<p>This is going to sound absolutely ridiculous, stupid and selfish but I recently went to California on a trip with my friend and her family and visited Pomona. I absolutely fell in love with the school. If I do not get into my ED school I absolutely want to apply EDII or RD to Pomona. Something about it just clicked. It was chill, not overly competitive and just seemed like everyone really loved being there.</p>
<p>My mother, however, is vehemently against me going to a Liberal Arts College, their lack of anything outside of Arts and Sciences in terms of majors and lack of any significant research worries her. She doesn't think I will be getting a good education there, and as a scientist claims that no significant research has ever really been published from Pomona. </p>
<p>Any ideas about how to sell her over? Any facts about Pomona that could impress her? My dad would be the one paying and she says she'll allow me to go anywhere I want, but a liberal arts college.</p>
<p>Find an academic program she would respect, and look at the faculty roster. See how many of the successful professors went to liberal arts colleges for their undergrad. That will be evidence of the fine academic foundations that LACs can provide. Get the NSF data on producers of Ph.D.s; LACs look pretty good on that list. Look at where the recipients of NSF doctoral fellowships are coming from–a lot are from LACs.</p>
<p>^I’m totally on board with Xavier and UT and, frankly, a little disappointed…</p>
<p>Maybe if you apply and get some nice merit-based money she might change her tune somewhat. On the other hand, if your mom said you can go anywhere you want, except a liberal arts college, that gives you almost a blank check. Maybe you should look at schools that are not liberal arts schools but have a liberal arts “feel”? There are plenty of kids who would love to have the offer your mom is presenting…</p>
<p>Well, the research coming out of Pomona may be less significant than that coming out of non-liberal-arts colleges, but how much research will you, as an undergrad, be able to participate in? Explain to your mother that a high level of participation in insignificant research is better than NO participation even if significant research is going on around you…</p>
<p>Look folks, the idea that there is a direct correlation between the amount of “significant research” coming out of an institution and the quality of an undergraduate education is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Yes, large universities have large research facilities attached to them. But do you really think undergraduates are allowed to participate at will in anything that goes on therein? Or that professors at those institutions interact in a meaningful way with undergraduates? Not likely.</p>
<p>The benefit of an education at a top tier liberal arts college such as Pomona is that the smaller, more intimate classroom setting means you get to work directly with highly accomplished and engaged professors, week-in and week-out. If you are keen, most will allow you to help them with their research – in some cases in a paid capacity. You can also apply for a host of unique and intellectually satisfying internships or lab research positions over the summer, either at the school or in the surrounding community. Because they know you on a first-name basis, they will help you.</p>
<p>Pomona is one of the best colleges in the US. The facilities are fabulous, the students are the cream of the crop, virtually every prof has a terminal degree in their field, and the student/teacher ratio is something like 8:1. What’s not to like about that?</p>
<p>Each year, Pomona has more Fulbright scholars per capita than any other academic institution, graduates 100% of its pre-med students into med school, and is one of the top feeder schools to the best post graduate institutions and professional schools.</p>
<p>For people who want to be more than just a number, who want to participate in class rather than be lectured to, who want to know their professors personally and not communicate through teaching assistants, there is no undergraduate education that compares to a top-tier liberal arts education.</p>
<p>I’m an idiot, I can’t even understand why the hell I’d name the thread “Ideas to sell my mother”…sleep deprivation? idek.</p>
<p>Thank you enkephalon, that’s actually quite helpful. I never really thought of it like that, but your right—for undergraduate, its unlikely that significant research would really mean much for me anyway.</p>
<p>I know she’s biased about the whole professor thing, because she and my father both graduated from Yale but are teaching at top 50 but certainly not top 20 universities and she’s had virtually no experience with liberal arts colleges. I’m not sure if arguing that the professor’s graduated with great undergraduate degrees would mean much to her.</p>
<p>You state that your father will be paying for college. If such is the case, shouldn’t you discuss this with him? He may not undervalue a great LAC like Pomona. Mom will just have to come to terms with your choice.</p>
<p>^I’ll outbid you by $1.
Is your mother a good cook?</p>
<p>Yes, Pomona is a LAC, but it’s pretty unique that there are 4 other LACs in close proximity. You could make the argument that all 5 colleges make up a hypothetical “Claremont University”. Just tell her about all the strong points of Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd, etc. (You can get national rankings) Explaining how you can take classes at a top 5 engineering program and a top 20 economics program. I pulled the rankings out of thin air, but you get the general idea.</p>
<p>What did you mean by this comment: “I’m not sure if arguing that the professor’s graduated with great undergraduate degrees would mean much to her.”</p>
<p>If you go on Pomona’s website under Academics > Faculty> Faculty Profiles, you can see that virtually every one of the profs has a terminal degree in their specialty. That is to say they have reached the highest level of academic accomplishment, usually a PhD.</p>
<p>You will also see that most of them received these post grad credentials from top-tier and Ivy league schools such as Columbia, Oxford, Yale, Cambridge, Duke, Harvard, Princeton, U of Chicago, and so on. But they did not necessarily go to those institutions from the start – quite a few attended liberal arts colleges like Pomona, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc.</p>
<p>In short, it’s not necessary, and depending on your personality, not even desirable to attend a large and impersonal institution for your undergrad years. As I said before, those hoping for a more intimate and engaging educational experience during the crucial years in which they are deciding their futures will not be disappointed with what they find at LACs like Pomona College.</p>
<p>Have her call career services and ask where Pomona grads end up. You really can’t do any better- I don’t know anyone who isn’t getting what they want.</p>
<p>1 California Institute of Technology 27.2
2 Harvey Mudd College 18.7
3 Reed College 13.5
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 9.3
5 University of Chicago 7.6
6 Harvard University 7.5
7 Pomona College 6.7
8 St Olaf College 6.5
9 Rice University 6.1
10 Princeton University 5.9
11 Grinnell College 5.9
12 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 5.4
13 Swarthmore College 4.4
14 Bryn Mawr College 4.2
15 Brown University 4.1
16 Yale University 3.9
17 Carleton College 3.7
18 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 3.7
19 St John’s College (both campus) 3.7
20 Haverford College 3.6
21 Concordia Teachers College 3.4
22 Williams College 3.3
23 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 3.3
24 Albertson College 3.2
25 Knox College 3.2
26 Whitman College 3.1
27 Kalamazoo College 3.1
28 Carnegie Mellon University 3.1
29 Stevens Institute of Technology 3.0
30 Hendrix College 2.9
31 Stanford University 2.9
32 Amherst College 2.9
33 College of Wooster 2.9
34 Oberlin College 2.7
35 Agnes Scott College 2.6
36 Cooper Union 2.6</p>
<p>Graduate/Professional School Offers Accepted—Class of 2008
Name withheld Biology Cambridge University Biological Sciences Masters
Name withheld Biology University of Pennsylvania Veterinary Medicine Medical Degree
Name withheld Biology & History University of Washington Biological Oceanography Doctorate
Name withheld Chemistry University of Ghana, School of Public Health Public Health Masters
Name withheld Chemistry University of Texas Southwestern Medical School M.D./M.P.H. Medical Degree
Name withheld Chemistry Caltech Chemistry Doctorate
Name withheld Chemistry Stanford University Chemistry Doctorate
Name withheld Chemistry Mount Sinai School of Medicine Medicine Medical Degree
Name withheld Chemistry UCLA MSTP MD/PhD Medical Degree
Name withheld Chemistry UCSD Scripps Institution of Oceanography Chemical Oceanography Doctorate
Name withheld Classics University of Miami School of Law Law Degree
Name withheld Computer Science & Media Studies University of Texas at Austin Computer Science Doctorate
Name withheld Economics Sotheby’s Institute of Art Contemporary Art Masters
Name withheld English King’s College London Early Modern Literature; Text and Transmission Doctorate
Name withheld Classics University of Iowa Law Law DegreeName withheld History UCLA Law Law Degree
Name withheld International Relations Notre Dame Education Masters
Name withheld International Relations University of Oslo Human Rights Studies Masters
Name withheld Japanese University of Hawaii Medicine Medical Degree
Name withheld Linguistics and Cognitive Science Stanford University Linguistics Doctorate
Name withheld Linguistics and Cognitive Science & Mathematics Harvard University Linguistics Doctorate
Name withheld Mathematics Cambridge, Caltech Mathematics Other
Name withheld Mathematics Stanford Statistics Doctorate
Name withheld Mathematics La Trobe University Education Masters
Name withheld Mathematics Stanford University Statistics Doctorate
Name withheld Mathematics UC Berkeley Mathematics PhD Doctorate
Name withheld Mathematics & Chemistry UC Berkeley Chemistry Doctorate
Name withheld Media Studies USC Peter Stark Program for Motion Picture Producing Masters
Name withheld Media Studies University of Texas Advertising Masters
Name withheld Molecular Biology UC Berkeley Biophysics Doctorate
Name withheld Molecular Biology Stanford University Medicine/Cancer Biology Medical Degree
Name withheld Molecular Biology MIT Biology Other
Name withheld Molecular Biology UC San Diego Medicine
Name withheld Molecular Biology & French UC Berkeley Molecular and Cell Biology Doctorate
Name withheld Music Yale University Music Theory, Ph.D. Doctorate
Name withheld Neuroscience Cambridge University Biology Masters
Name withheld Neuroscience Unknown Medical Degree
Name withheld Neuroscience UCLA School of Dentistry Dentistry Medical Degree
Name withheld Neuroscience & Linguistics and Cognitive Science UCLA Psychology Doctorate
Name withheld Neuroscience & Psychology Claremont Graduate University Teacher Education Internship program Masters
Name withheld Neuroscience &Spanish Unknown
Name withheld Philosophy Yale Law School Law Law Degree
Name withheld Philosophy, Politics & Economics Columbia University Law Law Degree
Name withheld Philosophy, Politics & Economics UC Berkeley School of Law Law Law Degree
Name withheld Philosophy, Politics & Economics Lewis and Clark Law School Law Law Degree
Name withheld Philosophy, Politics & Economics Cornell Law School Law Law Degree
Name withheld Physics Yale Astronomy
Name withheld Physics & Mathematics Harvard University Applied Physics Doctorate
Name withheld Politics Columbia University Creative Writing -Fiction Masters
Name withheld Physics & Mathematics Stanford University Education Masters</p>
<p>Graduate/Professional School Offers Not Yet Accepted—Class of 2008
Name Major School Program Degree
Name withheld Politics Pepperdine University Law Law Degree
Name withheld Politics NYU School of Law Law Law Degree
Name withheld Psychology University of Texas at Austin School Psychology in the Education Department Doctorate
Name withheld Psychology Howard University Educational Psychology Doctorate
Name withheld Religious Studies Yale Law Law Degree
Name withheld Russian & Eastern European Studies University of Arizona Law Law Degree
Name withheld Sociology NYU School of Law Law Law Degree
Name withheld Sociology & History UCLA Sociology Doctorate</p>
<p>on a personal level, i seriously do not think your mother has the right to hinder you from choosing to appy where you want to go for college. yes she is your mother who has taken care of you, but she should keep in mind that it is YOU who will attend the college, not her. so what if she loathes LAC? if you love it, then i say go for it. have faith! this is a serious matter that may as well shape how the rest of your life is going to unfold. </p>
<p>furthermore, pomona is one of the most fine educational institutes in the nation. unless you are definitely set on becoming a natural science major that would like to have the opportunities for in depth scientific research, i don’t see why you should take into consideration about the whole “pomona sucks because no significant research takes place there.” school isn’t judged by the number of research papers it creates… </p>
<p>besides that, adding to what others have said, pomona also has great connections within the metropolitan Los Angeles region, so that automatically puts you in a position with a myriad of different opportunities in front of you.</p>
