I think this is the end...please help

<p>Student Financial Services at UPenn took away all my aid (around $23) and said I have to pay everything. YAYYYYYYYYY!!!!!...no</p>

<p>I was accepted ED and got the first financial aid statement (based on 2004 taxes) saying Penn would pay for half, so we were ecstatic. However, based on my 2005 tax returns they said my family's income increased dramatically and took away everything (Penn grant, some scholarship, and some loan). </p>

<p>My mom called our CPA and he said that our income increased because we sold two some property we've been saving for investment (that we've had for 10 years) in the same year, but he said that doesn't mean our work income increased. The reason we sold the property was to pay for my oldest brother's debt from college loans and, irronically, to also pay for my future UPenn bills. We currently don't have any money from the sale of that property because my brother's debt was so high. </p>

<p>So...we called the lady who evaluated my fin aid and she said to file a re-evaluation form and so we currently are. </p>

<p>But it's really annoying and worrisome. I realy doubt I'll be able to go to UPenn next year. </p>

<p>So, you've heard it, an ED student that possibly won't attend the school. </p>

<p>Does anyone have any advice or experience in this matter? Any encouragement would be really helpful...</p>

<p>I don't have any advice or experience, other than not to give up hope just yet. I am sure if there is anyway that they can look at your situation differently, they will, now that you have filed for the re-evaluation. They must want you or you wouldn't have been admitted ED!</p>

<p>Even if there is nothing they can do for the upcoming school year, you will probably would have the option to defer your admission and take a gap year (after which your parents' income would be more normal-looking, since they likely won't be selling any more properties in the near future). </p>

<p>I know a gap year isn't what you wanted, but it could be a tremendous opportunity for you to explore some interest you never had time for. I will keep my fingers crossed that it won't come to that, though.</p>

<p>GAP YEAR??? o.O </p>

<p><em>Sigh</em>...thanks for your support though. I guess if it comes to that...</p>

<p>There's one thing we dont understand though: We HAD the money from the sale, but we don't have it ANYMORE, and the financial people are saying that it doesn't matter because it happened in 2005, and its now 2006.</p>

<p>I'm so sorry :( I think you had a lousy accountant who didn't understand the college financial aid system. Do you withdraw all your applications???</p>

<p>YESSSSSSS, even my state school which accepts 95% of applicants! AHHHHHH im really stressing out...</p>

<p>Should I ask to speak to a different person, because the lady on the phone seemed doubtful and that really made me sad. </p>

<p>And accepted students really need to constantly check their financial status online as often as possible because I reandomly checked that horrible statement and it suposedly had been reviewed a week before. They sent no immediate notification that my fin aid had been drastically changed.</p>

<p>Laffy, I'm a big proponent of student's taking the initiative in communicating with schools, EXCEPT for issues involving $$ (if the parents are paying). I think you need to urge your parents to contact Penn and try to hash out what can and can't be done. The "lady on the phone" might not have quite the same tone with a parent who's just found out they are expected to come up with an additional $23K.</p>

<p>Heh, actually my mom DID talk to her. I was on the other line listening. I got to talk to the lady too but I noticed she was pessimistic to my mom also. </p>

<p>Basically she had no other advice or comments other than to fill out a re-evaluation which could take up to 4 weeks to have them look at.</p>

<p>Geez, I hope fin aid officers don't randomly look up posts on CC.</p>

<p>It seems this matter should be jumped on and stayed on by both the parents and the student. The paperwork should be sent as soon as possible, and the parents should be on the phone with whoever is in charge of making the final decision. It is unfortunate that the property sale occurred during the period that controlled the financial aid decision, but if it was used to offset debt that was not considered, this needs to be brought up. The person making the decision should also know that this was an ED admission where the student relied on the aid promised to her detriment as she didn't apply elsewhere and can no longer do so. There isn't time to waste dealing with anyone other than someone who has the power to make a decision and to make it quickly.</p>

<p>i agree, thank you so much</p>

<p>"The person making the decision should also know that this was an ED admission where the student relied on the aid promised to her detriment as she didn't apply elsewhere and can no longer do so."</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this is irrelevant. The student could no longer apply elsewhere because of the ED acceptance, regardless of aid offered then.</p>

<p>IF the OP applied ED knowing financial aid would be an issue, then this is the risk.....Getting in ED means, unless Penn had released you then and there(because the initial aid was not enough) to apply elsewhere (and then only to limited and much cheaper schools)-- you have to take what you get for financial aid when you apply ED. This is a very tough outcome, hopefully you can find someone who will listen to the story with a sympathetic ear...and a deep pocket. Get all the paperwork together, get a notarized statement from the accountant of where the windfall went, think about piecing together loans from elsewhere for next year...try to find schools still accepting applications that might have financial aid available....</p>

<p>"Unfortunately, this is irrelevant. The student could no longer apply elsewhere because of the ED acceptance, regardless of aid offered then."</p>

<p>Actually failure to be able to afford to attend a school due to insufficient financial aid IS an out from ED. In this case the aid offered at the time of the ED acceptance appeared sufficient so the student didn't need to raise the issue of being released from her committment. </p>

<p>The question now is will Penn be flexible enough to provide an aid package that will enable this student who was sufficiently attractive to them to accept ED to attend under the financial circumstances that exist at this point in time.</p>

<p>I think it is not an easy 'out' nor is it a desirable one. The student compromises their flexibility completely. The school they are turning down that has just accepted them likely imposes restrictions on where they can apply....i.e. "Go ahead and apply to your state school since it will be cheaper, don't apply to Columbia looking for better money." </p>

<p>It is a dis-service to let students think this is easy to do or pro-forma in any way. Furthermore, if a University feels that a given HS is not giving appropriate counsel to their ED applicants(including about financial aid issues), there can be repercussions for future applicants from that HS. This happened at our school a few years ago.</p>

<p>I thought that I had heard every permutation of the college application story from scanning CC for the last couple of years, but this one is a new one.</p>

<p>What I don't understand--don't most financial aid formulas take into account investment property that a person holds? So wouldn't a person also get dinged for owning investment property without having sold the property? What I mean to say is that financial aid takes into account more than income, doesn't it?</p>

<p>When the property is sold, the property is converted from an asset owned to income received (the profit).</p>

<p>I have done some Googling on this, which does not exactly yield definitive answers, but there seems to be a common procedure or recommendation that where parents have a large one-time capital gain, they should write a special circumstance letter or seek review-- so apparently some colleges will take that fact under consideration in some circumstances.</p>

<p>I realize that this whole situation sucks & I don't feel that that the student should have been expected to anticipate this situation.... but I am at a loss to figure out what her parents were thinking(!). If they are paying off loans taken for her older brother's college debt, then they must have been familiar with the financial aid process. The CSS/Profile would have asked them to report their estimated 2005 income, and they knew they would have to provide that information on the FAFSA. </p>

<p>It seems to me that the parents made some really bad choices - and the kid is now stuck with the consequence. I would agree with others that the only feasible solution I can see would be to defer enrollment and take a gap year, assuming 2006 income will be restored to the 2004 levels. But maybe if that is presented as the plan, Penn will see the logic of coming up with a compromise of some sort now.</p>

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<p>When the income property was owned and counted as an asset, then OP got 1/2 FA. When the property was sold, the funds used up and the profit counted as income, then there was no FA. Don't people with assets (like investment property and stocks) get little FA? We didn't go the FA route, so I never had to wade through the process. . .sounds pretty tricky.</p>

<p>I remember reading that parents need to be really careful when selling assets for Junior's college. You need to sell before January of the junior year, so that the sale doesn't skew your tax return that will be used for FA purposes.</p>

<p>But the whole ED process really made for a disaster here that an RD app would have avoided. With an RD app, there would have been no 2004 tax return and the answer from the FA office would have been $0 aid from the get go. OP would have had to decline Penn's offer (perhaps), but would have other college acceptances to choose from--OP wouldn't have been happy, but would have a college to go to. Now, all you have is a college you can't afford.</p>

<p>Another reason to trash the whole ED situation.</p>

<p>


Income is assessed at a higher rate than assets; if I have an asset worth $100K, it will raise my EFC by at most $5600; if I have extra income of $100K, it can raise my EFC by as much as $47K.

[quote]
In calculating financial aid, the formula stipulates that the following percentages of income and assets be used for college expenses in any single year:</p>

<pre><code>* 35 percent of a student's assets
* 50 percent of a student's income
* 2.6 to 5.6 percent of a parent's assets
* 22 to 47 percent of a parent's income

[/quote]
Source: http://www.lunch-money.com/Guides/Educational-Savings/resSavingsGuide3.aspx
</code></pre>

<p>I agree with your point about ED, but what bugs me is that the parents had to know what was coming. So this really isn't a case of a problem with the ED process itself, but of some very questionable planning on the part of the family.</p>

<p>The whole "sold the asset to pay for school and now the school wants more money" is one of the weird twists financial aid can take. Your CPA clearly missed the boat (if he participated in the sale decision). Borrowing against the property, doing some kind of installment sale, etc. could have reduced the blow.</p>

<p>Next year, of course, things should get better without the income surge.</p>

<p>In the meantime, I would recommend you appeal your award, and point out that the one-time sale of property is a non-recurring event and that paying for education expenses was why the property was liquidated. Good luck!</p>

<p>Thanks so much everyone. Im writing a letter now composed of some of your suggestions.</p>

<p>lucky you! your family had assets to sell. sure,they didn't like how they had to spend it for your brother's education debt...but you still had the "profits" coming in as cash.</p>

<p>i am not sure that anyone can truly measure all the components of net worth, income, taxes, property values, etc. to determine what financial aid packages are fair. </p>

<p>i agree with you that it probably doesn't seem right, but how it is, is how it is.</p>

<p>my family's agi is greatly impacted by the alternative minimum tax...and therefore even though actually cash coming in is considerably less, well, that's how it is.</p>