IB vs. AP

Parents Forum
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<p>I think the answer is …it depends. On the student, their learning style, the quality of your program, teachers, and the offerings. </p>

<p>Our school offers both and I have a D in IB, and a son who will opt for the AP track. </p>

<p>IB is really writing and oral presentation focused. I love this aspect for my D, who really repsonds and learns this way. I am not a fan for my S who is very much a STEM kid. </p>

<p>Both have good and bad. I think IB is a bit more holistic in approach, but it can be very stressful for kids that do not respond to the oral and writing focus. </p>

<p>I don’t think one is more rigorous than the other.</p>

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<p>no offense, but it’s clear you don’t know much at all about the IB Program. You are arguing that students in the IB Diploma program take the equivalent of 3 AP exams? That is… misguided to say the least.</p>

<p>A student can take IB English SL, get a 7, and then take both AP English tests, scoring 5s, and get credit for only the AP English, even though the IB class was just as difficult. So, what happens in HL English? Exactly. It goes further. SL IB exams are comparable to AP tests (except BC Calc), and HL exams cover more material in more depth.</p>

<p>Furthermore, IB exams are curved internationally, so only the top few percent get a 7. Some AP tests have more than 40 or 50% of students scoring a 5. For this reason, AP exams are generally much easier. And AP exams have lots of multiple choice. Seriously?</p>

<p>I took the AP Gov test 2 years after I took preIB Gov and I got a 4 with zero prep. Please do not try to explain how challenging AP classes/exams are compared to IB.</p>

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<p>This is not true. Your school is not implementing the program correctly.</p>

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<p>AP is the way to go unless you want to go to college abroad. AP has more flexible course offerings. In general, Kids who followed the AP track did better with college admissions at our school. We found that the IB zealots preach about the advantages and we found just the opposite!</p>

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<p>In the “Ask the Dean” section there’s a question about AP vs. IB and the response says that some Adcoms can be “snooty” about people who take some IB classes without going for the full diploma.</p>

<p>Our school offers the full IB diploma, lots of APs and also the option to mix and match. I don’t think the full IB diploma will be an option for my son as the language he has chosen doesn’t lead to an IB class/test. Does that really mean he shouldn’t take any IB classes, even if he has a good reason to do so. For example, at our high school there’s no AP music theory, but there is IB music theory. AP Chemistry is also only taught as a double period class (e.g. 2 periods a day for 1 semester). If his schedule didn’t allow that he could take the Chem SL class instead which is year long. </p>

<p>Is mixing AP and IB really a bad idea? Or am I overinterpretting the words “snooty”?</p>

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<p>IB zealots have a lot do with the success of the program in the US. That and the GPA/rankings boosts that are so sought-after in states such as Texas. All in all, AP and IB are pretty comparable. None of them being true college curricula. </p>

<p>Some of the stories regarding the demands of the IB are rather silly, especially the ones about the essay requirements. The agony of writing a 4000 words essay? Seriously? </p>

<p>Our system of education would have been served had the IB remained the remedial program for the European elite it was created for. Just as a much lesser influence of the AP boondoggle.</p>

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<p>Soccerguy, please explain your statement to me. I haven’t seen a school that allows students to take the IB courses in 9th or 10th grade (only pre-IB, if a school offers that). Could you please link me to a school that allows underclassmen to take IB courses before that? </p>

<p>I do want to say that, despite what you say, I know for a fact that IB is not always ‘harder’ than AP. Like I said, the AP foreign language curricula covers more material. As far as the English AP… it is not necessary to take an AP English course to get a 5 in both AP English exams. As a matter of fact, a student can take Honors English 12 at a prep school (many do not offer a specific class called AP English), sit in on the exams and earn a 5. That doesn’t mean the Honors class ‘goes further.’</p>

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<p>xiggi, it’s not just an essay. It’s a self-directed research project, culminating in a paper which presents the student’s work. </p>

<p>turbo, I’m not sure what you mean when you say you’d be concerned about the cost. I know that some IB programs are at private schools, but our MYP/IB are at a middle school and high school in the local school district. Our only out-of-pocket cost was the tests.</p>

<p>luckymother, IB differs from AP in that it is an integrated program, not a collection of classes. It is international and interdisciplinary in focus, and it emphasizes critical thinking and communication, both oral and written. It aims to produces students who are lifelong learners. It isn’t explicitly a college prep program, but colleges have a high regard for the IB Diploma. Here is a sampling of major colleges’ opinions:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.wilmingtonfriends.org/page.aspx?pid=410[/url]”>http://www.wilmingtonfriends.org/page.aspx?pid=410&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Even in college STEM classes, IB students excel. And Virginia Tech found that, once they get to college, IB students had a decided advantage over AP students:</p>

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<p>If your school has a good IB program, IMO it’s worth checking out. It can take several years to get established at a given school, though; I wouldn’t send my student into IB unless it had been at that school for at least 5 years.</p>

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<p>That makes a lot of difference! The IB is a testament to pretentiousness, if there was ever one.</p>

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<p>Project ID: 760058Project Type: FixedBudget: $30-$250 USD
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I am looking for quality not quantity.</p>

<p>The essay will be on the book THINGS FALL APART by Chinua Achebe.
I am aware that not everyone has read this book, which is why I have attached it as an e-book.
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<p>The essay must meet a high standard. There are criteria provided by the IB that will be used to assess it by a moderator, and I will provide the selected writer with this. I will expect the writer to meet this criteria.</p>

<p>I am looking for a writer who is a very fluent English speaker and an extremely proficient writer. The essay must be analytical, and must have a ‘research question’ (I will give examples and guidelines when I select the writer), so the writer must also be ready to analyze the book or at least one aspect of it.
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<p>@2collegewego at my high school unusually advanced 9th and 10th graders are allowed to take IB classes although not the IB tests. I suspect this is not that atypical because what else are IB schools going to do with students that are a year or two ahead of everyone else in their grade in a particular subject?</p>

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<p>@LasMa If Virgina Tech survey is a comparison is between students who have taken at least 1 AP test and students will full IB diplomas of course than IB students are going to do better in college but that doesn’t mean that IB is a better program. A better comparison would be full IB students versus students with 6+ APs.</p>

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<p>I’ve been in both and from my experience, it depends on you. I learn better learning underlying concepts and IB stresses that, so it was easier for me than AP. On the other hand, I know people who like AP because it’s more “practical”. I guess a better way to put it is that AP is good if you just want the college credit( or just get in), while IB is better of you’re genuinely interested in the subject. Oh, and the workload isn’t too bad, you just can’t fall behind. As long as you stay on top of things, you still have time for ECs, sleep, and <em>gasp</em> a social life.</p>

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<p>It also depends on the course. Somehow who is actually interested in physics will be much better off taking AP physics C would uses calculus instead of IB physics HL which does not.</p>

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<p>The cost to the school district, I mean. I have read certain anti-IB sites that claim that IB is the spawn of the United Nations, conspiracy theory galore, et. al. but one can not dispute that there is cost involved. The ‘take’ rate for IB at our extremely large HS is trivial, and the graduation rate even more trivial. And it ain’t because the kids are not smart. </p>

<p>We chose the IB for DD2 only because its style is more like DD2’s, she likes to work independently, is a capable writer, and so on. I do not really care for college credit, and the admission game is random enough as it is for good students even that the extra push from IB may not be noticeable.</p>

<p>But there is a cost to the schools, as I said, and for a handful of kids that graduate the cost may not be worthwhile. Not my call obviously, and not my district’s as we have sports facilities that dwarf most colleges… But ultimately someone pays the IB or AP piper.</p>

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<p>D2 went to a high school from 9th-10th which didn’t offer IB, only APs. When she transferred to her new high school she decided to do IB. D2 is a humanities student with excellent writing skills, trained/taught very well by her previous prep school. She found IB to be very rigid in its style of writing and presenting. When writing a research paper, it had to be in the exact format dictated by the program, the content wasn’t as important. She found herself doing a lot of busy work, not necessary interesting work. She didn’t find IB courses to be more rigorous than courses she was taking at the other school. Books she was reading for English HL, she already read most of them in her 10th grade honors English. She said discussions they had in her 10th grade class were more indepth and interesting because they had the luxury of going into different directions, and her peers were better students. She is actually concerned if she would be as well prepared when she goes off to college. Kids from her school who got into top tier schools didn’t all take IB, especially STEM kids.</p>

<p>I was under the impression that IB was suppose to be a great program, but after D2 experience I really don’t think so. It is a good program, like honors program at a large public university, but if you are going to a top tier school there is no need for IB or honors program.</p>

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<p>At our high school, the IB students do much better in college admissions than the AP track (we’ve been keeping records). And they tend to do better at college (hard to keep records, but we are trying). But that doesn’t mean IB is for everyone.</p>

<p>And Xiggi, there are folks who try to cheat on every exam/class format/etc. Doesn’t mean they are successful at it. Or that it’s a good idea.</p>

<p>You can argue forever which test is “harder”. It seems to me, it depends on the student. And you need to remember that IB scores are not just the results of one test on one day. They include Internal Assessments (both oral and written, lab work for science classes), and multiple tests on multiple days. The final overall score includes Theory of Knowledge and the Extended Essay. </p>

<p>There are some non IB students who take a few IB classes. The school works it out. Again, anyone trying to make this decision needs a lot of information from the school they are considering. </p>

<p>Many colleges give credit for the overall IB score and/or credit/placement based on individual IB HL exams (sometimes depending on the overall score). So the credit will vary from college to college…just like AP only. Since D’s HS uses AP classes as the first year of some IB HL classes, she will receive credit for those and her overall IB score or HL tests. Up to the maximum allowed.</p>

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<p>Sorry, forgot to adress the cost issue:</p>

<p>The cost to the school is really minor, at our public school we pay for D’s tests (just like we pay for the AP tests). The school/IB Boosters did apply for and receive a grant to cover some costs for the Program Co-Ordinator. </p>

<p>For years many in our community believed no one graduated from the IB program…likely because the test scores come out in July. The students were not recognized as IB students at graduation. Now IB students are recognized at graduation (as Diploma candidates). It really was a visability issue. Another question to ask if considering IB.</p>

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<p>turbo, thanks for the clarification.</p>

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<p>If you believe the anti-IB sites :slight_smile: the cost is not really that minor if you divide the cost to the school by the number of IB diplomas granted per school. Our HS has a budget that is beyond huge and they’re not hurting ($4M for a weight room for the football team…) so if the IB cost is say around $100k a year it’s peanuts, but if we’re only graduating 10 IB’ers a year that’s $10k/year per student. </p>

<p>Again in my view as a (soon to be) IB parent, the thing that I find important is the ability to ‘stick with the program’ and do whatever it takes to complete the program even if you have to take courses outside your ‘comfort zone’.</p>

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<p>Although this post could be interpreted in different ways, it offers a glimpse at the manner decisions have usually been made in the the education system. There is rarely a concern for spending money wisely, be it in transforming schools into glorified country clubs or “investing” in programs that are support and support the elite element of a school. The IB program has been a darling for teachers who seek to separate the “easy to teach students” from the rest of the riff-raff and line themselves up for bonus and sinecures. It’s also been a great answer for the parents who were served the proverbial firewater with promises of “excellence.”</p>

<p>In the meantime, there is a reason why the IB program has mostly been adopted by the public schools “leaders” who think a “school within a school” elevates them to a quasi-private status, and sell this idea to parents as a less costly alternative to private schools. And there is a reason wny most private selective schools have resisted the novelty program and maintained a much more equitable and competitive system of honors and advanced classes. </p>

<p>Again, the IB is unfortunately here to stay, and will be another testament to everything that is wrong in our public system of education. And wrong it is!</p>

<p>Take a look at your community and make a list of the best schools in it, including privates. Then compare that to the listing posted at the IB site. Enough said!</p>