cure cancer by the end of freshman year that their life is over? If you want to go Ivy, fine. If you don't, that's fine, too. Like the big state uni? Go for it! Want something smaller and more intimate? By all means feel free to pick that environment. </p>

<p>I think some people just want validation that they picked the best school. For your daughter that was Pomona. For my son that was Carleton. I'm glad there are great options for both of them. (BTW my son also chose between Pomona and Carleton)</p>

<p>Thanks Texastaximom! Carleton and Pomona are such great schools, and students admitted to both frequently have to reluctantly decline one or the other. In my daughter's case, it was tough and came down to the wire. She loved so much about both schools.</p>

<p>What's that line from "Sweet Home Alabama?" ..."you can't ride two horses with one ass" or something like that. I think it is hard for a lot of the kids to pick between their top schools. Not everyone has that one dream school. I am really glad that there are many places where kids can be happy, or we'd all be trying to shoehorn in to one college! I am definitely biased towards Carleton, but I keep it over here, on the Carleton boards. :p</p>

<p>I have no idea what college I want to go to. I will be starting my junior year in high school this fall. I am thinking I want to go somewhere in minnesota such as Carleton, St. Benedicts, Gustavus, Macalester, St. Kates or St. Olaf. But Im not sure where. I really need help! I want to go to school for nursing, but I also want it to have a good orchestra program. Does Carleton have a nursing program or not?</p>

<p>No, Carleton does not have a nursing program.</p>

<p>Check this weblink:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.mnprivatecolleges.org/audiences/thinking.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mnprivatecolleges.org/audiences/thinking.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Minnesota private colleges have a special week, June 25-29, to tour the colleges. If you tour four or more, then you can get application fee waivers.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>MerryXmas, you obviously have no real experience with Pomona at all. The way you portray Pomona through your comparisons with Carleton is absurd and completely inaccurate. You seem to base your perception of Pomona on your stereotypes of California. Please stick to what you know about Carleton. Also, the statistic that shows a slightly larger percentage of students who receive aid at Carleton does not take into account that Carleton offers merit-aid scholarships.</p>

<p>Btw, my friend at Pomona had a Carleton biology major working in her lab last summer because of limited research opportunities at her school. There are an ample amount of research opportunities at Pomona, particularly in the sciences. I don't know of any science major at Pomona who wanted to do research and wasn't able to do so because of funding reasons.</p>

<p>Actually, alas, Carleton only offers the tiny National Merit scholarship--$2,000 annually for NM finalists, applied to a $45,000 per year overall cost. My understanding is that Pomona also offers the NMF merit award, but fewer of the incoming freshmen actually get it. In other words, NM finalists admitted to Pomona do not automatically receive the award. ... </p>

<p>MerryXmas may have had a bad experience visiting Pomona. (Correct me if I'm wrong, MerryX.) When taking my daughter on college visits last year, good--or terrible--impressions of a school could be based on something as simple as a single somewhat negative experience. Vassar, for example, was mostly empty when we visited during a school break; it came across as beautiful but cold and not particularly friendly, which I'm certain is not the case. ... A cranky, disaffected overnight host at Macalester caused that school to drop from #1 on my daughter's list to near the bottom. On her next stop, she visited Carleton, where her host was friendly and enthusiastic about her school, and the impression rubbed off. </p>

<p>I grew up about three miles from Pomona and knew full well what an amazing school it was/is. The campus is charming, the students quite amiable, the academics superb. To me, its always seemed like a hip, neat community made up of very bright people. When my daughter finally narrowed her search down to three or four schools, including Carleton and Pomona, my primary reason for preferring C over P was the smog at certain times of year in the San Gabriel Valley. Having lived there for 30 years, I knew it could be torturous, especially for people with any kind of respiratory problem. I also was horrified at the idea of her traveling the California highways on a regular basis, from the mountains to the sea. At Carleton, she and everyone else will be car-less. Of course, I'm an overprotective mother, so I think of these things!</p>

<p>I am seriously getting tired of the "Carleton doesn't have research opportunities" line. The students manage to get them or find them...who cares where they are as long as you are doing research? Carleton encourages students to go elsewhere for part of their studies. If you want those opportunities, they can be had. We aren't located square in the middle of Washington DC, either, and yet there are DC poli sci internships to be had and a semester in DC program to take. Find something else to poke at. </p>

<p>We all want to validate our choices by championing the school that was chosen. The key is to not take another school down in the process.</p>

<p>A couple things. First, I think it is a valid point that Carleton may have fewer IN HOUSE research opportunities. Not necessarily a weakness, as going elsewhere for research during summers could be considered a plus. However, for some students who may not like packing up and going to a different part of the country for the summer, and would rather stay in the familiar environment of their own school, it could be a minus.</p>

<p>I agree with gnatcire that Pomona students don't really tend toward well-dressed, social types who were popular in high school. There are some of those, and there are some crunchy granola types, and some math geek types, and some artsy types.... it's all over the map. And most people respect each other, and frankly would resent being squashed into "types" like I just did. (I only did it to give you a feel of the diversity.) </p>

<p>Hindoo, the smog problem may be somewhat better than when you were growing up. It's still unpleasant (I've addressed this on other threads), but not, in my opinion, a reason to turn down Pomona unless you have serious respiratory problems.</p>

<p>I think the Carleton vs. Pomona decision is a tough one, and really might come down to what kind of weather/part of the country/nearby culture the student prefers. Neither one is worse or better than the other, just very different.</p>

<p>Air quality at Pomona might have been an issue in the past; it doesn't seem to be now. As seen in this graph <a href="http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/o3hist-trend.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/o3hist-trend.pdf&lt;/a> , air quality has improved several fold over the past few decades.</p>

<p>In fact, according to these numbers <a href="http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/cap/rank-counties-exposure.tcl?how_many=25&pollutant=o3_8hr&fips_state_code=37%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/cap/rank-counties-exposure.tcl?how_many=25&pollutant=o3_8hr&fips_state_code=37&lt;/a> it's not much worse than where I live here in NC, certainly not <em>known</em> for smog.</p>

<p>Air Quality Index/ Ozone level</p>

<p>LA 212/0.15
NC 174/0.11</p>

<p>I haven't been back to my old California haunts since 1997, but I've been told by friends that the smog situation has improved. Thank goodness, because it was a killer back in the day!</p>

<p>gnatcire:</p>

<p>Correcting two mistaken points:</p>

<p>First, to reinforce what Hindoo has stated, while Carleton participates with the National Merit Scholarship program, they do not otherwise offer merit-based scholarships. Many students do receive NMF money as Carleton enrolls more NMF finalists than any other LAC - about 16% of each entering class. </p>

<p>Secondly, Carleton does boast the largest number of students receiving financial aid among the top LACs. Those for Pomona are negligibly lower. The percentages I quoted are correct. These are need-based numbers only and do not include NMF scholars. The data is readily available on each college’s respective Common Data Set for 2006-7. </p>

<p>Finally, I have a great personal fondness for Pomona. If I were to name the great low-profile colleges in the country deserving of household name branding, Carleton and Pomona probably would head that list. Part of what contributes to their greatness is that they attract so many remarkable students prioritizing substance and fit over that very branding. In the controversial post being alluded to in this discussion, I, for one, focused on MerryXmas’</p>

<p>“At the risk of overgeneralizing the differences between 2 schools more similar than different…” </p>

<p>I suspect he would agree that that was his single most important message.</p>