I think my dad is being unreasonable. What do you think?

<p>My father is a doctor, and since I was young he and the rest of my family have been pushing me towards that career as well. For a long time I just went with it, only seeing the "helping people" and prestige that came with the job, and not seeing many other aspects of the profession. </p>

<p>With this upcoming year being my senior year in high school, I have been looking a lot into the type of colleges, majors, and potential careers I think I would be interested in. Needless to say, being pre-med and becoming a doctor is not ultimately what I want. I do not think that his career is the right choice for me (AT ALL), though I still would like to be in the medical field. I have looked at all other comparable options (i.e. dentistry, optometry, pharmacy), and these don't work for me either. I happened upon physical therapy, and finally I think I have a match. I just love everything I learn about the profession. </p>

<p>Now, I know that this does not mean all that much, given that I have so many years left of exploring my interests before applying to a graduate school of some kind, but my father's reaction to this was surprising. It began when he asked me (rather, was still making sure)that I was going to be pre-med. I told him that I didn't think being a doctor was for me, told him exactly why, and I talked to him about perhaps being pre-PT. He claimed that a $60,000 salary was not enough to live on, and certainly not enough to be married and raise a family with. I am a very frugal person by nature, and I don't understand how 60K will not be enough for only me to live on. And even if I get married, I expect my wife to have a career of some kind... so the ~60K will certainly not be the be-all, end-all of our family.</p>

<p>Anyways... I'm just extremely bothered by this. Parents, can you PLEASE help me get into his head. I just don't know where to begin in reasoning with him. And even if I do not end up becoming a physical therapist, there is a 99% chance that I will <em>not</em> be setting myself up in college for such a high salary. I fear that because he is the one who will be paying for the bulk of my college education, he will hold it over my head in some way so that I will do what he wants, as far as majors and pre-professional programs go at least. Honestly, sometimes I don't think I would put it past him. </p>

<p>Thoughts/Comments/Advice very much appreciated!</p>

<p>If you major in PT as an undergrad, you will be taking much the same courses as for premed. THEN when it’s time for grad school, you will go for PT and your parents won’t have much to say about it…unless, of course, you are asking them to pay.</p>

<p>I say…just take the courses for PT…there is NO SUCH MAJOR as premed…and the courses are very much the same for undergrads going into PT as applying to med school.</p>

<p>I will most likely not major in PT as an undergrad, nor was he expecting me to to major in pre-med. I would just take the PT prerequisites and major in Biology or something else that interests me. And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that while they took some of the same classes, there were quite a bit fewer prereqs for pre-PT than there were for pre-med. </p>

<p>Lol, are you suggesting that I simply trick the ol’ man?</p>

<p>My husband and I are doctors, and while we are NOT pushing our kids to be doctors, we DO want them to understand how their lives will be different from what they have been accustomed to. Could be jealousy on my part, but if they decide to “go with their heart”, I would expect them to accept whatever limits that might bring, and not to come back home, or need long periods of financial support. Maybe that’s what your dad is trying to say. I don’t think this will be a problem for my daughter, as she is quite “frugal” too. </p>

<p>BTW, I think my son should consider PT too. Due to various sports injuries, we have seen a lot of PT! OTOH, frugality is SO not his thing!</p>

<p>Ultimately it’s your life. You have to learn not to look for you parent’s approval for your decisions. They will either come around to your way of thinking or they won’t.</p>

<p>No one wins when a kid lets their parents make big decisions for them. The kid resents it and the parents can’t figure out why their kid is so mad at them.</p>

<p>A good friend of ours has an extremely lucrative PT practice in NYC and, let me tell you, he makes a whole lot more than 60 grand a year.</p>

<p>Shrinkrap- I haven’t lived with my father since he decided to first pursue medical school, so I was not raised in the type of affluent lifestyle he is able to maintain. I was raised under the salary of a social worker and a part time nurse and, in fact, prefer the more humble existence. But, like your son, I’m really able to relate to the PT. I’ve seen a lot of sports injuries myself :)</p>

<p>Pea- I don’t think I’m necessarily looking for his approval (or at least I don’t like to think so), but I’m just afraid that if he doesn’t come around to the way I want my education to be, he might not deem it worth “funding”.
Ultimately I need help in simply getting him to come around.</p>

<p>4gsmom- That would really be the icing on top of the cake :)</p>

<p>Most of you on this forum are parents, right? Can ya help a lil high schooler out here?</p>

<p>Why now? Both you and your father are in agreement about need to be a pre-med, Physical Therapy is just a specialty. My D. (pre-med) just shadowed in Physical Therapy and thinking about it also, but she is going to apply to Med. School in a year. And $60,000 is plenty to live comfortably, every family anymore has 2 people working anyway, you might be having $260k income after all, who is to tell?</p>

<p>Pre-med and pre-PT are different things. I would not plan on applying to medical school or taking the MCATs, but rather PT school and taking the GRE. It’s something you go to graduate school for to get either your Masters or PhD. Being pre-med, specifically, would cause me to take more classes than are necessary for admittance into a PT program. I think he might just be uncomfortable with me not ending up in med school, period. </p>

<p>And as far as being able to live comfortably on that salary goes, thank you for the reassurance :slight_smile:
I had a moment of doubt when he said I would not be able to live off of it, considering I have never truly lived in the real world of loans, bills, etc., so thank ya!</p>

<p>I agree. It sounds like Dad is using $60K as a low-ball exaggeration to make his point. I know part-time PTs (haha PT PTs) making that much. </p>

<p>I think there’s middle ground here. Tell your dad that you haven’t ruled out traditional medicine, but at the age of 17 you’re intrigued by PT. Lots could change over the next 3/4/5 years and you’ll make use of your college’s pre-health advising services to sort it all out.</p>

<p>My father grew up in a poor family in a working-class area in the South. He desperately longed to get out of there and see the world. He was the youngest sibling, the only boy, and the first member of his family to go to college (although some of his sisters married professional men) and went to a state university by joining the Naval ROTC. After he finished college he served his time in the Navy. Then he went and lived near his parents, doing work he hated, while his father died. At that point he went after his dream job and got it. His employer paid for him to get an MA from Georgetown and to spend some time at the Kennedy School. He traveled.</p>

<p>I grew up in a middle-class family but with a father whose profession came with perqs, and I longed to live somewhere stable. It was always assumed that I would go to college; however, I decided to go to the state university my father had gone to, which horrified every single adult I knew. I deliberately sabotaged all my other applications (although there was no guarantee I would have gotten in if I had tried). I picked a major that everyone thought was ridiculous. I have never at any point made anywhere close to the kind of money my father did, and I have frequently made minimum wage. I do not travel.</p>

<p>The things my father took for granted and did not appreciate, I desperately wanted. The things he desperately wanted, I took for granted and did not appreciate. I don’t have children, but if I did, I imagine they would probably desperately want the things I took for granted, and take for granted the things I desperately wanted.</p>

<p>It sounds to me as if your father really wants you to have the freedom that comes with making a lot of money. Right now, that concern makes a lot of sense. He may also appreciate other aspects of his job, such as having the authority to dictate to other people what they ought to do instead of being dictated to. The times I have seen a physical therapist, it was at a doctor’s request, and the doctor pretty much told the PT what to do.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that he’s right or that you ought to do what he wants. I would have been pretty miserable if I had done what my parents wanted me to do. But I can see why my father was horrified by a lot of my choices.</p>

<p>Can you keep your options open, and choose a course of study that would allow you to apply to medical school if you change your mind, without making any sacrifices that you don’t want to make? One of the ways I kept my parents off my back was to choose a course of study that would have allowed me to apply to law school if I wanted to. (I did not want to. But I liked the courses I took.)</p>

<p>Can you sit down and really think about finances, so that you understand the ramifications of a $60.000 salary? (That is more than I have ever made in a single year, and I am a lot older than you. So I think it’s a perfectly fine salary.) What if the woman you fall in love with really wants to stay home and raise children? What if you decide you want to travel? What if you decide you want to pay the majority of your future children’s college educations? What about what finances mean to your father? What sorts of things does he enjoy about his life that he would not be able to enjoy if he were making $60,000 a year?</p>

<p>My mother grew up rich. She went to schools I’ve heard of on TV and from friends, even though I’ve never even lived in the city where she grew up. She went to a prestigious women’s collge. She married my father and proceeded to stay home and raise us (I was conceived on the night of their wedding, so they had children pretty quickly). She did not always like the houses he could afford to have us live in. She did not always like the neighborhoods in which those houses were. She held jobs every so often during our childhoods, but they were usually part-time jobs, and they were always to do with children: for instance, when I was in high school she was a nursery school teacher. She expected her sons to make a lot of money and her daughters to stay home and raise children. Therefore she wanted her sons to choose courses of study that would lead to large salaries, and she wanted her daughters to not appear intelligent enough to scare off boys.</p>

<p>Does your father have any clue how people who make $60,000 a year live? Does he think the neighborhoods in which such people live are dangerous? Does he want your children to have the advantages that he thought were important to provide for you and that your grandparents thought were important to provide for your father? Does he not think physical therapy is a particularly respectable job? Does he want you not only to be a doctor, but to be in a specialty that is highly respected?</p>

<p>Would it help for you to ask your guidance counselor to see whether she can find a physical therapist or two to meet your father and explain what his life is like? Could you figure out what kinds of apartments or houses you could live in on $60,000 – if you were single, if you were married to someone who didn’t make a lot of money, if you were a parents with a stay-at-home wife, if you were a parent paying for daycare for multiple children, etc.?</p>

<p>I wish that I had sat down with my father and talked, at length, about the reasons he wanted me to do certain things. (He died while I was still pretty young, so that’s not something I can do now.) I still wouldn’t have made the choices he wanted me to make, but I suspect I could have learned some things that I had to learn the hard way; and at the very least I could have understood some of his concerns. (And believe me, he had concerns about the things I liked to do in school!) Is that something you could do?</p>

<p>I suspect that being a doctor is not really the issue. Instead, the issue is that he wants you to have something that he thinks doctors are likely to have, and physical therapists are not likely to have. But if you could sit down and not try to defend your choices, but really try to understand his side of things – what he wants for you, why he wants it – you might learn a lot. And then later, you could sit down on a separate occasion and talk about the things you want for yourself and why med school is not a good way for you to get those things. He has spent your whole life trying to do things for your own good. He may have misjudged what sorts of things would help you. He may have a completely skewed idea of your own good. But the odds are that he means well and that he wants you to be happy, even if his idea of what would make you happy is nothing like your idea of what would make you happy. And if you were able to really understand his position, you might find that you had some common ground, and you might be able to make some decisions that would satisfy you both – and at the very least, you would be able to consider his side of things before you decide that you disagree and want something else for yourself.</p>

<p>Of course, there is also the possibility that he believes he knows better because he has been alive longer. It may not be possible for you to find common ground. Sometimes people are perverse. I don’t know the man; maybe he is completely unreasonable. But it might be worth a try.</p>

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<p>so what? You’d have the prerequisite courses for EITHER premed or PT…so what if you have more than PT requires. THAT might actually help you when it comes time to apply for grad school.</p>

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<p>Yes, I’m sure they’ll absolutely be living on cloud 9 throughout their 20s if they decide to pursue a career as a doctor.</p>

<p>Oh please…nontraditional…you make it sound like living on $60,000 a year is simply not possible with any sorts of discretionary spending. I have to tell you…a lot depends on where you live and what decisions you DO make about how you spend your money. No…you probably aren’t going to live in a Manhattan coop with a stay at home parent, and you probably aren’t going to have a second home…or a new car every three years. I know PLENTY of folks who live comfortably on LESS than $60K a year and they DO travel and they DO live nicely. The don’t live in huge houses, and they are careful about their spending but they are not living like paupers.</p>

<p>nontraditional- That was amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I honestly had no idea how to begin meeting him half-way in this argument, but your post makes a heck of a lot of sense. Yes, like your father, he was raised in a very poor environment. I will be sure to talk to him about all that you have mentioned. Again, thank you.</p>

<p>thumper1- I would not want to take up class space that I could use for other, more interesting (to me) things. I definitely want to take more than the required pre-reqs, but not as many extra as I would need for pre-med. I have other interests beyond the sciences and maths.</p>

<p>Living well and comfortably is more about living within your means than it is about sheer salary size. I know people with 6-figure incomes who are in serious financial trouble, and people who make $45K who are doing just fine. </p>

<p>Does your father realize that the median household income in the U.S. is about $50K?</p>

<p>Obviously prereqs for programs will vary depending on the school, but here are two lists I easily found online. Notice how similar they are…</p>

<p>Prerequisites for med school:Minimum course requirements for most U.S. medical schools include one year each of biology, general (inorganic) chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, and related lab work for each science course. </p>

<p>Prerequisites for P.T. :Anatomy and Physiology (minimum one course); chemistry (minimum one course); physics (two courses); statistics (one course); psychology; general biology (minimum one course), and an undergraduate degree. </p>

<p>Pretty much the same…</p>

<p>To me it would be very difficult to say Doctor or Physical therapist before you even get to college. As you go through the prerequisite classes, a much clearer picture will emerge. If you were to lay out a 4 year plan for Pre-Med and a 4 year plan for PT, I would guess that for the freshman and sophomore years very little would differ. </p>

<p>Why not tell your dad that you will keep an open mind and take the classes leading to both post graduate programs for the first two years (and show him your class plan). You will also get some real experience in the medical field via part time jobs and internships. </p>

<p>Under this plan, you will be making a much more informed decision when the time comes to concentrate in one or the other.</p>

<p>“Shrinkrap- I haven’t lived with my father since he decided to first pursue medical school, so I was not raised in the type of affluent lifestyle he is able to maintain.”</p>

<p>That’s interesting. Mabye he feels a strong need to rationalize HIS decision. Maybe you could reassure him that you think he made a good choice ( whether you beleive it or not…)</p>

<p>Quote:
how their lives will be different from what they have been accustomed to.</p>

<p>"Yes, I’m sure they’ll absolutely be living on cloud 9 throughout their 20s if they decide to pursue a career as a doctor. "</p>

<p>Haha…I’m not sure how to take that…</p>

<p>FWIW, I remember my 20’s quite fondly, but maybe it’s just denial.</p>

<p>I’m am NOT encouraging them to go to medical school. I don’t think I would do it now, if I had it to do it over. Who knows? PT’s and MD’s may even be making the same salary in the years to come.</p>

<p>I am only saying they need to realize they have had some choices their kids won’t have. Like living in California.</p>