<p>I think this question has been posted before and I read some of the answers on line. Generally speaking, my feeling is IB is more rigour than AP. I do not know why it is more rigour. Is it because the kids have to take 6 college level classes for IB but can take less college level classes for AP? Or is it because you have to take some classes that you are not good at for IB since you cannot chose, while you can only take the AP classes you are good at? Or be more fair to say, comparing the same subject, for example, IB physics and AP physics, IB is harder? My son has the choice to do IB or AP next two year and I am struggling to figure out which one is better for him. Some says IB prepare you better for college and some says it does better job for training the way how people view the world, why is that? I also heard kids doing IB program basically dedicate their sleeping time due to the heavy workload. Is it a common problem for IB program? What can kids benefit from IB program if it requests so much work? There are a lot of questions. Thank you in advance for your help.</p>
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<p>Not necessarily. An IB student may be taking three HL (college level, in theory) and three SL (honors high school level) courses in his/her senior year.</p>
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<p>It likely depends on the subject. For example, in math, the usual thought is that IB HL > AP BC > AP AB > IB SL. Some posters in other threads have claimed that IB curricula are generally stronger than AP curriculum in humanities and social studies but the reverse is the case in sciences.</p>
<p>Of course, which AP and IB HL subjects your high school offers makes a difference in how appropriate each curriculum is for a given student.</p>
<p>A few questions for you to start with:</p>
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<li><p>How good are the IB and AP options available to your son? Do most of the students in both programs pass the tests? I ask this because if the quality of the programs is not the best, a student may be better off in AP classes because there are lots of study materials (test preparation books) available that can help fill the gaps. It’s harder to find materials that can help an IB student overcome the limitations of a poor or new program. </p></li>
<li><p>Does your son have a preference? If both programs are equally well taught, it may be a good idea to respect his preference. He probably has good reasons for it.</p></li>
<li><p>If your son’s interests lie in the area of math and science, will the IB program allow him to take as many courses – and as many high-level courses – in these subjects as he wants or needs? Depending on exactly how the IB program is run at your son’s school, and depending on exactly what he’s interested in, it may or may not meet his needs.</p></li>
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<p>In our HS’s IB programme (!) there is a lot of emphasis on writing, independent work, and learning for the sake of learning, not for getting college credit or pumping up the GPA. </p>
<p>I gotta wonder tho, how come that in our HS, 35% take at least one AP class, and yet only 10 kids a year (from a graduating class of nearly 1000) bother to complete the IB sequence. </p>
<p>DD2 is headed to pre-IB (read, lots of honors and AP for first two years) and IB. I also think STEM is better for AP’s here, but rigor is rigor :). </p>
<p>The big concern I would have is the cost of IB…</p>
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That is the usual interpretation, but I am not sure I agree. For many/most subjects, SL is not any less rigorous than HL; the primary difference is often simply that SL courses last a single year, whereas HL courses take two. Many high schools teach two years of IB science, for example, with some students in the class choosing to drop it at the end of junior year and take the SL exam while others soldier on for the HL exam senior year. Taking history as an example, year one usually corresponds quite closely to APUSH, whereas year two focuses on 20th century topics and has no good AP parallel. </p>
<p>Math is perhaps the most notable exception, and Math SL and HL are rather different.</p>
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I disagree with this, or at least with the last part. I took Biology HL, Chemistry HL, and AP Physics C; for IB Bio and Chem I also took the AP exams. Most IB sciences cover more material than the AP sciences at HL; SL covers either about the same or slightly less than AP, depending on your high school. Physics is the exception among the sciences; for reasons unknown to me, IB Physics does not use calculus, which I deem necessary for a good understanding of the subject. My experience is admittedly rather dated at this point, but I can’t imagine that things have changed dramatically.</p>
<p>This choice depends very much on the individual program.</p>
<p>My S was in an IB magnet program which started with something like 130 kids and about 120 of them got the IB diploma. He had plenty to do, but the workload wasn’t overwhelming. But his program has been around for 25 or 30 years and the school has figured out how to run it.</p>
<p>I think the main difference between AP and IB courses are the assessments. IB requires writing, oral presentations, labs, etc. (as appropriate for the subject) that are externally assessed in addition to the exam. AP only has the exam, and I’ve known AP teachers that spend a lot of time prepping students for the kind of short essay questions that appear on the AP exams at the expense of more significant work like term papers. IB requires the papers, too.</p>
<p>Thanks. Our school offers English HL, Spanish Level 4, History HL, Physics SL, Math SL/AP Calculus, Business & Management SL for the 1st year and English HL, Spanish Level 5, History HL, Physics HL, Math HL, ITGS SLfor the 2nd year. I think my son is more interested in science than humanlity so it is good to know AP is stronger in science than IB. What is BC, AB? Thank you!</p>
<p>luckymother,
Now check what AP science courses the school offers. Ask if there are scheduling issues that prevent a student from taking all the advanced courses in either approach. You might actually find out that the AP and IB science classes are the exact same course. A statement like “AP is stronger in science than IB” may or may not be true at a particular school.</p>
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<p>Colleges generally do not give any credit or placement for SL, but they may do so for HL.</p>
<p>But what you describe above seems to match with that – if the high school teaches SL one year and HL the next, the SL would be the honors high school level course, followed by the HL (theoretically) college level course. This would be roughly analogous to teaching a non-IB/AP honors high school level course one year, followed by an AP course in the same subject the following year.</p>
<p>Granted, an IB SL course may be significantly more rigorous than a typical high school honors course.</p>
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<p>These refer to AP calculus (math). AB is usually equivalent to first semester college freshman calculus. BC is usually equivalent to a year of college freshman calculus. For comparison, IB math HL is also usually equivalent to a year of college freshman calculus (but is often considered more rigorous), while IB math SL usually gives no college credit or placement (though it contains a small introduction to calculus).</p>
<p>Our D completed her final IB exam this afternoon. The program has been a great fit for her. At her high school, the first year of many HL classes are AP classes, so she has done both. In IB the kids do internal assessments, and multiple papers in each subject–so they have several ways to demonstrate that they have mastered the material. They also write a lot of essays and the tests are different–more comprehensive, application than just memorize and recite.</p>
<p>One key to the decision is having a LOT of information about how your school administers IB. D’s school has an amazing diploma rate, and all the kids have AP tests as well (not in the same subjects). You need to know all the options at the high school your student will be attending. Keep in mind that colleges, generally, do not count both AP and IB in the same subject. And if you are given a list of class options, ask how often they are offered, that can make a difference.</p>
<p>For the right student IB is a rigorous, but enjoyable challenge. For the student that doesn’t like a lot of essays, and a lot of reading, AP may be aa more appropriate choice. I am not saying one is better than the other, I do think IB is more challenging that AP (keep in mind our D has done both).</p>
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No. What you term an honors high school course is roughly equivalent to the MYIB courses students take as a freshman or sophomore (i.e. intro biology/chem or year 2/3 of a language). As a junior and/or senior, you then take subjects at the SL or HL level. These courses immediately jump into the deep end and are demanding; year two is not somehow more in-depth or difficult than year one. </p>
<p>Think of it as taking an AP course and adding tons of extra topics and material (e.g. organic chem, medicine/drugs, and/or environmental chem for chemistry) until it requires two years. That’s an HL course. An SL course is often that end product except only year one of it. The reason colleges do not know quite what to make of SL is that it’s an odd beast - it covers some topics that AP doesn’t yet misses others.</p>
<p>Your comparison is akin to equating the first semester of a year-long college intro biology sequence with an honors high school bio class and the second semester with AP biology. It’s simply incorrect and not a good comparison.</p>
<p>Most of the kids past their test in both IB and AP. IB is a fairly new program in our area. IB program is required for gifted students in our school so I can not tell if it is because the teachers are good to prepare the kids for the test or the kids are good at preparing themselves.</p>
<p>Does college have requirement that you have to take humanlity class, especially top school? Is that why people say IB prepare you better for college?</p>
<p>Another big difference in the sciences is that the AP curriculum is pretty standard while the IB curriculum throws has several options of highly non-standard things. My physics class covered both AP C and IB HL and while the AP curriculum used calculus and was very similar to typical introductory college physics classes for scientists and engineers, the IB curriculum instead of covering calculus covered bizarre topics like general relativity [a complete waste of time considering the lack of math. Typically differential geometry is required and we didn’t even have basic calculus], global warming, and the effects of electrical power lines on communities. The IB biology and math syllabi also included various random topics.</p>
<p>All of my kids attended schools that offer both AP and IB and my kids did NOT say that IB were harder. For science and languages, the AP courses were harder. I get the impression that IB may be harder for history but none of my kids took both to compare. (Mind you, my kids are good writers so maybe IB is harder for kids who aren’t naturally good writers.) I think there are a few things to consider:</p>
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<li>Most important is the quality of instruction and pass rate</li>
<li>What specific courses are to be taken? There are easier IB classes and easier AP classes. Really, the kid choosing between AP Chem and IB Chem is probably in a good place for college and can choose based on his interests, teachers, etc. </li>
<li> My kids chose English (AP lit versus IB lit), based on the readings. </li>
<li>If credit is to be sought, it is easier to get AP credit. If a student is going to school outside the U.S., IB is preferable. </li>
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<p>At our school, parents often tell each other that the kids won’t be accepted at a top school unless they do the full IB program but what I found to be the difference was that many AP kids only take classes in their stronger subjects. When my kids have taken AP across the board (AP science, AP social studies, AP Eng, AP foreign language, Calculus), they do as well as the IB kids in college admissions.</p>
<p>Different hs handle AP, IB, and AP/IB mix differently. But for those schools doing the “full IB” package, there is great rigor, enforced by strict and audited requirements including extras such as Extended Essay and CAS (150 hours) and “Group 4” (science collaboration project) . This is sometimes good, sometimes bad. It seems like IB students are especially well prepared for college, but they usually have to work their tail off to get through it. For some kids, the stress is too much at that age.</p>
<p>IB students may be better prepared for college, but some of them may suffer in terms of college admissions.</p>
<p>It’s important to remember that American IB students are not admitted to American colleges on the basis of their IB scores. They are admitted on the basis of the same criteria used to judge everyone else – rigor of their curriculum, GPA, SAT/ACT/SAT Subject Test scores, teacher recommendations, essays, and extracurricular activities.</p>
<p>Full IB diploma candidates may have an advantage when it comes to rigor (although you can easily plan an AP-heavy curriculum that’s just as rigorous). But they may be at a disadvantage when it comes to GPA and SAT Subject Test scores. Because IB courses are demanding and because students can’t avoid taking advanced (at least SL) courses in their worst subjects, an IB student’s GPA may be lower than it would have been if the student had been in a regular program and judiciously chose AP courses that played to his strengths. And the content of IB courses was not designed with SAT Subject Tests in mind; it can be a challenge for an IB student to find Subject Tests that he is prepared to do well in by the end of 11th grade.</p>
<p>One other thing: one of my kids refused to do a full IB program because they would have to slow down progress in language. This happens with math also. IB classes can only be taken in the last 2 years and it is possible for students to take comparable AP classes much earlier on.</p>
<p>Our school offers a bunch of languages and Spanish/French at IB. Their regular languages go up to 5 or more, so for someone interested there’s plenty of opportunity. For math it is exactly what you wrote, the SL only, not HL. Interestingly enough they have a beyond awesome IB biology, phys, and chem.</p>
<p>We too got the impression that for science/math AP has the edge, not by much but an edge nonetheless. Regardless, we’re going the IB route because of the writing/independent work and awesome Biology coursework.</p>
<p>^^ Our school offers a bunch of languages too. Just to explain… my kid was ready to take AP in 9th grade. The IB language standards in French and Spanish are lower (that from the teacher, confirmed by my kid who took both IB and AP language tests in the past week) so it would make no sense to wait to take IB until the last two years of high school. My kid took AP foreign language (both language and lit) as an underclassman, and added more APs in junior/senior year. This problem also comes up for kids who can take AP Calc as 9th or 10th graders.</p>
<p>In our school, the AP course is the first year of the HL sequence in several areas, for example AP Bio is the first year of Bio HL for IB. Clearly the Bio HL covers more material. Math sequence can be AP Calc (either AB or BC) as first year of Math HL. AP US History is the first year of History of the Americas HL. English is taught as a two year sequence of IB specific classes. They take World History Honors as freshman, followed by AP Euro as sophmores.
Foreign Language is not a strength of this school (really it’s a huge weakness), but the students can do 4Honors as a Junior (ie Spanish 4H) and take the SL test for IB…and do well. If you want to do the HL test you would take HL as a Senior–few kids choose to do that. AP Spanish is also an option.
It is critical to find out how IB functions in your school, all the options, how often the classes are offered, etc.
As far as impacting GPA that is very individual. Some kids do better in the IB format (more essay, less multiple choice). Other kids get stressed and overwhelmed. I would find out the exit options. For D, she did extremely well in IB, couldn’t have done better. It suits her. And the Subject Tests were no problem, taken Junior Year after AP US History and AP Bio. Teachers really get to know the students in the program so the LORs were not an issue.</p>