IB vs. AP

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>If your school allows it, you may take IB courses in whatever year they allow. Schools have various programs to follow, but have certain restrictions and mandates in the IB course.</p>

<p>In an AP course - it is preparation for the AP exam. I know of a LOT of AP courses that only cover part of what is on an AP exam (enough to get maybe a 3) - and expect the students to read and study on their own to make up the difference to get 4’s and 5’s. I also know some schools which split AP content over 2 years of instruction. I also know schools which cover everything in one year with very high success of 5’s. </p>

<p>AP courses may also be IB courses at a high school.</p>

<p>Because IB courses have certain mandates, if someone comes in week in certain areas,they may feel you aren’t prepared to enter it. (For instance - in our district, a student is pretty much so expected to have had 3 years of the same language BEFORE starting high school language. So, the IB language program is VERY advanced. If someone came into our district taking IB French after only have 3 years of French in high school elsewhere, they may be in for a rude awakening. I can also tell you from my daughter’s experience. She graduated from high school a year early - on the IB track but never completed it because of early graduation. At college, she completely tested out of Calculus without ever taking that level of IB math - because her pre-calc was already there. —It was also the AP level of math.)</p>

<p>Anyway - colleges can pretty much so know a school with an IB program has very strong competitive courses. They do value them as stronger than AP coursework. (I’ve worked in plenty of admissions for various colleges.) They rely on AP exam scores – not the fact that you took an AP course. So, pretty much – if you take an AP course and not the exam, it’s treated like an “honors” class and not necessarily that you were taking collegiate level work. They also realize most high schools do not offer IB courses. Taking 1 or 2 IB courses makes no more impression than taking 1 or 2 AP courses. The things that impresses colleges are completion of an IB degree. The IB degree is TOUGH… not necessarily the courses but the combination of courses at one time. You are having to be high-level in many different areas. If your school does not offer IB (as the school district we will be moving to and now my next child is having to readjust), you may want to follow suit some of the IB patterns of well-roundedness: 4 years of language, 4 years of math ending in Calculus, 3 years of different sciences (not just 3 years of successive biology - but biology, chemistry, calc level physics), history, arts. That’s what is impressive – not just taking an IB course here or there.</p>

<p>It’s not just the courses in 2 years — it’s also all the preparation to get up to the level of those courses and being able to take “no fluff” really. It’s also being able to complete the exams all within a short period of time. It’s very stressful and upon successful completion, it shows a lot of strength in a student… BUT - you can also mimic the IB program in a lot of other ways.</p>

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<p>I realize that this thread is kind of dead, and that perhaps I’m just reiterating what other people have said, but I feel very invested in the AP vs. IB debate.</p>

<p>There are, of course, advantages to both courseloads, and the majority of my experience is with IB. However, I have been very impressed with IB for several reasons, and not quite as much with AP.</p>

<p>IB is incredibly world-focused, which makes sense because that is what it was created to be. IB forces any student who might be close minded (as every student is) to take a step back and look at the world as a big picture - and as such, I have to admit that it is better for people who have no serious academic weaknesses. At the same time, though, IB can turn a student that excels in one area into a well-rounded person; it is, essentially, a liberal arts curriculum for high school students. </p>

<p>As such, it can manipulate you as a person if you let it do so. This is the key reason I personally find IB superior to AP: even if everyone were to perceive the two as equal, and neither would give you a leg up in admissions, IB teaches you how to think on an amazing level. While IB Math has been torn down and built back up a million times in this thread, the portfolios that it requires, while not necessarily intensive in what they require you know mathematically, foster an incredible degree of creative thought in an area that many (I included) think isn’t intrinsically inductive to creative thought. This creativity in every discipline is really… phenomenally life-altering, and while IB doesn’t show on an admissions form as any better than AP, IB really brings out personal character and teaches you about yourself, which definitely will show. This is of course a personal reflection on IB, and I completely respect the assertion that AP teaches you to think critically as well, but, again, these are my observations of IB.</p>

<p>The testing process of IB I also find preferable, because on an AP test, if you have a bad day, you’re completely screwed, whereas your Internal Assessments can help you significantly. The tests themselves are also preferable to my mind because they seem deeper because they are more commonly essay based, however I can’t really assert this since I am only familiar with one English AP test.</p>

<p>Finally, I’d just like to address the idea that you can’t start IB for the diploma before your junior year. IB specifies that the diploma has to be completed in 2 years, so these could be your sophomore and junior years rather than junior and senior. This just requires a new level of intensity, because you have to accelerate in all subjects, however it is certainly possible; my high school has this system currently in place.</p>

<p>I would recommend IB, obviously, however I bow down to the obvious fact that AP courses are more of a pick and choose affair, and that they correspond more closely with introductory college classes. I would like to point out that corresponding more closely with introductory college classes isn’t necessarily a pro, however, depending on your personal plans of study, and if the AP course actually gives you enough information to continue into the successive course in college. (Meaning that while you may get AP credit for Bio 101, you may not have actually learned the content of the college class well enough to take the next course.)</p>

<p>So. My two cents, for what its worth.</p>

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<p>More colleges give credit to AP than IB… And to get IB credit they MUST be HL. </p>

<p>AP scores of 4-5 give more credit than IB HL Test score of 7… Scores of lower than 7 don’t get credit at many universities</p>

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<p>Well, every college says that they take AP and IB in equally. BUT when you get down to the nitty gritty, IB kids do way more work, BUT a lot of IB kids drop out after freshman/sophomore year b/c it’s too much for them. It’s almost like IB is a challenge that works against some kids, then again, it helps your GPA so much. Even though colleges want your unweighted GPA, with the way our transcripts are organized, they’ll see the weighted. IB is great, but there’s a lot of random assignments. World Lit 1, World Lit 2, Orals (which I just completed 2 days ago; I did great) and that’s just for Junior year English. Theory of Knowledge requires you to do a TOK paper on a prescribed title and a TOK presentation at the end (mine is tomorrow ha). </p>

<pre><code> BUT IB gives you a chance to test out junior year (two tests), and regarding the cost, NO ONE at our school has to pay for their IB test unless they aren’t pulling a B out of the course they’re trying to test in (and our IB director is lenient b/c I know kids who are getting C’s and D’s but don’t have to pay for it). It all goes along with how your school operates it. I’ll admit IB is difficult, but I’m over the hump. Not to mention, the extended essay is over. I did mine in Spanish, so imagine the late nights.

   I don't even need sleep anymore. IB has me on the weirdest schedule. I wake myself up at 1-3 in the morning, and I don't know why I can never sleep. But IB is what you make it. If you're a slacker, that won't change if you're in AP or IB. But from experience, IB opens up a lot of doors (at least at our school). I have the best counselor who will call me up to her office anytime to tell me about a program she wants me to apply for, she's always finding new programs. I recently got accepted to a summer program at Princeton for 8 weeks, no charge or fees at all. I also just applied to go to another summer program she nominated me for that's in October. So Senior year, I'll miss a week or two with the programs. Someone also stated that senior year is hard in IB. Well yes, if you slacked off the other 3, yes, it is. For example: I know a boy (senior) who has a 0 and an 8th hour. That means school starts at 7 am for him and ends at 4 pm. Granted, he's smart, extremely smart, BUT he doesn't apply himself by doing the work. 

     IB kids at my school are extremely competitive esp. when you know who's a threat and who isn't. For the most part, kids test out of something junior year, so senior year I'll only have to take 5 IB tests. I'll be in Spanish 9-10 yet again since I took it as a junior and can't test HL (which is what I don't like, I wasn't gonna switch to SL Spanish just to test). All in all, I'll reiterate it until the sun comes up, IB is what you make it. For the most part, our starting freshman class was maybe 200 IB kids (I'm not sure, but let's take this figure as an example). By sophomore year, this drops down to 120. Junior year hits, and we're at 60. Even after junior year, people will drop down. At our school honors and IB are on 5.0 scales, but there will never be an honors valedictorian b/c ironically, even though they're months behind us in work and don't do hardly anything, they're lazy and don't get good grades. Funny how our school knows that and still puts them on the weighted scales. IB is tough, and I know people in AP. AP kids don't get as much hush-hush work as we do. They don't get the CAS hours, TOK paper, Extended Essay, World Lit papers, Orals, IAs, etc. Not to mention, you have to get at least a 24 on all your IB exams to get the diploma, BUT there are so many restrictions no this. If you fail, you fail. There's no returning and getting your receipt back for those two years, but it's possible to get bonus points toward that magic 24 from your TOK paper and EE (which you have to at least get a D on to even still be diploma). With AP, you can retest, to be honest, you don't even HAVE to take the class to test, do you (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% sure but that's what I read)? With IB, you test once and that's your life in a nutshell. IB reminds me of a monastery for men and women.


        Also, IB is international which is good for kids who want to go to college in another country. IB's a good program, there aren't as many of them as AP schools, but there are a couple here in the state. I don't know where everyone is getting this expensive thing from b/c I have never ever had to pay for anything in IB, our school just let all the juniors test ACT for free this year. I'm taking the writing portion ACT and the SAT in June for free, thanks to my school. It all depends on how the school runs, who runs it, and how long it has been running. 

       I'm pro-IB only in the sense of how it has helped me and how many people's mouths drop, so there could be a perception/bias issue since a lot of students don't do too well in IB. Most kids are scrape-the-surface, average workdoers who are content/excited with a C. Then, there are the intense A-A-A give me an A IB students. I'd say don't join if you're lazy, don't wanna lose sleep, or know you won't do good b/c wtih IB, you NEED a planner, you need good time management, coffee, ambition, determination, etc. BUT I also say, don't join IB if you don't want good opportunities, college recognition, a well-rounded education, a good clean challenge ha. To this day, I always tell people why would I want to be a jack of all trades like IB calls for??? Well, I realize that for the most part, the courses I take will be something I'll be interested in college, but just the fact that I took the hardest courses will look good on paper. In the end, that's what everyone is trying to do.

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<p>hey, do your think a predicted IB score of around 38/39 is considered lacklustre when you apply?</p>

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<p>That’s a pretty good score b/c it’s out of 45</p>

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<p>Is it worth it to go te extra mile and get the IB diploma or are the certificates enough?</p>

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<p>I was previously in the IB program, but at my school the work was not rigorous enough for me. It was set up so you take pre cal freshman year AP calc AB sophmore then IB math HL and Further Learning. </p>

<p>I decided to leave so that I could take AP Calc BC, DE, Lin. Alg., and other advanced math courses, and not do it in a slow two year manner.</p>

<p>I found that, the MYP program teaches to lots of work in classes that aren’t super advanced. I much prefer to do a lot of work in advanced classes.</p>

<p>My school didn’t have a rigorous Physics Course either.</p>

<p>Plus in IB they only let you take 3 or 4 higher levels. I wanted to take 5. One in everything except Spanish, because Freshman year I was put in the wrong spanish. That really angered me because I had two years of experience, and have been to Spain many times.</p>

<p>Overall I think the best thing to do is take the classes you want to take no matter what form they are offered in (obviously the most difficult form, but if they are not offered in that then you can take other ones).</p>

<p>I am taking classes at colleges, AP classes, and whatever I can take. I think IB at different schools is definitely not the same. The one I went to I wasn’t fond of the program although I know overall it is a great program.</p>

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<p>Go for it, ssansari! That’s an amazing score, that’s almost perfect and the IB diploma gets good recognition. I’ve heard that if you’re going to a in-state college, go for the certificate, but out of state, go for the diploma. I’d just say go for the diploma, it shows a lot of hard work and dedication!</p>

<p>@Ramblinman Our program at our school is crazy hard for a lot of kids. It’s a lot of work, but I like the challenge. I know one guy is take 4 HLs but paying to take another SL I believe (I don’t see the point in that). You’re right though. Our school has had the IB program since the 80s or early 90s, and we have the same teachers for the most part (they’ve been there for a long time) so the program is pretty established at our school.</p>

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<p>I don’t think either program is that prestigious, simply because for most cases, ANYONE can get in to the IB program or AP classes. ANYONE. As in, there kids who are “above average” but not particularly special or gifted in both. </p>

<p>In my county, there is this one IB magnet school and about 7 or 8 regular high schools with the IB program. In this county with about 140,000 students (about 11,600 8th graders), about 3,000 of the incoming freshmen (8th graders) are INVITED to through this long application process in which only 100 students are selected to be in the IB program. These students are evaluated on the basis or grades, ECs, awards and teacher recommendations. They then take an entrance exam, and only those who score at a certain percentile or higher are further considered for admission.</p>

<p>Obviously, these kids are pretty darn talented (for the most part) since they are, after all, the 100 kids out of 12,000 in their grade who are admitted (about 1 in 120). And our school system is supposed to be one of the top 5 in the country. These kids are from all over the county, and thus have to commute to their high school. Because these are the more elite students, the IB magnet program at their school is loads harder than the others, since the students are more talented. Thus the teachers have standards that are ridiculously higher than the other IB programs and grade MUCH more harshly, go much more in-depth, and add many more objectives to their curriculum. </p>

<p>In the 7 or 8 other high schools in our county that offer the IB program, however, they are just like any other American high school that offers the IB program. Admission is basically on an enrollment-basis, and almost ANYONE can get in. ANYONE. Even the most mediocre students can somehow get in. The IB kids in the special school obviously resent this, because they are “called” the same program technically, only they are the “IB Magnet Program”, but yet theirs is so much more insanely difficult than your typical IB program. And it’s completely understandable, since these regular IB programs pretty much undermine their program. And because of this, in my county, being in a regular IB program hardly counts as anything, since the kids in them are generally no more talented than the many kids you can find in AP classes at other schools.</p>

<p>So my point is, if we’re gonna argue which one is more prestigious, neither program seems very impressive to me. Don’t get me wrong, there are some insanely smart people in regular IB programs, but because there are few prerequisites for being admitted, there are also some pretty mediocre (people who would more or less correspond to those students taking 2 or 3 APs) and some damn stupid kids in them. But that goes for AP classes as well, as their are some pretty stupid students in the AP classes at my school, as well as some ridiculously, RIDICULOUSLY smart people who have gotten into the schools like MIT, Princeton, etc and have scored really well in competitions such as AIME, etc. Although the regular IB kids are probably generally harder working than AP kids, since sticking to the IB programs requires a level of commitment, all in all I don’t find either program particularly “prestigious.”</p>

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<p>Good job you guys at reviving a 3 year old thread.</p>

<p>But anyways, as a student that attends a AP/IB school, it really doesn’t matter that much. Our AP class is our IB class and vice versa and the percentage of students in IB getting 7 and 8 are fairly the same as the number of students getting 4 and 5 on APs. The class itself prepares you well for both AP and IB regardless of which one you take. So really the only difference is the test, the classes are the similar. So an student taking AP class is not experiencing anything easier than an IB students and they still get the same score. Honestly no colleges really will favor one over the other in giving credits, only international schools will. And after you get into college (in the US that is), no one will care about the IB diploma </p>

<p>

It’s funny how you totally gave a misleading information. Freshmen and Sophomores can’t be IB kids, only Junior and Seniors can. Courses for freshmen and sophomores are “pre-IB”, they are made to prepare you for IB classes. So really they aren’t IB program drop outs because they were never in it. You can only be in it during you junior senior year.</p>

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<p>I don’t know why you don’t get any sleep but majority of the students in my school gets sleep even if they are in the IB program (and no my school is not one of the average AP/IB schools, we hold the record for the most number of National Merit Finalist in my state). So really IB does not take away your sleep that much.</p>

<p>

It might help because for history or English you have like Essay 1, Essay 2, Essay 3 and then a test. And you don’t do them all in one day, it’s done across a span of time so you have time to brush up on some information in between those essays and test. </p>

<p>

This is extremely funny how you contradicted yourself. You say “you can’t start IB for the diploma before your junior year.” and then you say “so these could be your sophomore and junior years” </p>

<p>

I agree, if I had the potential to take 5 AP classes but couldn’t take 5 IB Higher Level classes, I would totally select the AP classes. I wouldn’t want to waste my time in a class that seem boring go me but I had to take it because I couldn’t take HL classes.</p>

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<p>I went to this high school that offered both AP and IB, but moved in the middle of my sophomore year. From my observation, I have to say, I agree with a lot of what cdz512 and dsd23 said.</p>

<p>When it comes to course work, a schedule w/ APs can potentially be more difficult than one with IBs. In my old school, it is true that, as dsd23 mentioned, there are some VERY average students who enroll in IB (who, like dsd23 mentioned, are those who would typically be found in 3 or so AP classes their junior year, some even fewer). However, students taking 6 or more APs are generally seen as being exceptional, whereas you do have these borderline “on-level” students in the IB program.</p>

<p>What my point is, you can’t really “compare” IB with AP, since AP is just a set of classes, whereas IB is a program in which all the classes are “related” as they all contribute to receiving the diploma, and there’s the out-of-class work. The only way we can really compare the two is by difficulty of one’s schedule with IB or AP classes. In this case, it all depends, as say, a junior in 5 or so AP classes could very well have a more difficult set of courses than a student in IB.</p>

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<p>i do AP and im taking , physics, calc, computer science, macro and mico economics… i dont find it very hard and i do minimal studying. computer science is the hardest for me but i think thats partly due to the teacher</p>

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<p>IB is a two-year course, and AP is a one-year course. What is the point of comparing…?</p>

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<p>I find this an interesting topic as I have one d at Harvard who just completed the IB and a second daughter in her first year of the IB in HS. IB is not for everyone - it is demanding and requires a lot of self-discipline. But, it teaches critical thinking in a way that is almost amazing - the theory of knowledge course and the extended essay require academic rigor that develop skills for university. Few IB students fail at university - they have already learned self discipline and how to write. The only thing I find difficult is the marking scheme - everything is out of 7. It is also very standardized so any IB student competing against another IB student is on an equal playing field. IB demands community service as part the program thus it is more holistic.</p>

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<p>My high school is just adding IB next year (when im graduated) so I have nothing to worry about.</p>

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<p>A lot of us don’t even have IB as an option (as was previously mentioned somewhere). Personally, my AP courses are already pretty challenging. Well, perhaps not compared to others, but I do so much other stuff that I usually don’t start homework until 10:00, and a few hours is enough to last me till 1:00 or later. And then I get up at 6:00 the next morning.</p>

<p>Point is, take what you can. IB or AP really doesn’t matter, as long as colleges see that you’ve tried and that you are amazing in your own way. Don’t do something just to please colleges, as I’m sure you know, it doesn’t work.</p>

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<p>I think that the two can’t really be compared. Le’ts say student A’s school offered no IB courses, but he took advantage of most of the AP courses available. But student B’s school offered IB courses which he took advantage of.</p>

<p>You can’t compare the two, because one didn’t have an opportunity to take IB courses, likewise, one didn’t take AP courses.</p>

<p>So they could be treated equally when it comes to course rigor.</p>

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<p>AP is a one year course. However, it covers incredibly specific information that students are expected to memorize in the course of ten months.
About writing long essays? A typical nightly homework assignment in an AP Literature class is to write an exposition of 400-600 words. Sure, that doesn’t seem like a lot, but imagine that every day, including the weekend. 400*6=2400 words. That in a month is even more than the IB extended essay! For the motivated AP student’s course load, this is a huge amount of work.
For example, I am a junior currently taking just two AP classes, the same amount as my IB counterparts, both in history and literature. I write essays for these two classes constantly, on top of examining literary techniques in countless essays and letters, as well as reading books (and then write another essay on those books, as well as analyze, and don’t forget tests) in AP Language Arts. AP United States History, you must memorize countless facts and write Document-Based Question essays, as well as Free Response Essays. A test in my class includes 70-90 multiple choice questions, as well as two essays. The IB tests are the same, if not less rigorous. On top of this load of work, I take the most difficult math class available to me as a junior, advanced analysis, an examination of a variety of calculus and pre-calculus topics in mathematics. I also am the president of two student organizations, and I participate in a youth orchestra outside of school.
Next semester, I will add on another AP course as well as taking part in the newspaper. My APUSH exam will have multiple choice, and two essays on SPECIFIC topics in US History. Also, even the APUSH tries to distance itself from being too American. It is entirely neutral history. We are also constantly reminded of different realities of the US, and we explore societies that have commonly faced discrimination. An IB History of the Americas course in the US is intended to focus on United States based history. It covers other parts of the Americas, but it does not go into such specific detail on discriminated societies of Latin America. It usually approaches Latin American History from a highly European or American perspective, not considering the different Native American that have shaped Latin America, unlike the United States.
Further, the AP Calculus BC course is typically combined with the AP AB course, and an AP BC student is forced to learn AP AB material in three months or so. It is incredibly rigorous, just like the IB HL Math course. And- on top of this many AP students take two or even three AP science courses at once. I am taking AP Chem, AP Bio, and AP Physics next year. So, to insinuate AP is easier than IB ? Please. We get just as much summer work, our exams are just as rigorous since we have to memorize everything immediately, by the minute. No minutes or hours are wasted in APUSH, there isn’t enough time. We have to cover 500 years of history in a matter of ten months, not including holidays. In APLA, we have to be able to automatically identify different styles of language, as well as examining themes in literary works. AP Lit is practically an extension of this, except it greatly incorporates poetry, poetry and poetry. And plays. IB Lit HL does this, but AP Lit does it much more extensively. Students develop a crystal clear understanding of any topic in an AP course, and time-management skills, discipline and motivation is required. Lastly, AP students are expected to know everything in their course (basically) if they want to get a 4 or 5 on their exams. IB students are, and are not. They HAVE TIME. We don’t. We aren’t graded on a whole curriculum basis, we are evaluated on each specific course we take-extensively.
So, please, do your homework?</p>

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<p>Let’s not make it that definite. There are definitely AP courses that are rigorous and those that aren’t. I do agree with the APUSH statement… I did not have fun in that class. I would like to say that I don’t have time at all with my AP homework… none at all…</p>