<p>Brown is my number one choice (I’m a rising senior) but I’m also interested in schools such as Vassar and Dartmouth. I honestly don’t know what my chances of getting in to Brown are. I know it’s not a sure bet for anyone.
So, currently all the schools I’m looking at are tough to get into and I need some ideas for safety schools (or schools that are just a bit easier to get into than Brown.) I really love Brown’s open curriculum so I need schools that have similar academic freedom and I’d like a similar atmosphere as Brown’s.
Any suggestions?</p>
<p>Wesleyen, Oberlin, U of Michigan (its really big, unlike Brown, but its got a bit of Brown atmosphere for such a big school. It was my safety). Really most LACs are like Brown.</p>
<p>Vassar, Bates and the New College of Florida may be worth considering as may Sarah Lawrence</p>
<p>Johns Hopkins- it's not nearly as conservative as people say it is and it has an open curriculum like Brown.</p>
<p>Respectfully, I consider Brown and Hopkins in terms of academic culture to be opposites. Hopkins was founded as a graduate school and Brown has kept its' primary focus on the university college</p>
<p>that does not make them opposities in terms of academic culture. JHU has some majors that are completely geared toward undergrads, like writing seminars. The reasons the colleges were founded has little weight on their present day academic culture. JHU's focus on undergraduates has greatly increased, evidenced by the new undergraduate residential buildings the university is constructing. JHU and Brown are incredibly similar in terms of pure academics - especially in regard to the open curriculum.</p>
<p>You may think so. However, the administration of John Hopkins disagrees. I'm quoting a recent JHU alum magazine:</p>
<p>those in the 2002 freshman class at Hopkins, only 49.4 percent indicated that they expected to have a satisfactory student experience, versus a normative group at peer institutions of 67 percent, according to the 2002 Cooperative Institutional Research Program Freshman Survey, cited by William Conley, dean of enrollment and academic services at Hopkins. Says Conley, "If we have a brand, it's as an intensely rigorous academic experience suited for the self-directed, self-motivated. If you take that and translate it behaviorally, what kind of kids would it attract? It would in all likelihood attract kids who can suffer for what they'll get out of it. They're willing, for the single-mindedness of their intent, to live a less fulfilling existence."</p>
<p>That less fulfilling existence may start early for J., especially if she's in certain disciplines. CUE's report said, "Unfortunately, the curriculum of many first-year Hopkins students reflects the need to make early progress on pre-medical or engineering requirements, and there is precious little opportunity to experience seminar-style learning." For J., that could mean finding herself shot straight into large lecture classes, a heavy workload of difficult, highly technical material, and little faculty contact aside from graduate teaching assistants. The transition from high school, where knowledge is conveyed, to Hopkins, where knowledge is created, may be abrupt and disorienting.</p>
<p>CUE agreed, recommending a "leavening of the academic mix" by enrolling more students who want to be humanities majors, even if they're planning on medical school later. Says Conley, "If there were one word that I'd use to describe our goal [in admissions], it would be 'balance.' If we're going to have 35 percent premeds, let's have a better balance of those who say they'll be classics majors." </p>
<p>Leslie says of students, "They have a genuine affection for the institution. They're glad to be here, they think they're getting an excellent education. But they don't think they have full and balanced lives. So there's a feeling of isolation from each other, from the faculty, from the community. They don't feel that they've created the kind of bond you find at other places, where you're, you know, Princeton '08 for the rest of your life."</p>
<p>Many undergraduates also believe that too many faculty couldn't care less about this lack of personal contact. The CUE report states, "One of the most disturbing findings by the Commission is the extent to which many students perceive that no one cares." Cunico says, "I think a lot of students feel forsaken by the faculty. There isn't a vested interest on the part of faculty to talk to students. And I think a lot of times the faculty feel that students don't care, either. You know, 'I posted office hours and no one came.' I don't think it's so much that students don't care as that they're just swamped with work. An extra hour with a faculty member will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I can't afford that sometimes."</p>
<p>Ball points out that faculty at a research university face daunting pressures. They are expected to excel as teachers without compromising research. "There are stresses," he says. "I'll give you an example. I sit on various grant review committees. [On one of them] there's 26 scientists in my field, which is biological bases of behavior. Everyone is PhD level. Three of us are at undergraduate institutions. Everyone else is at a medical school, research institute, drug companies, this kind of stuff. When they wake up in the morning, they think about their research. They go to bed at night and think about their research. That's all they do. Now I compete with these people. I may have a problem in my lab, but I also have a class to teach, and I have a kid in my office who doesn't know what to do with his life. This is how you're torn. The bar for research excellence definitely has been rising, so the expectations [for] faculty have gone up. Now we're saying the expectations on teaching have to go up, too!" He notes that most of Hopkins' biomedical engineering faculty have primary faculty appointments at the School of Medicine, which limits their available teaching time: they take substantial salary from grants, which by contract require them to devote a certain percentage of their time to the grant-funded research.</p>
<p>I concede that this report is more about the dissatisfaction rather than an overall rating. However, everything I've seen suggests a much more research and graduate school focus.</p>
<p>To echo what others have said: Wesleyan (not a safety though), Vassar (I know you're already interested, but I wanted to emphasize that I think it's very similar to Brown), Oberlin, Connecticut College, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore.</p>
<p>the administration is commenting on a completely different subject, though arguable somewhat related...I guess. The article focuses on the life of undergrads in a science related field. Nonetheless, in regards to the undergrads the article addresses, they still have an open curriculum. It seems to me that there are really 2 points being argued here: 1- the academic atmosphere at JHU and Brown are very different from eachother and 2 - the expectation of satisfaction that undergrads focused in a science related field at JHU is indicative of an academic atmosphere. Well...to speak qualitatively, I've been to both institutions. I mainly hung out with liberal arts majors at JHU and they were mostly very laid back and very not stressed. As in going to see a prof for an hour would not be the "straw to break the camel's back" to quote from the article, which is like I have said, biased towards science related undergrads. So as far as colleges go in general, JHU and Brown have many similarities in academic atmosphere, granted, the similarities are much more distinct in regards to liberal arts majors at JHU and the general Brown undergrad population. Though..I hear PLME students at Brown can sometimes have the same academic pressures and stress as say a BME undergrad at JHU. Secondly, dude...this article quotes a survey from 2002. Even in the last 3 years JHU has made significant strides in attracting humanities majors - which like I have said, many of the humanities majors at JHU are very similar to the majors at Brown in academic vigor and the academic atmosphere that develops from such majors. Moreover, JHU is a very tough school with a reputation for an extremely difficult science program. The survery is essentially comparing crazy TI-89 carrying pencil pushers to ganja hippies at Cal and Sarah Lawrence. And even if you do argue that the survey is legit in its comparison of JHU to the general population of all colleges, who is to say that the satisfaction undergrads expect - who by the way are not yet even attending JHU but rather simply enrolled to attend JHU - indicates any form of academic atmosphere. Your research and graduate school focus argument is limited to the evidence supplied by the article and survey, which are both biased towards science majors, not to mention that the evidence is arguably non-topical.</p>
<p>PLMEs have less pressure and stress, they're already in med school, only need one semester of orgo, and don't have to take the MCAT! Who could ask for more?</p>
<p>"Though..I hear PLME students at Brown can sometimes have the same academic pressures and stress as say a BME undergrad at JHU. "</p>
<p>SOMETIMES... don't argue absolutes. That's just annoying. and don't pretend like I did so that you can.</p>
<p>I wasn't, no worries. But am good friends with 10 PLMEs off the top of my head, so I can make a pretty educated guess. Sorry if I annoyed you.</p>
<p>So far I've provided the Hopkins' administration [as of 2002] take on it which supports my premise. While you have provided little in the way of verified fact and a great deal in the way of impressions based on 'hanging out'. Do you have any evidence supporting the claim that JHU has made strides in the humanities recruitment? I do know that they give better aid packages to humanities majors so it is quite possible. </p>
<p>But, you contradict yourself when you say Brown is so like JHU and then in the next breath you say: The survery is essentially comparing crazy TI-89 carrying pencil pushers to ganja hippies at Sarah Lawrence. You sound dangerously close to saying that science majors have it harder than liberal arts majors. The liberal arts majors have more lattitude but they are not 'easier'.</p>
<p>You can argue with the article all you want. But, so far, I've quoted the Hopkins administration [the least likely people to support my point] as agreeing. So, just how is an article about satisfaction and stress irrelevant to academic atmosphere?</p>
<p>I made a clear distinction between humanities majors and science majors at JHU. I did note or at the very least imply that science majors are more common than humanities majors at JHU. Thus, the proportion of pencil pushers at JHU is far greater than the proportion in the general college population. So I disagree that I contradict myself. And I would argue that science majors have a harder curriculum at JHU than liberal arts majors. I don't see how that hurts my argument though, as we are comparing the general academic atmosphere...and since we are indeed comparing the general academic atmosphere...you must address the bias towards science majors in the article you posted. In addition to the bias, the irrelevance is evidenced by the fact that the subjects surveyed have not yet actually attended Hopkins.</p>