@yucca10, no one doubts that Mozart is well outside of the average. Until recently, that had been attributed to innate talent. It was only recently discovered that Mozart’s opportunities were VERY atypical. He was receiving hours a day in professional instruction from the time he was three years old. His father Leopold was a composer, conductor and musician. To say he drove Wolfgang hard would be an understatement.
There’s also no doubt that some advanced level mathematicians such as yourself have varying ability. It’s not easy though to attribute that to born ability. By comparing the final degree and assigning differences to born ability, you assume everyone’s experience along the way is the same. As we all know, they aren’t
Suffice it to say, as far as the level of math that the OP needs, wee aren’t talking the fringes of human ability.
I think the most important piece of advice was from @colorado_mom. Those who simply tolerate math as a means to the next class tend to struggle. Those who enjoy it, for what ever reason, tend to thrive.
I’ll mention this again…the OP made a post and then ghosted out. He/she will not get much use from this feedback without being involved in the thread.
By all means, guys, keep clinging to your dogma. Meanwhile, I cited an actual source based on actual science. “No book will convince me otherwise” is effectively saying “I am not swayed by actual evidence”, at which point there really isn’t a point in arguing anymore.
Computer Engineering is going to be real tough since you’ll probably need Calc 1-3 and Differential equations like all engineering degrees. CS usually requires just Calc 1 & 2 although every college is different. Also, Discrete Math can eat you alive depending on the professor.
Anecdotally, the best programmer I knew as an undergrad could not get past Calc 2. He had his data structures programs done the day they were assigned. It took me 10+ hours for each one. He majored in something else and minored in CS. I’m 100% sure he makes a boatload of money now.
Take a look at an IT type degree. Usually the math requirement is lighter and if you are a good programmer, you can load up on the CS electives that are easier on the math side (Database, OpSystems,Languages).
I have a BS/MS in Math/CS. I’ve been in IT for a long time and can’t remember any math harder than computing some Net Present Values which I learned in Accounting and Financial Mgt classes. It is mostly just algebra level math though.
Even early in my career, programming was a lot of logic and a bit of set theory when writing complex SQL queries. I’m now in Operations and Info Security so the only code I write anymore is to automate something in Powershell. No math at all. Frameworks and APIs are where it is at for the developers.
The big developer joke at work is, our users count widgets and we write software to count those widgets. And we count many billions of widgets!
There are so many opportunities in tech right now that a CS degree is not required. Just take lots of CS and IT classes and try to get jobs/internships doing anything tech related. Stay away from McJobs after freshman year unless you really need the money. I highly respect that work ethic as that was my path, but your resume will be at a competitive disadvantage without relevant experience.
As for OP’s question, not enough info provided. For all we know, this is another. “I got an A- in MVC, am I doomed” thread.
Some are stuck on the old chicken and egg thing.
In the end, being good IS about devotion, not simply genius. And IQ is a number, not a measure of real peformance in the real world. Not to mention the accidents of early exposure. And context. With exceptions, of course. Was Mozart a true genuis or trained from toddlerhood? Are some great performers born to a destiny or influenced by others and their styles?
I’d agree on the need for logic in engineering, which can be introduced at an early age. It can be honed, IF the basics are also there and strong and there’s some spark: curiosity, an understanding of precision (even an affection for it,) willingness to do and re-do, tolerance for the pace and frustrations of engineering, collaborative skills- it’s a mindset. I think it’s one reason so many engineers I know use those skill sets in their off hours, in so many everyday ways not related to their work.
@CheddarcheeseMN Advice like at the beginning of the thread where I told OP that just because someone isn’t great at math now doesn’t mean they are doomed to remain that way? Does that qualify? Maybe check next time.
“You” keep talking about Mozart as if he did not have the “once in a century” gift and his heli-dad trained him to be one of the greatest musicians in human history.
I don’t believe you know how good extreme outliers are. I’ve related the story about getting run over by a future good NFL player in high school. I could work out and practice for 10,000 hours but I never was going to make it past a mediocre D3 program. My physical tools are limited. Why isn’t this the same for cognitive abilities. I’ve watched people try to figure out a 20% tip at dinner. I’ll say just take 10% and double it. They stare at me like I have 2 heads.Many people just have no feel for numbers. Mrs NOKILLI (BA English) could take Pre-Calc for 10,000 years and she will never be able to understand a limit. They again, her writing is beautiful and mine is a choppy mess.
Cognitive includes how we set and pursue goals, stretch and adapt, rebound, our creative sides. No, not everyone has perfect pitch or linebacker genetics. But there’s a reason many kids are influenced by their parents’ careers or the ways of thinking they learn at ther parents’ knees or from other influencers. Or the sorts of drives, even the shortcuts. Did you train our kids to easily figure a tip? Did your wife influence their reading and writing, from an early age?
Of course, there are kids with learning challenges. Andi n many families, different kids gravitate in different directions. But we are all the sum of our parts.
And Mozart was not the only great musician of his century.
People who are dyslexic and dyscalculic don’t display a native ability for academics and it takes numerous hours for them to develop those skills. If they followed your advice none of them would become doctors or scientists, yet they’re not only entering those types of fields they’re winning competitive awards. So it appears that the ability to learn quickly doesn’t necessarily translate to being better and the effort to apply yourself can make people more than capable of competing with others on an extremely high level.
I don’t think we know what the human mind can accomplish or the extent of what any individual can do with their life until they’ve lived all of it. OP, none of us can know if you’re capable of doing the work necessary to get a comp sci degree. You won’t know either unless you try. If you don’t try, the chances of succeeding are 0%. I’d suggest starting at a community college. Take a placement test to find out what your math level is and start from there. I’d also look up the symptoms for dyscalculia and dyslexia. If you think you fit the profile then pursue testing. But don’t waste your time comparing yourself to others. There are always going to be people who know more than we do and people who know less. Set your own goals and don’t rush yourself. If you don’t believe in yourself, nobody else will.
@austinmshauri Think you missed the point of the 10,000 hours. If at the end of 10,000 hours spent on a specific skill, your level is still far below what people would consider to be competent in that skill-you have lost the 10,000 hours and in fact have not proven the silly idea that just doing something will make you good at it. Doing something WILL make you better at something, but it’s really a matter of how good you will become based on the expectations of the skill. If you are not competent despite doing your best to master the skill after many hours do you just continue?
I am not someone with a deep knowledge of dyslexia or dyscalculia but I do know that neither has to do with intelligence at all. Many folks with either/both in fact have very high intelligence. They have to learn in a different manner perhaps but that has nothing at all to do with the discussion. You are talking about someone with a learning disability for lack of a better term not someone who is working at a skill in which they have limited innate ability.
Yes, there will always be folks who are more intelligent and people need to set their own goals. And, they also need to know their limits. Some people are NEVER going to be doctors or engineers as hard as they try and telling themselves they just need to work harder isn’t ever going to work.
So many parents push their kids into areas which they think will be profitable instead of the kids choosing a path which they enjoy AND which is profitable. It’s really a shame to see a kid who became a doctor and is unhappy ( I know one) and it’s also sad to see a kid whose parents push them to become a doctor who really doesn’t have the academic skills (and doesn’t ever get into med school).
Realism is important in all learning. Do you best, try your hardest, work hard, but know when to give up. And don’t try to go into something which is not a fit.
@NoKillli, athletic examples are not germane to this discussion because genetics do determine a person’s size and muscle composition. This too has been studied widely in the literature.
As for the 10,000 hours, posters shouldn’t reference the concept if they don’t understand the original research. It gets missused, just as @Happytimes2001 did. It is NOT simply doing something willy-nilly for 10,000 hours. It is about purposeful practice spending most of the time on things not yet mastered. It also isn’t rigidly 10,000 hours. Different skills require differing amounts of time, some more, some less than 10,000 hours. Lastly, it does not claim that everyone is then equal. It is though saying that the brightest do not manifest their skill without LOTS of work.
Again, this is all straying from original point. You need solid math chops to be an engineer, but not an Einsteinian level of insight.
Since the OP isn’t participating, this is all conjecture.
To get more on track for others that might be reading this thread…
You are paying for college and it comes with a lot of free services. Use all the resources they have, you can to make yourself successful. That is why they are there in the first place. Most colleges have tutoring especially for math. Some of it is graduates students, some peer - peer, some group. Go there the first day and introduce yourself and let them know you “might” not be great in math. Some kids will do all their math homework in this space so when you encounter a problem someone is right there to help you.
Also go to your professor office hours. Seek help. Sometimes it’s the smallest things that need to be pointed out to be successful.
Learning services :again go and ask for help with strategies to make you successful. Sometimes with math it’s actually the reading of the question correctly to find out what they want. Many people have minor reading comprehension issues and makes solving math problems or physics problems etc that much harder.
If you use these suggestions and don’t improve your ability… Then it might be time to move on but you won’t know till you really try.
Even the good advice assumes OP literally meant poor math skills.
Most engineering isn’t what kids think- it’s not inventing the next Apple product by yourself or revolutionizing prosthetics based solely on your own ideas. It’s pieces of a larger project. As one learns, both in class and in real life, you pick up skills that enhance your ability. There are needed aspects of math that are taught and a variety of user tools, plus the computerized tools. Someone with the core skills (curiosity, precison, etc,) can learn. Be a math genius? Not necessary. Be alert, care about results and the team nature, be either visionary or open to it, etc? Necessary.
Imo, the reason kids with “poor math skills” may not succeed is they’re in over their heads. They get behind, frustrated. (And often, as they realize the glory comes in small doses, they can’t find the fit.) If they start with just a dream, no related, relevant experiences and stem knowledge, they have trouble understanding both the greater goals and the parts that need tending to. They don’t have - or don’t show, in the first place- the mindset. To me, that’s not genetics and not genius.
It’s tricky talking 10,000 hours vs native ability. Even a math genius may not have the rest of what it takes to become a successful- and happy- engineer. And we have living examples of adults on CC who struggled with math in high school and did go on to successful engineering careers. The DID learn what they needed.
Alot of kids explain their interest in engineering as wanting to, in effect, one way or another, “save the world.” I suspect the majority of those have no idea what it’s really about.
I’ve deleted the last several posts and I am closing this thread. At this point it has devolved into a flame war and no longer serves its purpose. If @Nipnnbharad wishes to reopen it to participate again, he can PM me and I will unlock it.