<p>My son is getting conflicting advice from his HS guidance counselor and a family friend who is a college placement consultant. We'd be most grateful for your views! At his international school, 12th graders may take 6 or 7 classes per semester. Full IB Diploma students generally take 3 Higher Level and 3 Lower Level subjects. Next year my son is taking HL Physics, HL Math, HL English and HL Computer Science (thus 4 HL classes). He is taking SL French next year also and finishes SL Economics this year, thus satisfying the IB course requirements. He will also take one more semester of IB Theory of Knowledge which started 2nd semester of 11th grade and is a 1 year course. His guidance counselor feels this is a very (most) demanding load and that he should not add a 7th class the first semester. However our American friend says that the kinds of colleges he will be applying to expect applicants to have completed 4 years of each core subject (including history) at the honors level. Unless he adds HL History he will not have 4 years of history. I don't know if his expat guidance counselor, who has a better understanding of the IB program but little experience sending students to Ivies knows best, or if our friend, who has little knowledge of the IB but a good understanding of competitive college admissions, is right. My son loves history but is working to stay at the top of his class and is very involved in a lot of interesting activities plus will have college applications to get out so would rather not use up his one free block unless it is important that he do so. Any opinion? He is applying to Ivies and LAC's with an intended physics or engineering major.</p>
<p>Guidance Counselor is more correct.</p>
<p>If he is doing a full IB diploma doesn’t he also have an extended essay to write? as well as college applications? Does he also have EC commitments? Was the Econ SL a 2 year course which he completed in one year? and will his GC check off “most rigorous curriculum”? Without knowing what other courses he took in 9 and 10 it is difficult to answer.</p>
<p>5 HL pus all else he has to do seems like it would way over commit him time wise just to get the work done, perhaps you could send an email to a prospective school admissions officer with the 2 scenarios and ask if both are acceptable and which is preferable.</p>
<p>I just finished the IB diploma, and 5 HLs would be impossible. Four is stretching it. HL History would be impossible to do in a year anyway. Plus, if he is doing his EE and CAS and everything, he will barely have enough time to eat and sleep.</p>
<p>Listen to the GC.</p>
<p>you cannot take 5 HLs for your diploma (well, you might be able to if you petition the IB program and ask them) so you would have to switch. I’m sure most people who apply to top colleges will have 4 years of history, because in the US it is generally a standard subject, just like English is.</p>
<p>If the kid is on the IB Diploma schedule though, he should be fine, I would think.</p>
<p>You could email schools and ask, or the kid could take SL History instead of econ… just wait and take the econ in college.</p>
<p>This is helpful. To answer your questions - the Economics SL is a one year course which he has just finished (with an A+ and likely 7 on the IB exam). The reason he’d have to take History HL rather than SL is that is all that fits into his schedule with the other classes he’s got. He could take a non-honors history class but that would be filled with kids who aren’t as interested in learning and would lower his gpa because it wouldn’t be weighted. He is shooting for valedictorian so doesn’t want to do that. He took history in 9th and 10th and won the prize for the strongest history student both years. Its just that other interests pulled him toward emphasizing math/physics/compsci/econ as his dreams involve sustainable energy technology. Yes - his guidance counselor will definitley check off most demanding schedule. If he did take History HL it would be more for show than IB requirements as it is a two year course and he would only get through one year and would never take the exam.</p>
<p>There are still schools and school systems that don’t require 4 core courses in all 4 subjects. I would suspect that the IB diplomma is enough. Your son is taking plenty of rigorous courses.</p>
<p>In fact, in our state, economics is the required history for seniors. This year, at least a handful of our students were admitted (and will be attending) Ivies, so I think you have no problem at all. (typical history track here-- civics/geography, world history, American history and then economics.) </p>
<p>Listen to your counselor.</p>
<p>Most American colleges only ask for three years of social studies. Your son’s two years of history and one year of economics fulfill the requirement.</p>
<p>Taking 4 HL subjects is extremely demanding. The U.S. IB school my daughter attended strongly recommended that students take only 3 HLs. I think the guidance counselor is correct to recommend against the 7th course. </p>
<p>In my opinion, a greater concern for your son is the SAT Subject Tests. Highly selective U.S. universities often require students to take at least two of these (a few universities require three). Engineering schools sometimes require that one test be in math and one in a physical science (chemistry or physics). If your son hasn’t taken any SAT Subject Tests yet, he should be making plans to take them in the fall and should be selecting them carefully, based on his school’s strengths, his own strengths, and any specific requirements for the programs he is applying for.</p>
<p>A student who’s in HL math shouldn’t have any difficulty with the Math Level II test (as long as he is willing to review some precalculus topics a bit), but if your son wants to take the SAT Subject Test in physics, he should get some test-preparation books and see whether the material they cover matches what he has learned in the first year of his HL Physics course. He might even want to take a practice test. Depending on exactly what physics topics he has learned so far and how well they match (or don’t match) what he’s expected to know for the exam, he might have to do some studying on his own over the summer.</p>
<p>Thanks - He just informed me that all of his IB classes next year will be shown as HL on his transcript but he can decide in French and Computer Science whether to take the SL or HL exam near the end of 12th grade. Marian, I have just signed him up for the June SAT II Math II and Physics. He took the SAT II Math I last year and got a 750. Just took a practice Math II and got a 700 so he does need to do some prep. He’ll take a practice Physics tomorrow and we’re hoping his curriculum hasn’t been too far off the mark. If it has, and he can’t prep sufficiently by June, I guess he’s got the summer. I noticed one school he’s applying to wants 3 SAT II’s. We’re thinking of English Lit and French in October? He’s done with the SAT I having received his scores from the May test and is happy with them. CR only went up from 700 to 720 but not bad for a dyslexic kid who doesn’t read unless required to. Math and Writing were great.</p>
<p>Another IB parent here…four HLs is nuts. Three with everything else going on senior year is PLENTY.</p>
<p>S2 is taking SL Philosophy as a seventh IB class but is not taking the exam, as he has already done Econ for his sixth subject (A seventh exam is possible, but costs extra. Since noone give credit for SLs anyway, he’s taking it for fun.) He is interested in the subject and a number of his debating/current event/ history buddies will also be in there, so it should be a good time.</p>
<p>If he is applying in engineering and math it doesn’t matter that much…but why doesn’t he just take the 2nd year of Econ HL? My son did the Econ SL first year, liked it a lot and decided to do Econ HL and got a 7. </p>
<p>History IBH is a killer in terms of reading and writing. You will kill his GPA with the added demands if he is a dyslexic kid. Other options would be SL Psychology or a regular history class. He is already doing 4 HL so his GPA is not compromised by one unweighted class. </p>
<p>For college admissions it does not matter if he is Val or Sal. It does matter if he decompensates from another killer class. I would listen to your counselor who knows a lot more about IB, how it plays with the colleges and how your international school does with elite schools.</p>
<p>
I disagree. [Senior</a> year](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1145556-post14.html]Senior”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1145556-post14.html) I completed 5 HL classes (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, English, and History of the Americas), two SL classes (TOK and German), and an AP class (Calculus BC). I graduated second in my class, scored well on my exams, and had plenty of time for clubs, hanging out with friends, applications, etc…it’s all about time management. I would say that it is difficult but certainly not impossible.</p>
<p>If the OP’s son thinks he can handle it and wants to, let him go for it. If not, I’d listen to the counselor’s advice.</p>
<p>Bravo for you. Most of the bright, hardworking, well organized kids who do IB diploma seem to find 3 HL classes plenty. 4 is exceptional. Now that you have bragged maybe you would like to read the OP post carefully and see that her son is dyslexic. Just because it was doable for you doesn’t mean anyone else should ‘go for it’ and the job of a parent is to help kids set themselves up for success, as this parent is trying to do.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How were your classes structured? Did you go to an all IB school? Or were your IB classes mixed with AP? The IB doesn’t even allow you to take 5 HL exams; you must have 2 SLs, and taking the exam and doing the coursework is half the problem. I could easily have taken five HL courses, but having to revise all of them and do the exam would be the killer.</p>
<p>
Robyrm, my point was not to brag (it would be extremely sad if I were bragging about something from years ago), nor was my point that anyone could handle an extremely rigorous courseload. My point was that people shouldn’t underestimate a child’s capabilities, as I firmly believe that students normally know their own limits fairly well. I realize this view clashes with some posts that verge on hover parenting. Note that I said “[only] if thinks he can handle it and wants to” (and he doesn’t seem to want to).</p>
<p>I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer in this scenario, although personally I feel that adding history would be overkill. </p>
<p>Here’s what some of the Ivies and top LACs recommend. None of them require or even necessarily recommend 4 years of history/social studies.</p>
<p>Princeton: 2 social studies, 2 history
Dartmouth: 3 social studies, 3 history
Cornell: 3 social studies, 3 history
Brown: 2 history
Amherst: 2 social studies, 2 history
Swarthmore: 3 history/social studies
Williams: 3 social studies</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not every IB school offers both the HL and SL options in every subject taught there. For example, in the IB program that my daughter graduated from, Economics was offered only as an SL subject. There were other subjects, as well, that were offered only at one level, such as Biology (HL only), Chemistry (SL only), and Psychology (SL only). Other subjects, such as Physics and Music, were offered at both the Higher and Standard Levels.</p>
<p>Different IB schools structure their programs in different ways. For this reason, it’s hard to generalize from one IB school to another.</p>
<p>Thought I had posted this yesterday, but apparently not…some schools will require that IB cancdidates take specific HL exams. At S2’s school, HL English and HL Euro are required of ALL full diploma candidates. This is the case at his school to make sure they’ve covered state requirements and to some extent, on the depth of the faculty. The students can then choose their third HL exam among the options the school has available. </p>
<p>The coordinator at S2’s school strongly discourages folks from signing up for a fourth HL. Senior year is too busy already.</p>