I need help!!!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Dear Parents,</p>

<p>I really need some advice about where I should apply next year. I am homeschooled and have just finished my junior year. However, I take some classes at the high school and college. I'm highly confused about my chances in college admissions because my record ranges from really good to sort of weak.</p>

<p>First of all, my test scores are really good. I just got back my SAT scores and they are 800CR, 800M, and 710W with a 9 essay. I got a 34 on the ACT. My essay scores are weak because I simply can't write well in 30 minutes. I need time to think about what I want to say.</p>

<p>My grades are also pretty good, except for a couple Bs freshman year, but I haven't taken any AP tests. The local high school only offers one AP (I live in North Dakota), and I'm taking it next year. I would take more college classes for dual credit, but it gets expensive. My family is not rich. Nevertheless, I have taken three classes my junior year in the humanities and am taking COllege Biology this summer. I guess I don't know if my academic preparation will be good enough for acceptance.</p>

<p>Finally, I'm very involved in music and public speaking extracurriculars but haven't excelled in any of them. The highest I've got was 9th in extempraneous speaking at state. I also work to pay for my classes.</p>

<p>I know my extracurricular achievements are not on par with the ivies, but I don't really know at what level of schools I would have a chance of acceptance. If anybody could point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it.</p>

2

<p>My younger son sounds similar to you in many ways, although his SAT scores are appreciably lower. He has been homeschooled all through school, but has taken some classes at the local high school and some at the community college--about the same number of CC classes as you. He also only has one AP, as not too many are offered at the high school and most are in social sciences, NOT his strong area of interest.</p>

<p>The first thing to note is that many colleges, including Stanford, do not even look at freshman grades. So those B's may not matter much, if at all. The colleges will also note that AP classes are not really available and will appreciate your initative in taking cc classes to make up for that. My older son, who is graduating from Stanford next month, had only one AP, along with one year of Japanese, astronomy, and engineering at the community college. He was a legacy, which helps some, but otherwise his EC's were not any better than yours. Also bear in mind that many colleges are not yet paying a lot of attention to the new SAT essay, since it is so new.</p>

<p>My younger son is also very much into music. He never won at state or anything, but was part of a well-known youth orchestra and involved in many music activities. He received acceptances at some nice music schools, but was waitlisted at Stanford and Oberlin. However, as I mentioned above, he did not do as well on the SAT, particularly the Verbal part, so we know the reason for the waitlist...</p>

<p>Where you live, of course, will make a difference. If not much is available where you live, the colleges will understand that. You may even have an advantage, as many top colleges do not receive as many applications from North Dakota as from the bigger states and may want you for diversity. Homeschooling can also be a positive for the same reason.</p>

<p>Do you know what you want to study in college? Are you interested in a big or small school? What part of the country? What do you most want in a college? Answer these, and people here will probably be able to provide a great list of colleges to look into. (There are some really smart people on these boards!)</p>

3

<p>I will defer to Mini and some of the other home schooler expert parents on recommending a specific range of colleges. However, based on the information you provided, you sound like a strong applicant for many very good schools to me. The APs won't be a problem. The fact that you worked to pay for your courses will be viewed very positively, so much so that I would consider working that into one of your essays.</p>

<p>I can't comment on "the Ivies" because that football conference includes schools with a wide range of admissions selectivity and schools that appeal to different students -- different enough that it would be odd to find one student that even likes all of the schools in that football conference. For example, it would be hard to find two schools more different than Columbia and Dartmouth.</p>

4

<p>In our experience, with your scores, college records, experience, and geographic location, you will be welcomed at hundreds of places. I know my d. was. So more has to do with what you are in fact looking for. Rural/suburban/urban, big/medium/little, strongly committed to study abroad?, potential majors, weather, east/west, strong music programs? sciences? Are you male or female?</p>

<p>From talking with other families with top candidates, we found virtually all fine PRIVATE colleges homeschool-friendly, and virtually all have accepted homeschoolers. Those among the private top tiers that have been found particularly welcoming have included (in my limited experience) Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Williams, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Bard, Earlham, Reed, Macalester, Brown, Swarthmore, and Amherst. Oh, add in Beloit, Knox, and Colorado College. There are some that I know have accepted homeschoolers but whose admissions offices have been a bit more difficult to deal with, and I choose not to list them here, because, for all I know, things have changed.</p>

5

<p>Are there any significant differences in your grades in your formal high school and college courses and your homeschooled courses?
I agree with the other posters - you may be a strong candidate for many different schools because of your "different" background.
It would help if you list the classes you have taken, and whether each was at home/high school/cc - also your GPA, the individual grades are less important, unless all the Bs are in one subject area, or are too much out of freshman year.</p>

6

<p>I am leaning towards English or Music, but I'm also interested in history. I absolutely love reading and discussing great books. I'm definitely an intellectual as apposed to a pre-professional. I'd prefer a small school with a tight-knit student body and little drinking. I would also prefer a college on the moderate but leaning conservative end of the political spectrum.</p>

<p>As an Evangelical christian, I would also like there to be a strong minority of conservative christian students to support me in my faith. I've found some christian schools I would like, such as Wheaton, but they don't have the financial resources to help me in paying for college.</p>

<p>My family makes close to 60,000 dollars year and can't afford to pay for a 30,000 dollar a year school without a lot of financial aid. I don't need all of the things I named, except for financial aid, but they still show the kind of school I'd like. Oh, I'm male and I would enjoy living in an artsy medium-sized city.</p>

<p>Academically, my gpa will be around a 3.93 when I graduate. The two Bs were in English and Speech my freshman year. Actually, my academic record is pretty weak freshman year, which worries me. For example, I didn't take any math.</p>

<p>The reason for this, though, might actually serve as an admissions hook. My freshman year, my family had just moved back from Ireland, where my parents had been serving as missionaries. The experience had not been a happy one for me as I never really figured out how to fit in with the teenagers over there. Furthermore, I was in the Irish public school system, and everyone knows Europe has a much more difficult educational system than America. I had the highest English grade in my class with a 75%!!! I came back to America mentally exhausted and depressed and just couldn't function at the top of my ability for that first year.</p>

<p>I have caught up in math, though. I took both Algebra 1 and Geometry sophomore year, and am taking Precalculus this summer. I'll be taking Calculus this fall. Actually, my grades are higher at the high school and college than at home. I had a 102% at Chemistry midterms and I only missed two points on my College Comp papers. Will colleges see that as a rising record?</p>

<p>I have one last question. I'm an avid reader and composer and was wondering if these could help me in admissions. I discovered my love for music composition only within the last year, so I haven't been able to submit to any competitions yet. It's hard to perfect music when one is running around all the time. :) I'm hoping to work hard on my music this summer, though. I also spend a lot of time reading and design my own English classes. My sophomore year I read, two Shakesperean plays, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Night, three poetry books, Paradise Lost, Tale of Two Cities, Wuthering Heights, Lord of the Flies, and a few other books for English. I also audited Intro to the Novel at the college and read a selection of American Novels for it. This year, I took American Literature at the college first semester and read a selection of great novels like Moby Dick and Grapes of Wrath second semster. If I submitted a reading list, would this look impressive to elite colleges? I also read U.S. News, Time, National Geographic, and the Smithsonian every month and the paper when I have time.</p>

7

<p>A school that sounds like it would meet your needs (strong Christian with good academics) and gives out completely free rides to qualified students (as it sounds you are) is Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, MI. Take a look!</p>

8

<p>I was home-schooled as a kid and only switched to public school over the stressful years leading up to and following the move. I think homeschooling helps to create a passion for learning and allows more freedom to move at your own pace. It was because of public school starting in 6th grade that I got behind in math. I was taking pre-algebra as a fifth grader...grrrr. I love homeschooling because it allows me to take more classes at the college. High school students have to take at least seven classes at the high school even if they're really east. It also allows me to spend more time studying and less time prepping for tests. Because of this, I was able to write a 10 page research paper as a freshman on the causes of the Islamic Revolution in Iran for World Studies and English and I studied all the books the senior class at the high school reads plus more. I'm just comfortable with individual, self-driven courses. However, I am taking most of my classes at the high school or college next year because I'm getting to the point where it is much harder to self-teach than in earlier grades.</p>

9

<p>Thank you guilt guru. I'll look into Hillsdale.</p>

10

<p>Many Evangelical Christian homeschoolers with top academic records go to Wheaton in Illinois. Don't know about their composition program. You might also take a long look at St. Olaf's, with a superb music program, fine academics, and Christians of every stripe. Neither of these two are in "artsy cities". Anyone know much about Pepperdine?</p>

<p>All the schools I mentioned earlier will have small pockets of evangelicals (well, maybe not Bard or Reed), but I doubt you'd find "strong" minorities (numerically) at any of them.</p>

11

<p>Lawrence University in Wisconsin might be another alternative. They have a conservatory and have a five year program where you can get a degree in music along with a degree is the college (science, humanities, English, etc.) I am not sure how strong their English program is, as my son was looking into science and music, but you could check it out. They say they are split about 50-50 as far as liberal/conservative. And they offered my son an excellent scholarship, along with need-based aid. (more grants and fewer loans than anywhere else he was accepted) My son chose to go elsewhere because he wanted a bigger school with more opportunities in music, but if you are looking for a smaller liberal arts college that is very friendly and caring, you might look into it.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Mini: All the schools I mentioned earlier will have small pockets of evangelicals (well, maybe not Bard or Reed), but I doubt you'd find "strong" minorities (numerically) at any of them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Mini--you might be surprised how things have changed. And it sounds like things are going to grow even more.</p>

<p>The New York Times just had a story this week on the growing and increasingly visible presence of evangelical Christians at Ivy League Colleges.</p>

<p>The focus of the article was on Brown, and here's what the NYT said:</p>

<p>
[quote]
NYT: But these days evangelical students like those in Mr. Havens's prayer group are becoming a conspicuous presence at Brown. Of a student body of 5,700, about 400 participate in one of three evangelical student groups- more than the number of active mainline Protestants, the campus chaplain says.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And it sounds as though the movement is growing on all the Ivy campuses:</p>

<p>
[quote]
NYT: Now a few affluent evangelicals are directing their attention and money at some of the tallest citadels of the secular elite: Ivy League universities. Three years ago a group of evangelical Ivy League alumni formed the Christian Union, an organization intended to "reclaim the Ivy League for Christ," according to its fund-raising materials, and to "shape the hearts and minds of many thousands who graduate from these schools and who become the elites in other American cultural institutions."</p>

<p>The Christian Union has bought and maintains new evangelical student centers at Brown, Princeton and Cornell, and has plans to establish a center on every Ivy League campus. In April, 450 students, alumni and supporters met in Princeton for an "Ivy League Congress on Faith and Action." A keynote speaker was Charles W. Colson, the born-again Watergate felon turned evangelical thinker.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/national/class/EVANGELICALS-FINAL.html?%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/national/class/EVANGELICALS-FINAL.html?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There is a huge diversity of religious groups on the campuses of the schools Mini mentioned, but iit sounds to me as though evangelical Christians are a significant and growing presence. The 400 students at Brown (larger than the number of active mainline Protestants, possibly larger than the number of students active in any other religious groups aside from Hillel and Newman) sounds like more than a "small pocket" to me.</p>

<p>I'm not an evangelical Christian myself, but I know a sizeable number of very academically prepared evangelical Christians who are planning to apply to Ivy League schools for fall 2006. A few years ago, their parents would have been horrified at the prospect. Now their parents are still concerned about the temptations their children may face, but they are very supportive of their sons' ambitions. They feel that these schools offer an opportunity for an important mission for their sons to do outreach, bear witness, and set an example for others. (Interestingly enough, I don't know any such parents encouraging their daughters to apply--only sons.)</p>

13

<p>Mini, homeschoolmom, and the other homeschooling parents are the experts here, but I would add one piece of advice: consider taking several of the SAT II subject tests. Perhaps one in math, science or history, and literature. This seems to help schools evaluate a home schooler's academic background a little more easily. </p>

<p>There was a father who homeschooled both his children who used to be on CC. If I remember correctly, he had his daughters include a "reading list" of books that they had read in the past year with their applications. Since you're an avid reader, this might be a great idea for you. He also felt strongly that they were ahead of the game because they applied early in the year (I'm talking September or October), thus giving schools more time to evaluate their unique homeschool background under less pressure and ask any necessary questions. He also believed that essays and interviews were incredibly important to their getting accepted to their schools. One daughter went to Wellesley, one to Kenyon, but they both had many other acceptances to excellent schools as well. Mini is correct: being homeschooled is not a handicap in admissions and may even be a plus in some ways these days.</p>

<p>IN addition to the great suggestions you've already received, You might also take a look at Gordon College, Whitworth College, Hope College and Calvin College, all excellent schools academically with an evangelical Christian perspective. You might also want to check out some of the more conservative schools in the South, such as Baylor and Furman. I really like Mini's suggestion of St. Olaf - they would be very, very pleased to receive an application from someone with your stats. Not only do they have a terrific music program, but their English and history programs are wonderful as well. I'm not sure that I would call St. Olaf evangelical, though. They are pretty mainstream Lutheran. If that's not a problem for you, also look into Luther College in Iowa, a school with a similar feel and student body.
But their student body is on the conservative side.</p>

14

<p>Whoops, I almost forgot two other things.</p>

<p>Here is a link to the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities, which has many fine evangelical Christian schools in its membership. <a href="http://www.cccu.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cccu.org/&lt;/a> The link to their student information site is: <a href="http://www.christiancollegementor.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.christiancollegementor.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also, if you do decide to include some more mainstream colleges on your list, I would highly recommend you get hold of a book called Choosing the Right College, The ISI Guide, IBSN 1-882926-98-6, which describes the political and social cultures at many of the more selective schools in the country from a conservative point of view.</p>

15

<p>Well, I never would have called 400 out of 5,700 a "strong minority", at least numerically. (i mean, we're talking a maximum of 7% here.) All of these colleges do have them (though, again, I don;t know about Bard and Reed); I know there is a group at Smith, and sizeable group at Earlham. </p>

<p>Most of the better colleges, even if they don't require SAT IIs for other students, will usually require or strongly recommend them for homeschoolers. (Columbia goes a little nuts, and requires 5 or 6, as I remember.)</p>

<p>St. Olaf's is not evangelical, but would have a much stronger evangelical presence than the Ivies, and it would likely be a friendly place. Substantially stronger in music than most, if not all, of the Ivies as well.</p>

16

<p>Thank you for all your quality advice. Wheaton is still my 'dream' school, but Hillsdale and St. Olaf both seem like schools I would like with good merit scholarships. I'm still open to any more comments on where I should apply.</p>

17

<p>Yea Carolyn, I was going to recommend that book to him. And, second Mini about St. Olaf's, I don't know about the strength of instrumental composition, but many well known composers of mainstream contemporary (not praise band type music) Christian choral music have been in and around St. O.
I highly recommend you read the NYT articles cited. They are thought provoking, especially for a young Christian. As an active, devout (I hope, I think) mainline Christian with evangelicals in the woodwork, but not in the house, I applaud the re-assertion of prayer and Christian presence on these campuses, but I'm a little queasy about the idea of "influencing ... the elites of other American cultural institutions". </p>

<p>Anywho, I diverge, you should think about size and whether you will be happy in the minority (and how big that minority should be) or if you need to go to a Christian school. Any Southern school of any size will have a sizeable, open, accepted Christian presence, plus fifteen different churches from the community sending buses to campus to pick up students on Sunday morning. They don't call us the Bible Belt for nothing! Plus the general tone of the campus will be secular at most schools.
Take a hard look at Davidson - might be a very good choice, although they don't have the best merit aid, you might be unusual enough to hit the merit aid jackpot there, and it is a top-notch academic place, with reasonable fine arts, and a close major airport. Furman, Samford and B'ham-Southern would be safeties, Rhodes, Mercer, and Vandy, other possibilities of varying selectivity.</p>

<p>ND will be a big hook in the South, so the schools that want to be national - Vandy, Rhodes, Davidson, possibly Furman, Univ of Richmond (don't know anything about their music) will very possibly be forthcoming with bucks.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
Mini: Well, I never would have called 400 out of 5,700 a "strong minority", at least numerically. (i mean, we're talking a maximum of 7% here.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I'd put the numerical metric in the context of the original poster's words: He expressed a desire for a "strong minority of conservative Christian students to support me in my faith." I'd think that 400 students just in the three large organized prayer groups alone is a pretty significant number that could provide strong support for one's faith. (There may also be a number of smaller prayer groups as well--I know some evangelical Christians prefer smaller prayer groups to big ones.) </p>

<p>And, as the article points out, there is a real push among evangelical Christians to increase those numbers further. My sense, from the evangelical Christians I've talked to, is that there is a real "critical mass" phenomenon going on at the Ivy Leagues in particular. Stanford and MIT too, I think. (I don't believe schools like Bard, Reed, etc. are on their radar screen as a priority though. The external change agents seem to be focusing on the large well-known universities, rather than the small liberal arts colleges. That makes sense--if you're going to raise funds to buy a building and support an outreach minister, you might as well focus on the larger schools so your resources go farther. And it's probably easier to raise the needed funds from external donors to buy those houses and support outreach ministers for the large well-knwon schools than for the small but excellent liberal arts colleges like Reed and Bard, which their donors may have never heard of.)</p>

<p>All of this is somewhat moot for the original poster, however, since the explicitly targeted schools which are attracting growing interest from evangelical Christians are big ones, and he's said that he would prefer a small school.</p>

19

<p>Eeek. Please not too many evangelical Christians at the Ivies. Or at least not at Princeton. Or at least not more than I was there....</p>

20

<p>taoigh --</p>

<p>You asked for additional suggestions that may fit your criteria. One school that may be worth checking out is Kalamazoo College (my current obsession). Kalamazoo is not an evangelical Christian college, but it attracts a fair number of students with those beliefs. The reason why Kalamazoo comes to mind is that you appear to be a serious student, looking for a school with a strong liberal arts tradition and a place not known for a party-type atmosphere. Kalamazoo is known as a writing intensive place with a very strong overseas study program. It seems to be a place where students are expected to work hard -- and, for the most part, they do. While they have a music program, I personally cannot attest to its quality. To me, Kalamazoo strikes me as the perfect place for a student who desires to maximize their educational opportunities. </p>

<p>A second place that you may want to check out is Houghton College in upstate New York. While I realize that it is dangerous to draw broad conclusions on such a small sample size, the two people I personally know who went to Houghton spoke highly of the quality of the education they received. Houghton is a liberal arts college that focuses on writing. Unlike Kalamazoo, Houghton is a decidedly Christian place with an evangelical bent where you will not be in the minority in terms of your religious beliefs. One of Houghton's better-known programs (if that is not an oxymoron) is its music major. While Houghton can be rather strict with its rules of conduct, some individuals may view these policies as positives. </p>

<p>Good luck with your search.</p>