<p>Well if you want to consult crime - see ucrime.com It will show you all the events at all the campus’. </p>
<p>As for food, my D would absolutely say this is an issue and not funny. She likes spaghetti, beef stroganoff, stew, pot roast, lamb chops, asparagus, broccoli, string beans, homemade soups etc - “real” food. She never expected to go to college and never see these again. The diet at college seems to be hamburgers, burritos, and chicken fingers. She claims the lettuce in the salad bar doesn’t taste like real lettuce. After hitting college going out to TGIF and having a steak and baked potato is a thrill she would never have imagined.</p>
<p>“Ucrime.com Disclaimer: The data made available here has been modified for use from its original source. Neither Ucrime.com nor our data sources make any claims as to the completeness, accuracy or content of any data contained in this application; makes any representation of any kind, including, but not limited to, warranty of the accuracy or fitness for a particular use;…”</p>
<p>HoosierMom, I wonder about the accuracy and reliability of the info there and the sources of the data. In addition to the disclaimer, UCrime allows for internet users to enter data, which seems a bit uncontrolled. I would think that better sources are the data bases maintained by the state and municipal police as well as by the schools themselves under the Cleary Act. When comparing the UCrime data to government maintained data bases, UCrime seems at odds with official sources for some areas and schools.</p>
<p>ucrime.com is a private venture and I am not surprised that the owner would try to make some disclaimer to prevent being sued for publishing the information. That in itself wouldn’t invalidate the information, imo. </p>
<p>According to sources: “Information is gleaned from police departments, campus safety departments, and newspapers, among other sources and data is shared with SpotCrime.com, another of CEO Colin Drane’s ventures, which maps crimes in 130 metropolitan areas.”</p>
<p>“Among other sources” is subject to scrutiny. ucrime does have a “report a crime” link where if you are a registered member of ucrime you can report a crime and they do have a sign up to be a spotter for your campus. That does not allow direct messing up with the maps and input however. So without knowing the due diligence that ucrime then employs after getting the tip (just like newspapers do) to make sure it is accurate, there is no way of knowing the accuracy. </p>
<p>Based on some of the things I have read I am somewhat skeptical of campus police reports. It doesn’t behoove a university to publish excess reports if they can brush off or underreport. In any case, I still think ucrime is a good source and if there is a question of validity or an incident someone could then check the campus security site, newspapers, etc.</p>
<p>In Pennsylvania, the state police maintains a comprehensive data base which can actually be filtered for specific colleges as well as cities/neighborhoods. It’s a particularly good source when looking at colleges within various cities and particularly Philadelphia since while schools like Penn, Drexel, UArts and Temple have “campuses” to varying degrees, the schools are located in and about the streets of the city so that the Philadelphia police department usually gets involved in handling incidents and the incidents end up in the databases. In addition, the databases reflect incidents in the surrounding neighborhoods and streets which while not “technically” on campus none-the-less are relevant to student life and safety. To the extent that a school may have a tendency to downplay their reports for P.R. purposes, this would certainly tend to keep them honest since violating Cleary Act reporting requirements has financial consequences.</p>
<p>okayyy well thanks everyone for their opinions!!
since i last posted i’ve found out i’m in cap21 and then i also narrowed my choices down to nyu and boco
so out of those two… what do you think?
i like both cities, i like both schools, i’ve been to visit both more than once but i’m just stuck
where do you think the overall training and experience is better?</p>
<p>You can’t go wrong with NYU or BOCO. They both have a great reputation and offer excellent training. The main difference is that BOCO is a conservatory, and NYU is not. At NYU you will have non-theater classes, and at BOCO you will not. Which would you prefer? You should weigh this factor in making your choice.</p>
<p>My kid is at NYU-Tisch/CAP21 and I want to second what onstage says. (Always listen to onstage: she knows her stuff!)</p>
<p>The biggest difference between NYU/Tisch and BoCo is (besides the cities in which the programs are located) that at NYU, you have to take more (and more rigorous) liberal arts classes than you will at BoCo. I do believe that BoCo kids take some liberal arts, but am told (and there are some BoCo 'rents here, so I expect they can correct me if I am wrong) that they are pretty low level and not that challenging. I also don’t think that the BoCo kids have to take as many liberal arts classes. My D, a freshman at CAP, this year had one required freshmen writing the essay class (two semesters long) and one course (fall semester) in Intro to Theatre Production and one course (spring) Intro to Theatre Studies. Next fall, she will be taking another Theatre Studies course (probably something about musical theater or theater history) and one regular liberal arts class. The liberal arts classes are held two days a week and the studio classes are held from about 9 to 6 three days a week. My D believes she is getting the best of both worlds (challenging liberal arts and top training) at NYU but recognizes that there are kids who are not going to want to take those liberal arts classes. </p>
<p>As onstage said, you can’t go wrong. Both are great. </p>
<p>Oops, forgot something that might be worth mentioning: When my D was auditioning at BoCo, they mentioned up front that they have cuts at the sophomore level. NYU doesn’t have those, though kids do drop out and some probably fail out/stop going to classes.</p>
<p>NMR and Soozie- I figured this was a good thread to ask this on. I have heard from many people that if I were to go to NYU Tisch that it is very hard to connect with people and that you are treated like you are a student in a faculty. And that going to a smaller MT program with a small MT group is better b/c you form better bonds and a support group, etc. NYU really appeals to me and all I hear is wonderful things from both of you about your daughter’s successes. I would really appreciate any feedback you have on this subject. I am still waiting to hear about whether I was accepted or not but since it will happen on of after May 1, I will not have too much time to make a decision since I will be notifying another school that I will attend, etc, until I hear the deal from NYU. So I wanted to try and have my decision figured out a bit, but I do still plan on making a quick visit to Tisch if I am accepted to make sure it is for me.</p>
<p>I meant to say ‘Student in a factory’ not ‘student in a faculty’. sorry. meaning everyone comes out similar and in a cliche term ‘cookie cutters’</p>
<p>Bird, consider your sources. Obviously, those of us who have students at Tisch don’t agree with those negative comments. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask.</p>
<p>Bird, I don’t know where you are hearing that from. I have heard those comments from those who attend OTHER programs who ASSUME that because NYU/Tisch is a larger school, that they will not get individual attention. Nothing can be further from my D’s experiences these past four years at Tisch. All her classes have under 15 people in them, like at any other program. The fact that the program is larger simply means that she gets to work with a number of different professional faculty members over four years rather than a small handful. This actually has some advantages as she can learn different things from different people. </p>
<p>My D has had so much individualized attention that I hardly know where to begin. In classes alone, she is assigned songs or scenes and coached on them individually. She knows each teacher very well and they know her. The teachers write narrative evaluations at the end of each course in studio too that she receives. She also does “demos” for the entire studio faculty so they all know every student. She also has an advisor in her studio…her advisor in CAP21 was the head of CAP21 and her advisor in ETW is the head of ETW. She has forged relationships with many faculty members. One, Liz Swados, who is a Tony nominated playwright/director, hired my D to musically direct a premiere of her new work in NYC and accompany it and record the CD, and has hired her for two summers at a professional rate of pay. My D has been over her apartment many times. She gets to meet one one one every week a lot with her song composition teacher, creating her own pieces and getting feedback on them. She has a private voice teacher all four years and goes over to where she lives every week. She has been able to work with guests very closely such as this past fall, she was in a workshop production that the cast created under the direction of Moises Kaufman, Tony nominated playwright/director (his current show is on Broadway right now). I even met him and he knew exactly who my D was. She got to work on mainstage shows and got to know the director, composer and playwright very well and recorded a CD of their new musical and even traveled with them to Boston to do a concert version of it. Right now, my D has written a musical that she’ll stage next month and she was given a one to one advisor for it (ironically the faculty member who auditioned her to get into NYU!) whom she also has studied singing with in ETW. In the past week, her studio brought Sam Shepherd, well known playwright, in to meet one to one with any student who has created their own play or musical which is under production and Mr. Shepherd met with her and watched her show and discussed it with her. She very closely knows the faculty at both CAP21 and ETW. She got to work with other Tisch people, such as on the recent senior showcase, as well as professionals that were brought in for that. She was a Tisch Scholar and worked with the Dean who was in charge of that and traveled with him and other staff to both KY and to Brazil (for free I might add). The Dean of Tisch herself knows my daughter…I saw her in the audience at a show my D was in last summer and she asked her to perform at the freshmen welcome to Tisch this past August. So, she knows people from the Dean to the studio heads to the faculty to the guest artists and so on. She also likes that she is not with the same ten kids for four years. She is in a small grouping (her studio) within Tisch which is within NYU. The grouping is small but not so small so that she can forge friendship groups and choose her pals. She has friends in different studios besides her own studio. She also is in an a capella group and has that subset of friends. It doesn’t feel like a big school because the studio is not that big and Tisch is not that big. She does take liberal arts courses that mix beyond Tisch students but all of her friends are Tischies.</p>
<p>The issue of individual attention is one thing that has never ever come up in her experience. She gets PLENTY of it. I believe some of the remarks you may be hearing are from those outside of Tisch who make judgments or assumptions about it. Please try to talk to many current students if you can.</p>
<p>PS…I missed the good 'ole “cookie cutter” remark in your post. I can’t think of anything further from that as well. I have attended many shows and revues at CAP and at Tisch and in other studios such as Strasberg, Playwrights and ETW, as well as Main Stage. I recently saw the Tisch MT Industry Showcase. The array of types and talent is so wide!!! Some are strong singers, some are strong dancers, some are strong actors and some are all three. (actually one thing that stands out to me in every show is that the kids can ACT) All body types and looks were represented. Many racial and ethnic groups and types were in the showcase…Caucasian, Asian, African American, Latino, Hawaiin, and handicapped. One thing that even struck me about the showcase was that nobody in it was my own D’s type. She was not “competing” with them, in other words. All very different with different strengths and types. They also had different types of singing voices and each person played to their strengths and type, in fact.</p>
<p>Thank you jasmom and soozie- those comments that i heard were from people outside of Tisch of course. I do not know too many people at Tisch so I wanted to ask on here since you all have so much knowledge of the program. Soozie, everything you said basically nailed all of my qualms from what I have heard. And it sounds amazing especially from the experience your D is receiving. Definitely like a program I am still highly considering (granted I’m accepted). </p>
<p>One other question I have that my doctor was telling me (his D was in CAP21). He was saying that she felt that each teacher would choose a small group of kids within her group of 15ish that they would work with more than others. And that they would always work more with those that were the ‘most talented’ and ‘most competitive’ and that the other kids were sort of put on the back-burner and weren’t given as much attention or interest. I mean, I have seen this go on when I was in high school where our musical director would pick ‘favorites’ but I don’t know how much I think it would go on in college, especially at the level he was describing, that I tried to word best I could. I could understand if teachers would ‘write off’ certain students that they felt had poor attitudes or were too arrogrant to work with or had too much of an ego that they couldn’t deal with. But I don’t know if I could see a teacher trying to not be obvious about choosing a few while the rest sit and watch, if that makes sense?</p>
<p>^^^Bird,
First, I am not the one attending CAP21 and my D did and so I can’t recount first hand experiences of that sort. However, she never mentioned anything like that to me. In class, each student is given individualized songs to sing/perform and same with scenes/monologues and so forth. It is not like some are given it and the others watch! This I know for sure. As far as teachers having an interest in certain kids and not others, the only thing I can imagine is that each person forms their own perceptions about an experience. Maybe a particular student thinks the teacher prefers other kids over themselves. I mean it is school…this has been going on for years! </p>
<p>All I can say is that each student has equal opportunities IN CLASS and to audition for shows and so on. In any program, some students work harder than others. Some have more talent than others. If some have feelings about others, then the do. But the faculty treat all similarly and give them equal attention IN CLASS. </p>
<p>It would help if at all possible for you to arrange to speak with at least three Cappies either in person, by phone, email, IM, or on Facebook to glean several perspectives. In an earlier post, I was answering more factual information. Now, you bring up someone’s feelings and those feelings/perceptions will differ from kid to kid with whom you speak, I believe.</p>
<p>Thanks, soozie. I appreciate the feedback. I have one friend that is in CAP so I’m going to ask her about it. If you know of anyone else in the program that would like to send any info my way, I would really appreciate it. You could PM me their names and I’ll facebook message them, if possible.</p>
<p>Chiming in here as another Tisch-CAP parent whose freshmen D thinks she gets tons of personal attention and direction in her studio. As soozievt said and from what my D has told me, every single kid in every single class gets his or her chance to do his or her monologues, sing, act, do scenes, and so on. This entire year, I have never, ever heard my D say that she felt some kids are favored and some are not. </p>
<p>On the other hand, my D is the first one to say that NYU is NOT for everyone. Some kids are not comfortable going to school in such a big, busy city where there is definitely guidance from advisors and teachers and such, but no “hand holding.”</p>
<p>So Sooviet, Notmamarose, here is a question. My D is going to summer tisch cap 21 program as a junior and I am fairly sure that after she spends the summer there she is going to want to go to NYU. I am really torn here. There is NO possible way that we can afford for her to go without substantial scholarship money. I know that it is possible to get a scholarship but it doesn’t appear likely at NYU. ONe thing I was concerned about was the size of the school and her being lost in a crowd but your post is persuasive that they do a good job of keeping it personal in spite of the numbers. My question is…should we let/encourage her to audition for NYU when we know it is out of our price range unless she gets financial aid ?(OUr FAFSA will unlikely recommend need based aid) Are the training and the contacts worth incurring debt upwards of $80,000 over the 4 years to do it?</p>
<p>One reason I really want her to do the summer program there is that it gives her a chance to experience NYU if only for 4 weeks. </p>
<p>She is formulating her list of schools now and we have visited others schools in NY and a few other cities. I don’t know if I could handle her getting accepted (a longshot I realize)and then not being able to send her there. Just wondering your thoughts on this issue–you appear to have much wisdom and experience regarding these questions.</p>
<p>CalMTMom, I’m sure soozie and NMR will respond but let me offer my perspective as a parent whose FAFSA also would not qualify for need based grants or scholarships and whose daughter had Tisch on her initial list. There is no question that Tisch is a wonderful school offering top shelf training and that NYC is a dynamic and exciting place for a MT student to be, filled with all sorts of experiences and opportunities. It would be imprudent, however, to ignore the practical realities of cost if the cost factor is of meaningful consequence. </p>
<p>In your situation, $80,000 of loans can present a post graduation burden that is strangling. Even assuming it would all be subsidized Stafford Loans with interest not accruing until graduation (which it wouldn’t - there are annual caps on subsidized loans), the interest rate on Stafford loans is 6.8% resulting in payments of $920/ month over 10 years. Obviously, an overriding question you need to address is whether you or your daughter are going to be in a position to absorb that cost after she graduates keeping in mind that your daughter is seeking a career in which it is tough to have steady employment and earnings are not comparable to mainstream jobs/professions. Given the costs of essentials such as housing and health care, the 2 greatest concerns I have as a parent when thinking about my kids entering the work force, I would be very reluctant to incur the additional burden of 10’s of thousands of dollars in student loans if it could be avoided.</p>
<p>In this regard, as great a school as Tisch is and as desirable a locale as NYC may be, there are many other schools, with lower tuitions and costs of living, that also offer excellent top shelf training. There are other cities with lower costs of housing and food that have a very dynamic and active theatre scene offering wonderful opportunities and experiences to students. In addition, there are many different ways to develop contacts, whether it be through working pros who serve as faculty at many schools, participating in summer stock, enrolling in summer studio programs in NYC or other cities or developing the connections through auditioning, working or taking continuing training after college. Viewing any one school as a “must have” “magic bullet” is generally not a good thing to do; doing so with the result that crippling financial burdens are created is even more questionable.</p>
<p>I would imagine that it would be very difficult for your daughter to apply to Tisch, get accepted and then have it pulled out from under her due to finances. I think it is very important for you and your daughter to have an in depth and candid discussion about the economics as part of the process of deciding where to apply. Then whatever decision is made will at least be with a full assessment and understanding of the costs versus the benefits. Only you and your daughter can decide in the final analysis whether the benefits outweigh the costs and, perhaps more importantly, whether the costs can be reasonably handled regardless of the benefits.</p>
<p>I agree with Michael on the point that no school should be a “must have” as there are so many really fine programs out there and on top of that, given the very low admit rates, it is better to fall in love with many programs, not one. It is also not essential to be in NYC at all. </p>
<p>I also agree that I would be very hesitant to allow my kid to apply to any college and if she was accepted, to not then let her attend. I’d rather cut it off from the get go if I knew I could or would not send her if accepted. The only exception I could see in that would be if I had a dollar amount I would not go over and it would be dependent on the Fin. Aid package and if I told my kid from the very start that she could apply where she wanted but only attend if the FA package made the school’s cost of attendance come into that range. While we never did that, I could see someone choosing to do that. </p>
<p>We let our kids apply wherever they wanted and then came up with a way to finance it. While not everyone is willing to take out loans, we are. It would be different if the student was paying the $80,000 in loans herself… a different decision as to whether that would be doable for the student upon graduation. In our case, we are paying all the loans ourselves and our girls are not paying any of them. They will not be saddled with payments but we will be. </p>
<p>You ask if it is worth it. That is a very very individual decision. We feel that their educations are worth it for the experiences they have had at their schools. We will pay it out over a number of years to make it doable. I don’t think NYU is more worth it than another school and I would pay the same amount no matter what school my kids had chosen. Has NYU been worth every cent and loan we have had to take? Yes, it has. To someone else, I can’t say. But the experiences our kids have had at their respective colleges have been wonderful and very worth it to them and to us. And same with my other D’s graduate school that we are also financing. But each family’s values and situation are different and everyone has to do what is right for them.</p>
<p>CalMT, in a happy situation a combination of merit scholarship money, financial aid and a small loan would enable your daughter to attend her “dream school.” Perhaps you could, as soozie suggested, state a dollar amount of contribution that you are willing to make and the gap must either be bridged by merit scholarships or loans that your daughter takes out herself.</p>
<p>In the end we are all buying a product as much as an experience. It’s difficult to compare and decide amongst schools because there are so many feelings about them. But the amount of tolerance for debt should be part of the decision and imo you should at least quantify that before your daughter applies so she knows where she’ll stand.</p>
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