I seek wise advice

Parent Cafe
21

My sincerest apologies to anyone who thinks that this writing style is incomprehensible. I myself reflect on it as a personal rant. But, I felt I needed to explain all the situation encountered by me in this whole process. Yes, I could have built it gradually, but I have only a day’s time left, hence this form of written expression. I do not feel offended at all.

And pardon me for not taking your hollow stance, as I know exactly where I stood and stand in the competition for the Ivy League schools. It is rather significantly judgmental and short-sighted of someone to base their opinion on one piece of a perplexing situation explained through words. When Classic Rocker Dad, said it, I took it as positive criticism but, not sure how the reiteration of something, put forward with more sore a feeling, can be taken as?

Yet, I will keep looking for assistance, after I simplify it for more coherence.

22

If it were not for the writing and financial issues, I would say go to Princeton. They have the best physics program. But you may be more successful at King’s college. As I understand, English schools are very focused. I am thinking you would not be required to take as many writing-based courses in such a school, and with only 3 years to pay for the total cost is substantially less. You should look into this. For lower cost I would choose an Indian University. I don’t see much point in attending Hofstra.

23

I meant no disrespect, but do you have a means to pay for the Ivy league. Yes or No.

If YES, there is no choice. If not, there is still no choice, in my humble opinion. Hofstra is most unlikely to be a stop on the road to you ending up as a scientist.

24

But, King’s is not offering me no amount in aid. Besides, with an in-depth research of the opportunities of internships, research, more communication with the professors, and overall benefits and opportunities, the US schools are much more preferable.

And Hofstra is still giving me a lot of advantages, not that they are, or I consider them to be privileges, or rigor provided first-hand or something like that.

But, honestly speaking I would like to spend as less funds as possible for undergraduate, because, at the end of the road, I have to consider my graduate school also. The costs are even higher.

In India, the research avenues cannot be expanded to an immense degree, in the undergraduate years particularly. Neither do I not favor the studying atmosphere, particularly those inclined towards an Astro. specialization, or even in-depth Physics for that matter, or even in work experience and pursuing other activities alongside, nor the life outside campuses in the cities housing the 'best ’ universities in the country.

25

Over the course, of 4 years I will have managed to save about 40-50 lakh of Indian Rupees, which is a good saving for any excellent Graduate Schools. The financial conditions are not expandable beyond a certain limit in my case. My parents have already undertaken loans, and with another one, it is likely, statistically, that we can end up in debt. They may think that only caring about each years’ financing as it knocks on the door is feasible, as, and I quote: ’ God has paved a way in one direction, he will do it this direction as well, I have faith in him." but it reckless and impractical.

And the financial atrocities are not just a fact, but a truth.

So, I really do find Ronald Nelson’s story compelling in some way.

26

Graduate programs in the sciences are funded: no tuition, and the school pays you a stipend large enough to live on.

That aside, I don’t understand this thread. If you have the money for Princeton or Yale, that’s where you should go. Yes, it’s more expensive then Hofstra, but a world apart in opportunities and prestige. If you think these Ivies are just too expensive, go to Kings College. Bottom line: with this selection of schools, you can’t have an inexpensive experience at a world-class university. It’s one (Hofstra) or the other( P,Y,KC) but not both.

27

OP, you really need to do your homework.

Graduate students in the sciences do not pay tuition–they receive a fellowship which covers living expenses and supports a modest lifestyle. The problem is not paying for graduate school but the fact that employment prospects after you get the PhD are bleak.

The real cost is the lost opportunity cost of salary much higher than the graduate stipend you could have been making during those years, and the lost years of professional advancement you could have had in another field.

28

I see no one has addressed OP’s statement that he or she will not return to India for a career. Perhaps someone can guide OP about the likelihood of being permanently employed in the US or the UK as a foreign national. If a career in India is the only feasible alternative, I would think that the Ivy name would be a big advantage.

It’s a shame OP didn’t apply to more selective non-Ivies than Hofstra, where decent financial aid may have been offered. The gap between Hofstra and the other schools to which OP was admitted is huge.

29

That is what I am saying, the first/ first and a half year will be manageable but henceforth, will pose as a constraint.
King’s almost equals the cost of Ivies(in fact only higher, no aid).

I know it cannot be both, that is why I am having a hard time deciding.

30

Competition for US academic jobs in a field like Astronomy where the corporate job opportunities are limited will be brutal. I would not make a life plan around becoming a US college professor.

31

If you can afford Princeton, Yale, or Duke, pick one of those. You really can’t go wrong. But if I were you, I’d choose the one with the fewest humanities distribution requirements. Your GPA will suffer otherwise.

32

When you say “first/ first and a half year will be manageable but henceforth, will pose as a constraint,” are you referring to Kings College or P/Y?

33

Why does Princeton think that your family can afford it - They meet full need even for internationals. Have you had a discussion with Princeton’s financial aid office?

34

If you don’t get any financial aid at these two Ivies, then I would think your family can afford them. Their financial aid policies are very generous, and families with sizeable incomes get aid. Financial aid at Yale and most likely Princeton are the same for internationals as for citizens. At Yale your family would pay 20% at an income of $200k. If income is lower, the percentage is lower. No loans as part of the package. Is this really difficult for your family?

Stop worrying about grad school. You will receive funding for that most likely. Plus stipend.

Is there some other reason you want to go to Hofstra? Are you seeking a lower stress environment perhaps? Because I just don’t otherwise understand.

I am not a rabid fan of Ivies by any means, but you didn’t do your applications with a lot of knowledge about other colleges, the Colleges that Change Lives, for instance, and the “Little Ivies” like Williams, Amherst, Tufts, others. You end up with a bunch of expensive prestigious schools and then threw in Hofstra in April

Have you looked at the websites of all your schools carefully? For instance, Yale has more gen ed requirements and more classes per semester, so perhaps Princeton is a better choice if you decide to do an “Ivy.” Check out your areas of interest and research opportunities. Have you visited at all?
.

For those who don’t know, here is the Ronald Nelson story http://www.businessinsider.com/ronald-nelson-turned-down-every-ivy-league-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5 Your story differs from his in several respects. For one thing, he had a free ride in the U. of Alabama. And as I remember I posted on his thread that maybe he was afraid of Harvard or whateve, and more comfortable at Bamar. Who knows.

With the choices before you, I think you should go for the top schools. The difference between 50% at Hofstra ($30k?) and 80% at Princeton or Yale ($50k) is significant, I agree, but the higher price is most likely worth it honestly.

The one argument against is if you want to go to medical school and need a higher GPA. I don’t agree with this thinking but others raise this point a lot.

Stop thinking too far ahead in terms of grad school and so on and pick the place you would most like to be for the next 4 years.

If you had researched Hofstra and applied to it in the fall as a top choice, that would be different. But it seems you were upset by the cost of the schools you got into and then found Hofstra because it has rolling admissions and was still taking people in April.

You could wait a year and come on this forum BEFORE you apply. Right now I think you should probably go to Princeton, or Yale if you prefer. I don’t know which is best for your planned area of study.

35

I think you should take ClassicRockerDad’s advice about contacting the finaid office at Princeton first. If that works your problem is solved!

If that doesn’t work, you need to start thinking about your long term prospects and whether you will be able to do exactly what you want to do.

You obviously have a special field of physics you want to go into, but which apparently has very poor job prospects. And you/your parents can’t afford the colleges you want to attend that would advance you in this field. Might there be other areas of physics study that could lead to a fulfilling and high paying job for you? This way you could go to one of your Ivies and then pay your parents back later if God or good fortune do not smile on them.

Is there anything you could do for a gap year (maybe a job to add to your savings)? You could then apply to a good number of financial safety schools that aren’t Ivies but still have a high enough prestige to appeal to your parents as well as giving you the education you desire.

CC should have a giant banner at the top of the page that says “CHOOSE SEVERAL FINANCIAL SAFETIES!” and keep the banner up until the user has read several threads like this one!

36

The only thing I did not know about are the finance related issues. Rest, the universities’ rankings, their faculty, programs and campus; were.

And no, a so called ‘appeal’ or a discussion, if you must, did not lead to any positive results from P,Y,D.

I wish I would have applied to more non- Ivies, excluding Stan, JHU and Duke. But, I was satiated with my application and some how convinced that I was going to get through in at least one of them. When I did, I realized how complicated this all actually is.

Still, do you think if Hofstra, which is giving me a binding decision today, offers me scholarship more generously to about 90%, I should go for it.

Plus, is there any truth in the fact that not accepting admission in an Ivy or MIT etc, leads the admiss. officers to increase your aid later, trying to invite you back. Is it only when they have to fill their seats? This happened with a family friend accepted to MIT, but later she chose to go to Karlsru, Germany.

37

Don’t go into debt assuming you’ll be able to stay in the US after you graduate. I think you have a year to get experience, then you’re expected to return home.

If your parents can’t pay for all 4 years at a college, don’t enroll there. You can’t reasonably expect colleges to give you additional aid after the first year. Costs generally go up, not down. Are there any colleges on your list that your parents can afford (without debt) for all 4 years? If not, I’d suggest looking for schools closer to home.

38

"Plus, is there any truth in the fact that not accepting admission in an Ivy or MIT etc, leads the admiss. officers to increase your aid later, trying to invite you back. Is it only when they have to fill their seats? "

They have no trouble filling their seats. There are few soooooo exceptional in their applicant pool that they need to chase them down and throw money at them. For the few who turn them down, they have no need to “try to invite them back”.

39

If you got NO aid for PY or D, then your family income is likely well over $300,000 a year. Are you saying your oarents can’t afford to pay for you to go to college here? Then go to college in your country.

What does THIS mean? There is NOTHING binding about your Hofstra offer…you can take it…or leave it…your choice.

40

I think you want us to tell you to go to Hofstra.

So go to Hofstra.

It is a perfectly fine average caliber university in the US with good name recognition on the East Coast; virtually no recognition in the other parts of the country, and I daresay zero name recognition overseas. It is affordable to your family and you are clearly hankering for a degree from a US institution.

So go to Hofstra.

Now don’t you feel better?