I will, now that I know that is the question to ask…I didn’t have the information to form the question before all of the help I got here!
http://www.nsep.gov/content/language-flagship
http://www.thelanguageflagship.org/content/hindi-urdu
You may want to ask what’s the average grade for students from your school in Hindi Language B.
I fear that even good students from the Southern states wouldn’t be able to compete with students from the Hindi belt (IB grading, as far as I know, is NOT state-based or province-based, so that students from Chennai would be compared with students from Delhi, even in Language B.)
Would the IB students in the Hindi speaking states be taking IB Hindi Language A or IB Hindi Language B?
They could take either one (they could take English Language A and Hindi Language B, or the reverse).
@MYOS1634 @ucbalumnus - here is what the school told me. It is offered as Language B. It is a “global subject” and is graded through rubrics, irrespective of demographic identify of examinee. They said that IB grading is blind about origin and does not follow a curve model of grading but a rubric model. The rubric is translated to a grade based on a grade boundary. The average for the last two years was 5 for both HL and SL levels.
Does this then address the concern about being at a disadvantage vis a vis students from Hindi speaking parts of India?
This is what I worried about actually. Because a “5” doesn’t cut it for most American universities. Their expectations are very high, of at least 6X6… And since you said your daughter isn’t among the top students, she may or may not get a 5, that 5 isn’t a sure thing. Which means she’d have to devote a lot of time to this subject, time that would be taken from the other subjects.
Spanish ab initio sounds easier for an SL subject.
She is a top student in her school, first in her class Freshman year. However Hindi has always required a huge amount of work for her to be at the top. It may be time to end the Hindi torture!
^I apologize for an imprecision: I should have said “most TOP American universities”, ie., universities outside those frequently discussed on this website would be fine with a 5. But for a top student spending a lot of time on a subject with a hope of a 5 isn’t the most productive way of spending time.
Her Hindi is probably good enough for her to continue with it at the college-junior level if she wishes (CEF B2 in all likelihood - if you can get that externally certified actually it’d be good for her application. B2 would be an IGCSE grade C-A and an about 1800-2,000 word lexicon for reading/writing, and B1 for listening/speaking.)
If the Spanish teaching isn’t good enough at her school she can easily supplement it so she can aim for 6-7 in Spanish - ab initio language cannot be taken by heritage speakers.
(In addition, she can supplement her application with a Spanish subject test, which is offered every time the SAT is administered except November when it’s designed for heritage speakers.)
IMO, it’s unlikely that a student in her third semester would score high enough on a Subject Test for this to be meaningful.
Huh? A score of 5 (or sometimes even 4) on an IB HL language exam is often seen as equivalent to completion of first year college language courses (though many colleges recommend or require departmental placement advising or exams, regardless of IB or AP credit) and/or given credit units at colleges that give credit units for IB exams.
http://ctl.utexas.edu/studenttesting/exams?field_subject_area_tid=2&field_exam_type_tid=All&combine=Hindi
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ib-credits/index.html
http://admissions.umich.edu/apply/freshmen-applicants/ap-ib-credit
https://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/registrar/students/baccalaureate-credit
If that is the case, why would she be worried about the IB Hindi exam?
What does she want to do, and does she have academic or career aspirations that can affect what language(s) are useful for her?
This is really the relevant question. If Hindi will be useful in the future, study Hindi. if it won’t be useful, don’t. The whole conversation about a 5 vs a 6 or HL vs SL vs ab initio is all smoke and mirrors. I highly doubt that which language she studies for her IB diploma will be the determining factor for what schools accept her.
No, the choice of language won’t affect acceptance… but choosing a hard vs. Easy language affects her total score, which is what top universities want to see regardless of language chosen - for a top university a 5 needs to be offset by a 7 in something else and a 7 is very very very hard to get. This is Language B SL for a student who will be competing with students from the Hindi belt who took English for Language A (not an uncommon occurrence, understatement.) Expected level of achievement for this subject will be high and require a lot of work. Spanish ab initio is not a walk in the park of course, but much easier, especially for a trilingual student.
Ucb: Language B Sl in Hindi is equivalent to junior- level foreign language outside of the critical flagship ie., CEF B1/2. In the US, college students studying Hindi are like “ab initio” freshman year, then reach A2 sometimes B1 their second year if they’re very good but often later. B2 is advanced and what most majors have at the end of senior year, except those who studied abroad and started with a high level of proficiency. A student who’s taken Hindi classes her whole life -even if struggling- has de facto B1 level - apparently B1 can be a D at icgse. So if OP’s daughter wants to continue with Hindi at a US college she will be fine without taking further Hindi.
I see a lot of risks in taking Hindi and not many benefits- and I m a big defender of less commonly taught languages and the critical language flagship.
However regarding Subject tests I may be overestimating Ops daughter ability to reach A2 level in 3semesters. (Sat subject tests are.cued to roughly A2 with a few B1 questions, except for the November tests which are a bit different due to the listening portion. AP is cued to B1 with a few B2 questions. Ab initio second year evaluations are cued to A2, suggesting a college/near-college pace.)
Would you clarify this statement? This is the first time I have seen the “with listening” test referred to as for heritage speakers.
I do agree with @skieurope that most students would not be prepared for either subject test after such a short time. (CB recommends at least 2 yrs but recommends more for even w/o listening.)
OP, an alternative approach might be to take a Hindi language certification test though Language Tesing International. http://www.languagetesting.com/find-a-test That would provide some sort of outside validation for her yrs of effort.
Re #32
What US universities use IB scores for admission or make admission offers contingent on IB scores (rather than grades) for in progress IB courses?
This does seem like a variant of the common question “should I take an easy course and get an A or risk a B in a hard course?”.
2years in a US high school = A1. But ab initio is cued to A2 so I don’t know. It’d mean three years in a good program, crammed into 2. I suppose Op could ask the school.
Ok, the November tests are not specifically designated for heritage speakers. But they’re clearly different offerings than what’s typically offered for FL at many us high schools and the high results, very different from the typical results, all indicate their primary target or involuntary target is heritage speakers or students who are/have been immersed in the language they’re taking the test in. Obviously this also applies to expat kids and immersion students. I hope I didn’t confuse readers with that shorthand.
Wow the Language Testing International reference is perfect for so many kids who need to certify proficiency in less commonly taught languages!
November SAT subject tests are probably the latest possible ones that HS seniors can take in time for college applications. Seniors currently enrolled in foreign language courses are likely more advanced on average than juniors taking the foreign language tests in the spring, and are back in practice in class for a few months (unlike in the early fall test dates), so that can result in higher scores in November than on other dates.
True, but even if the school follows the Indian academic year, as opposed to the “traditional” academic year, she won’t have finished by the time she would need to take the Subject Test, but as stated, OP can verify with the school.
November is the only month that the with listening exams are offered. W/o listening are not an option in Nov.
^yes, which is why I said to take the Spanish exam outside of November.
At the very least, students who take the November test have enough confidence that they can handle grammar, reading AND a section in the exam that others don’t have to deal with.
Compare the way both exams are described:
Taking the Spanish Subject Test is an impresionante way to highlight your knowledge of Spanish and demonstrate your interest in the Spanish language during the college-admission process
vs.
Whether you developed your Spanish language skills in school or outside the classroom (e.g., en su casa), taking the Spanish with Listening Subject Test can enhance your college application.
UCB’s explanation could explain the modest increases between non-listening and listening for languages taught in US HS (French, Spanish…). Keep in mind 640 is considered good enough to grant exemptions in many US universities- the only case when the Subject test, in effect, acts like an AP test.