<p>I'm currently a freshman at Duke and have a 3.4 gpa. I definitely intend to pull that up to as close to a 4.0 as possible over the next couple of years. I plan on getting a B.S. in Economics and a A.B. in Computer Science. Suppose I graduate with a 3.8 gpa and have stellar extra-curriculars and do everything else possible, but considering how competition is and will continue to be in the ibanking world, I don't get a job with a BB firm. What kind of career options would I have in corporate business? What areas of business would I have sure chance of being employed in? Or will I be permanently unemployed or maybe even, I don't know, end up working at McDonald's? lol. Man, I've read so many threads on jobs in ibanking and it looks almost impossible, especially in BB firms. Is it significantly easier to get a job with Lehman Bros., Bank of America, Bear Sterns or maybe even smaller ibanking boutiques?
Hmmm...and I also wonder about growth and job stability in ibanking/consulting. I know as an analyst you're usually limited to a 2 or 3 year contract, but do ibanks frequently over-hire and downsize? After reading this article, <a href="http://news.efinancialcareers.com/A_DAY_IN_THE_LIFE_ITEM/newsItemId-3837%5B/url%5D">http://news.efinancialcareers.com/A_DAY_IN_THE_LIFE_ITEM/newsItemId-3837</a>, I was definitely given an insecure perspective on career growth in ibanking.</p>
<p>Whatever advice or experience you can offer is highly appreciated and I thank you in advance.</p>
<p>If you have a degree in computer science, you can obviously get a job as a developer. Don't believe all the hype you hear about all the computer jobs being offshored. Sure, some offshoring is happening, but the fact remains that you are still going to be more employable than a guy with a liberal arts degree. Successful computer companies like Microsoft and Google continue to ramp up their hiring in the US. </p>
<p>You can also try to get a 'regular' corporate job in sales, marketing, business development, finance, and every other business function. Take sales for instance. Most business salesmen do not come from elite schools like Duke. In fact, most come from regular no-name schools.</p>
<p>hmm...interesting. How hard is it to get an entry-level job in commercial banking or consulting? Also I read an article on the interview process for recruiting analysts. The first round consists of very general and abstract questions, yet requiring specific and detailed answers in regards to leadership experience and personal strengths/weaknesses/goals, etc. The second round is supposed to test how one behaves under pressure. Is it true that interviewers give brain teasers during the second round? For instance, "A snail is dropped in a bucket on a Monday afternoon (12PM). The height of the bucket is 12 inches. The snail climbs up 3 inches during the day, and falls two inches during the night. How many days later will the snail have climbed out of the bucket and on what day?". Or like "If the entire population of china was to extend it's arms and chain with one another, how many times would this chain encircle the earth?" I can understand asking market and investment questions, but brain teasers should not prove ability in finance.</p>
<p>Truth be told: Isn't it unlikely for a noncaucasian person to land an opportunity in ibanking, especially in the BB's? It seems like the minorities who work for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and the rest, are usually in the equity research departments, and if they are lucky enough to land an ib job, that they will most likely never be able to become associates. (White people don't want to work under non-whites)</p>
<p>I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems like there is still a lot of cloaked discrimination against minorities.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, you are not wrong. I don't have the cite, but there have been studies done on career advancement and subjective standards. For example, in the big national law firms, what you look like is very important for making partner. THere were books out in the 80's like Dress for Success which focused on appearance. Of course, you can't change your race no matter how thin you are or how you dress.</p>
<p>Not currently. I know there are Indians who are MDs at different trading desks at BBs. I also happen to know there are minorities as MDs in ibanking as well. Heck, the CEO of Merrill is black. The head of markets and investment banking at Merrill is an Asian guy. Take a look at the people in the Blackstone group, quite a few Indians and Asians in the top SMD and MD slots. Considering the fact that only 4-5% of the US is Asian, it is quite well represented at the top. I know a few asians and indians (just by looking at their name) were listed to have made in the top 100 compensated list. </p>
<p>The race factor in banking is less than other fields. It is a much more performance driven environment. When you are a top producer for a firm, the last thing they want to do is kick you out for your color.</p>
<p>Btw> Books on dressing for success and etiquette for business professionals still are published today. Its important to cater to clients in a professional manner.</p>
<p>Interesting..hmm...so to be successful in banking as a minority (asian, black, w/e), you'd probably have to be superperformer? Outperforming even the average pace of a banker at a BB firm?</p>
<p>To be successful at such a competitive field as finance you HAVE to be a superperformer regardless of your color. View it this way, how hard is it to get into Harvard? I would say its pretty damn difficult. Now take that difficulty to another level and you get a sense of the competition you will be going up against. People dont have time nor the resources to be discriminative in their policies. </p>
<p>It is widely quoted that 95% of market participants in trading fail. When a person of color is in the 5% of the people who are successful you dont go against them. Management pampers them (with money naturally). Management can't afford to be discriminatory in their policies.</p>
<p>I would say if you are male then you color doesnt matter. I would worry more about being female than being black/hispanic/asian (btw I am of color myself). Females (regardless of their race) have it VERY hard on Wall Street. Its obvious by looking at the number of women at the top. However, slowly that barrier too is being broken thankfully.</p>
<p>having a 3.8+ while going for a dual degree at Duke will get you a banking job without trouble. I know about 50+ people at wharton in this year's senior class who have GPAs of 2.7-2.9 and are still getting 70-80k salary offers from a range of banks...</p>
<p>"Truth be told: Isn't it unlikely for a noncaucasian person to land an opportunity in ibanking, especially in the BB's? It seems like the minorities who work for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and the rest, are usually in the equity research departments, and if they are lucky enough to land an ib job, that they will most likely never be able to become associates. (White people don't want to work under non-whites)"</p>
<p>I don't know how true this is, but my cousin graduated from UMich AA and got a job at Morgan Stanley (ibanking division) while he got his MBA from Columbia part-time..he's Indian. When he first came to NYC he lived in an apartment w/ 3 other Indians...all working for ibanking firms. He recently left Morgan Stanley because he got a better offer at a smaller firm in CT. I don't know if what you said above is the same case for Indians as URM's. But, I know of a handful of Indians in BB firms.</p>
<p>Ah ok, that's definitely encouraging. Ok, this is going a bit off tangent, but suppose I was to go to medical school and get an M.D. Would this give me a leg up in working for a private equity or hedge funds firm, like Blackstone or Thomas H. Lee? Maybe because I'd have enough expertise to specialize in managing investments/funds with health insurance companies or clinics/hospitals?</p>
<p>I'm not claiming to be an expert in Ibanking, but why would they choose an M.D. over, say an MBA in finance, to manage health insurance funds...M.D.'s train to work on the human body, not how to manage money/investments, am I wrong? I would say that an MBA would probably do you better than an MD unless you were planning to be a physician instead of an Ibanker... I could be wrong, like I said, I'm no expert on it.</p>
<p>Actually for PE firms and HFs specializing in healthcare related areas a MD or a PhD in a science related field would be a huge edge. When investing in healthcare devices company who would you think knew the products better a BA from Wharton or a MD? I would strongly recommend at least going through some of the websites of PE or VC funds before commenting. Here are a few:</p>
<p>You have to be know the mechanics of a business before investing in it. It is one of the fundamental criteria for success in the investment world.</p>
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You have to be know the mechanics of a business before investing in it.
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<p>Agree whole heartedly. However, there are more than one set of mechanics in a business that need to be known...so training/understanding of business itself as well as a science would probably be prime for the companies you listed.</p>
<p>Naturally the best traning would be to have a knowledge of the field as well as business. However, you must agree its easier to learn the ins and outs of business than to understand the nitty gritty of the different biological aspects a specialized healthcare device company may be involved in.</p>
<p>Well...being an MD would mean you're fairly old...and firms like to hire youngens straight from graduate school and ugrad. My friend's dad who was an exec got "asked to retire" or however they put it because he reached a certain age. He was payed $43 mil to "retire". However, mahras knows a lot more so I guess having an MD / PHD can work for certain firms, but I think for most firms being younger is most desirable.</p>
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having a 3.8+ while going for a dual degree at Duke will get you a banking job without trouble.
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<p>Uh, I think you go too far. I don't think there are any academic qualifications you can get that will get you a banking job "without trouble". Top academic qualifications can land you an interview, but it's up to you to impress them in ther interview. </p>
<p>As a case in point, I know a superbrilliant guy from MIT who completed 2 bachelor's degrees - one in engineering, one from the Sloan School of Management - with a near perfect GPA. He didn't get a single banking offer. True, he got a lot of banking interviews. But no offers. He told me that he knows other students at MIT who dualed in other degree combinations (i.e. econ + Sloan, engineering + econ, etc.) with top grades and who also didn't get any banking offers. </p>
<p>To be fair, I happen to also know some people at MIT with quite mediocre grades who happened to get bulge-bracket offers. That includes one guy who had even been required to withdraw from MIT for a whole year due to bad grades and then had to petition to be reinstated. He barely graduated. Yet he was still able to get a bulge-bracket analyst position upon graduation.</p>
<p>The point is, no matter how impressive your academic background is, nobody can presume that they are guaranteed a banking offer.</p>
<p>The grades get you the interview...but it doesn't secure an offer. Its how will you can impress your interviewer and your work experience that can get you in...and even then you can't be so sure. Your best bet is to get an internship during college so you build connections by graduation time where getting an offer from the same company is not as hard.</p>