i wrote some words on the internet. you may be interested in reading them.

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<p>But, MITChris, this sounds a lot like one of the executives of that investment adviser firm from the Illusion of Validity article who said, “I have done very well for the firm, and no one can take that away from me.” In that case the feedback to the advisers that their performance was no better than random was ignored. To me it begs the question of whether MIT Admissions uses any feedback (grades, graduation rate, crime, student “happiness”, etc) to try to improve the admission process.</p>

<p>GrudeMonk, I think it would be a mistake to say that MIT hasn’t improved its admission process since their establishment in 1861.
If they weren’t doing their job good, we wouldn’t have heard of MIT’s name in the first place.</p>

<p>Phoestre, I wasn’t suggesting that the process hasn’t improved. I really don’t know. I just noted that MITChris took that article to heart and I wondered how the “results” of MIT Admissions are handled.</p>

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<p>That’s the whole thing right - I think Admissions at the very least has the responsibility of not making obvious mistakes with admissions. While they cannot necessarily predict who will shine in what way precisely, they can definitely pick out what would and wouldn’t be a pretty strong class. </p>

<p>As for what to do after ensuring the class is pretty strong, it really becomes crucial to define “better” with some effort. The key to that is examining this statement:</p>

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<p>Now without being too stupid, I’m pretty sure anyone can pick out some superstars. So saying “look, so and so MIT student scored in the top 5 on the Putnam last year” doesn’t cut it. I think what would be most convincing is seeing what exactly an MIT class ends up doing - not just the famous people everyone hears about, but the full 100 percent of the class, including those whose admissions decision was less of a certainty.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if this information is in any way even possible to obtain, though. But still, they do a pretty good job here by at least showing statistics on what kinds of students were admitted in detail.</p>

<p>Right I mean this is what I was talking about as being the heart of the epistemological dilemma. What, really, does it mean to say that a class is “better” than another class? In order to do that, you have to establish some metrics, and you have to weight those metrics based on a value system that you find to be useful. And how you do on this kind of test is really in how you construct it. </p>

<p>For example, take two commonly used metrics: average admit SAT score, and selectivity of the admission rate. In both of these metrics, we’ve been doing better every year: our average admit SAT score has been going up every year, and we’ve become more selective every year, each year over the past 10 years. </p>

<p>I also think both of those metrics are really stupid. </p>

<p>But I mean, this also goes back to evaluating Kahneman’s argument. There’s an objective way to measure stock performance - did the fund perform better or worse than the market average? But there’s no an objective way that I can think of to measure “leadership.” And when you go in there and say “well, yes, our evaluation of leadership was no better than blind guessing”, well, how did they measure the results against which they compared their own evaluations? </p>

<p>So yes, GrudeMonk, we do use feedback, and in all of the metrics you’d suggest we’ve been doing “better” every year. Happiness is up, crime is down, graduation rates are up, hiring rates up, SAT scores up, academic probation down, and so forth. </p>

<p>But the real question is not that. The real question is whether things that aren’t so easily or uncontroversially measured - like dorm cohesion, or diversity of perspective, or personal qualities, and so forth - are better with our process or with a random process. </p>

<p>Here’s the other thing. You’ll notice that Kahneman concedes that there are relationships that can develop where people have better than average guesses. I mean, I know my best friend’s tone of voice better than a random stranger guessing does. The question is under what circumstances does the illusion of validity hold, and under what circumstances is it actually valid. And that’s actually a very difficult thing to show. Because the problem with social science is that it’s usually only reliable when it’s actually falsifying a proposition. </p>

<p>Proposition: stock pickers on average pick better than random chance
Demonstration: false </p>

<p>But just because this is true doesn’t really mean you can carry the insight over to another field as anything other than a hypothesis to be tested. And we do try to test these things - we employ a full time statistician within our office alone to test these sorts of things! - but at the end of the day it just turns out to be really, really difficult to convincingly measure much of what we do.</p>

<p>Which is why I think the real question is, again, not what our process is but what it does, meaning are you happy with the community produced by our admissions process. Because if so then it’s sort of working by definition. That’s not to be unreflective; I don’t want to be a black box. It’s just a recognition that this stuff turns out to be much more difficult to measure and quantify in an unproblematic way than you might initially think, and that while we do try to do that to the extent that we can, at the end of the day what we really care about are the results of the process and doing what we can, by art or by science, to improve it.</p>

<p>So on this subject I wrote another blog post which I scheduled for next week. feedback appreciated, as these discussions are always educational: </p>

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<p>This I suspected. From the big research competitions I’ve been to, it’s almost funny how many of the students present had perfect scores on the SAT (and how many of the then-seniors were going to MIT). The comparison seems reasonable, but, controlling for extracurricular ratings by the admissions office, are admit rates truly flat above a certain class rank/SAT score cutoff?</p>

<p>A friend of mine that worked in MIT’s admissions department for several years provided this description of the selection process:</p>

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<p>is this accurate? If so, divining the exact effect of higher numbers when controlling for extracurricular activities/character should be trivially easy to calculate.</p>

<p>Oh, were you ever a journalist or writer before working at MIT? All of these posts are exceptionally well written.</p>

<p>It’s not entirely accurate (though perhaps it once was) but there is some truth in there. Step 4 is dead-on, while Step 2 is probably the most inaccurate as our current system is quite a bit more complex. My guess is that a lot of highly selective schools have processes that look somewhat like this, though that’s not based on direct inside information from anywhere else. </p>

<p>You’ll forgive me if I don’t go into too much specific detail into what we do nowadays. It’s a little bit like being a GM on a sports team: you might admit to generally having, say, a sabremetric approach (as opposed to other approaches) to evaluating players, but that doesn’t mean you give away the precise formulas you find useful :wink: </p>

<p>That said, I did want to respond to this: </p>

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<p>It’s not actually that simple, even in the system described above. In your hypothetical Step 2 (which again, is quite a bit less complex than our actual process), it does seem easy: control for a value of NNI and poof you have the effect of SAT scores. </p>

<p>Except that under this system it leaves out steps 3 and 4. Because if (as described in Step 2 above) the NI and NNI are indeed “used primarily for sorting”, then the decision doesn’t happen based on the sorting, it happens based on the content of the application (Step 4). Meaning the NNI is something which sorts, not something on which the committee bases the decision. </p>

<p>For example: you might have different students, say, with similar NNIs (on a 1-5 scale most will be similar!) but those NNIs are based on different things (skill in tennis vs skill in standup comedy). And you might select for a different thing (tennis or comedy) which is described by the NNI, but the NNI is not determinative of the decision. And if you just compared a difference in SAT here, you would run the risk of misattributing to a difference in SAT score what was actually a difference in the particular manifestation of the NNI (a desire to bring a comedian rather than a tennis player, or vice versa). </p>

<p>The point is that the approach you describe would run into the problem of endless confounding variables. Which was kind of my general point in the post - the tough part about dealing with these sorts of data is that you often find yourself caring about the cubbyholes and categories into which things are stuffed as opposed to the things themselves. That’s the real difficulty with trying to analyze these things from the perspective of a social science. </p>

<p>And thanks! I don’t have a background in journalism, but I’ve always liked to write, especially writing things which explained complex issues or ideas in accessible ways. The fact that I get to do that at my job is one of my favorite things about it :)</p>

<p>Fair enough, and I understand why you aren’t able to release the exact formulas calculated for admissions purposes. Still, the underlying issue of causation is an interesting one.</p>

<p>Just one other question: Have you considered the implications of the Israeli Parole Study on your admissions decisions? [Time</a> and Judgment: A Study of Judges in Israel - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/time-and-judgment/]Time”>Time and Judgment: A Study of Judges in Israel - The New York Times) basically, the report suggested that in holistic evaluations a student is much more likely to be admitted (or a prisoner offered parole, as was the case) if the application is read directly at the start of the day or shortly after lunch.</p>

<p>And if you have not controlled for the effect, is there a way I can request that you read my MIT application right after lunch? :)</p>

<p>^ Nice…</p>

<p>HAH! </p>

<p>I will do you one better: I will endeavor to only read applications immediately after eating a delicious meal. This of course means that by the end of the season I will have done very little work, or I will be very, very fat…</p>

<p>^ Could make for an interesting expense account filing - turn in receipts for 300 steak & lobster dinners, and when you’re asked to justify it, just say the food was necessary to evaluate applicants fairly :)</p>