I don’t see how a desire for a more lax dress code and casual shoes and a petition equals “creative and forward-thinking” talent. I’ve worked with many bright people with drive and creativity and no one had problems with following a dress code.
I have a very strong feeling these interns knew exactly what the dress code was when they decided to accept the internship. I have zero sympathy. It’s such a minor issue.
An intern is like a guest in someone’s home. You put up and you shut up…house rules.
I have an intern sitting near me, just arrived yesterday. He is cocky as all get out. This is going to be a long 11 weeks. At least he is not in my project, just near my workspace. Earbuds will be a lifesaver… (We can wear jeans, so no possibility of losing him to that mistake… darn it)
see #6. I have little more to add – except that I feel sorry for those of you who think that this is an appropriate way to treat people. Can you step away from the fact that the interns were misguided and consider whether this was an appropriate response to the offense? Seriously. You really think that was the right way to handle it? I will never agree.
This link wasn’t about kids with new business ideas or processes being squashed for offering them. It was fussing over “I wants.” The context wasn’t some school club or college opinion piece.
It takes time and a record to "earn " the right to bitch. I might not have fired them on the spot, but I wouldn’t have been amused, either. Remember, at least one or two had gone to supervisors and already been told the rule was fixed.
I think they made the mistake of thinking that they can bring some rebellion to corporate America – maybe been listening to some of this year’s political figures on either side and didn’t realize how businesses actually work. Manners matter in business – and you don’t start a petition within a business to get something changed. I’d be pretty embarrassed if my kid started or supported something like that.
At a minimum, I would guess that in many companies those interns would not get offers for real future jobs or good recommendations. Who wants a troublemaker?
A circulated petition to your employer? Lol, that’s using a jackhammer for a corporate culture issue that is better handled by asking discreetly.
College students may be the customer in college. But they need to learn that in the workplace, their employer is the customer.
“You don’t start a petition within a business to get something changed.” Then I am curious how do you get something to be changed? Do you just suck it up unless you have a position of power? What is a petition but a way of expressing that multiple people are concerned about the same issue? I don’t think I agree with the dress code issue, but what if it had been something more serious like unfair treatment through a specific rule or lack of accommodations for people with specific needs (ex: disabilities). Not trying to start an argument, just curious. It seems to me like in many other areas of life such as local and national government, college administrations, and various civil rights movements where petitions are seen as a valid form of expressing concern about a particular issue. While I am concerned about their methods, that is probably the background these interns (I am assuming students) are coming from
That’s why I’m curious what was meant by “petition” here. Was it a memo signed by multiple people asking for reconsideration of a corporate policy (and I still don’t see how that would be a termination-worthy offense), or a set of demands signed by multiple people (that I can see getting fired for, though it still seems extreme without previous problems)? Either of these can be called a “petition” in casual usage.
Really, I wish we had more detail.
As described, the incident does not make either the interns or the company look good.
“A circulated petition to your employer? Lol, that’s using a jackhammer for a corporate culture issue that is better handled by asking discreetly.”
Agreed. And it sounds like several did ask more discreetly. But they didn’t like the answer they got and chose to force the issue with a petition, not cluing in that every full-time employee in the firm is living with and abiding by the dress code rules on a daily basis. But the interns, temporary young employees with limited real world work experience, assumed THEY knew what was best for the company. 8-|
It does say that they only brought it up because they observed other employees not obeying the dress code that they were expected to obey.
Obviously, the interns need to realize that workplaces are not necessarily fair, so they should not be surprised if some other employee has some kind of special privileges due to that employee’s political status in the company. Of course, the company management needs to realize that such things may annoy employees other than the interns, but the other employees may just be cynically whispering behind the management’s back instead of openly challenging the situation.
@ucbalumnus According to what was published, which is all we have to go on, it seems like just 1 employee was referenced as not following the dress code for footwear, the injured vet that had a medical exemption.
"until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.
I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. "
“the worker who was allowed to disobey the dress code was a former soldier who lost her leg and was therefore given permission to wear whatever kind of shoes she could walk in. You can’t even tell, and if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument.”
“Factored it into our argument.” ??
That’s one reason why it seems made up. Sure, it’s small scale. But it’s workplace. The first step, shawn, should have been putting this in its proper perspective. It isn’t a civil liberties issue.
They apparently thought they had the right to challenge a policy. Those who study history/humanities know the potential consequences.
Pick your battles wisely.
Another learning for these hapless interns is you first demonstrate your worth to your employer before you start changing all the rules.
I don’t think the interns wanted to change company rules - just rules as they apply to themselves.
Part of their mistake is to think rules may not apply to them, while simultaneously thinking they’ll
While it was dumb, I don’t think the punishment is appropriate. The interns’ manager should have been clear.
On the other hand, I don’t think this is legit. The reaction meant to elicit is: 'these entitled snowflakes from the safe space/protest generation are unable to function in the real world '. The story’s a bit too much and doesn’t make a lot of sense from a real world perspective.
How is a memo less egregious than a petition?
The way it is described sounded very “elementary school” to me. " It’s not fair! Susie gets to wear flat shoes , why can’t I?" The company was making reasonable accommodations for a disabled worker. IMO, that’s what started this whole thing. The petition writer noticed someone else was able to do something that she wasn’t. She asked for permission and wasn’t given the answer that she wanted so she initiated the petition. I truly believe had the intern not seen someone else not following dress code, the subject would’ve never been addressed .
If I’m going to sign on to teach students, not just to get free or low cost labor, then I’m going to uphold my end of the bargain and teach. Business isn’t just learning the hands-on skills that it takes to do the job, it involves navigating the corporate climate. Some adults have trouble adapting; I’m not at all surprised that students might.
Every broadcast station I worked at had interns. We advised them on lots of things that had nothing to do with producing a show – arrive on time, don’t punch out early or take long lunches, dress appropriately, return promptly from remotes – because our goal was to help
create good employees, not just good broadcasters.
Why fire interns for not acting like an actual employee? Because they should be held to the same standards? Is the company paying them like they’re new hires? I doubt it. It appears to me that the company signed on to teach and dropped the ball. It doesn’t sound like it was the dress code itself that was an issue, but that the interns felt that it didn’t seem to apply to everyone. Communication could have been better, but I don’t think firing these students was the answer.
Kids grow up in environments that are intended for the kids’ benefit. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t rules or that misbehavior doesn’t have consequences. But the fact that the ultimate goal is to benefit the kids has subtle effects that the kids themselves may not realize.
Places of employment don’t exist for the kids’ benefit. Seeing how that changes the dynamics of the interactions between young people and those who are in charge of them is a valuable lesson. It’s one of the reasons why it can be very helpful for a kid to have some sort of job – even if only briefly – before college.
a fast food job in high school… even for a month is very valuable!