If I Say No To College

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello everybody, as you can probably tell this is my first post. I've been lurking for some time, and I have finally emerged to bounce an idea off of the many intelligent parents that use this forum.</p>

<p>Before we reach the actual idea (Even though I'm sure that some of you have surmised what it may be due to the title, but bear with me.), I'm going to share some background information so that you can see where I'm coming from.</p>

<p>I'm graduating from high school this year like many others across the nation. I have filled out a few applications and sent them off, and in the coming weeks I expect to send out a few more. Over the past few years, I have taken all the honors and AP courses that I could, and simply performed in a rather mediocre manner while in them. I've had a bit of a rocky ride through high school. When I started out I got decent grades, I finished Freshman year with a 3.7. Then, due to my own lack of self-discipline I received a 2.6 Sophomore year. Junior year I rebounded a little with a 3.1. The issue, it seemed, was that I had managed to develop very bad habits when it came to school work. Things simply wouldn't get done, and time and opportunities would slip through my fingers due to my immaturity. </p>

<p>During Junior year I experienced my first real failure. Of course I had failed in the past, my grades stand as a testament to that, but I brushed those failures off as the result of my lack of effort. I thought, "I could've succeeded if I wanted to, but I did not want those successes, I was focused on other things. And so, it is only logical that I would fail." This placed my failure within terms that I could accept. After all, I assumed that it no failure could be that great if it was intended, and if it could have been avoided. But, I would soon find failure at the hands of my terrible habits. </p>

<p>I applied to TASP. I had read about it on this site as well as other places, and it sounded extraordinary. The deadline for the application drew near, and I read more and more about the program. I became more and more engrossed in what I surmised to be the perfect educational experience, the release from the tedium of high school that I had been looking for. And somehow, despite all of my fervor for the program, it ended being the week before the application was due. Midterms were in full force, and I panicked. It was if the deadline had sneaked up on me while I was enamored with learning more about the program to which it belonged. Even in this mode of seeming crisis, however, I found myself stalled. I justified putting off the application a little longer. I had to study for Midterms. I had just taken a Midterm. I was tired. I had to eat dinner. I had to sleep. I had to read. I had to hang out with friends. I had to play video games. I had to, I had to, I had to. </p>

<p>The TASP essays were ignored until two days before the postal deadline. With a rush of adrenaline I pumped out the six necessary essays. I was relieved, it was the day that the application was due, but the essays were rough, and needed much editing. So I labored for the rest of the day to finish editing those essays. I turned in the application to the post office across the street three minutes before it closed.</p>

<p>Time went on, I got an interview for TASP. And months later I found out that I was one of five wait listed guys for the program. I waited desperately for the next few months, hoping that some natural disaster would prevent one of the TASPers from attending and that I would be called up to fill their place. I held onto this hope until the day the program started. The next day I went to work, and I spent the rest of the summer bagging groceries and being irresponsible with my friends. </p>

<p>What hurt me about TASP was that I had wanted to go, I had wanted to succeed, and I had wanted to try on that application. I could not present myself with the excuse that I hadn't wanted that success. There was no ignoring that my failure was my own. It could not be shrugged off or placed to the side due to any number of conditionals. No. It had to sit front and center, and remind me that my immaturity, my lack of self-discipline, and my lack of self-motivation had caught up with me at last.</p>

<p>Up until that point I had managed to get by with minimal effort, and minimal acceptance of responsibility for my failure. I would coast in my classes, not turn in any homework, and then get an 'A' on the test and Midterm. I would win the State Debate Tournament by writing my speeches the night before. I would win the District Tournament by forgetting to bring my speeches and writing new one's on the car ride down. I was accustomed to success with little effort, and failure with little responsibility.</p>

<p>But my experience with TASP changed that. I knew that I had screwed up, and that I was a screw up. I knew that if I had invested anything at all into my classes in high school, I could've done just as well as my friends in the top 10%. They weren't intrinsically smarter or better than me, but they had their stuff together. They could sit down and do the work. I couldn't, or wouldn't, I don't know.</p>

<p>At the end of Junior year I received my SAT score: 2010. It was pretty good, but it probably would have been better if I had paid attention during the last three years of math classes. Or if I had done the homework related to grammar and sentence structure. If I had analyzed all of the articles for English the year before. But I don't know that, and I will never know that. Which is what irritates me when I look back: I'll never know what could've been if I had done what I was supposed to, instead of sleeping through life.</p>

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<p>Now that the absurdly long lead up to this idea is done (I should probably edit it, but it was an emotional flowing piece so I think that I'll leave it as it is to preserve some of its raw nature.) here's my actual idea: Say no to college next year.</p>

<p>I don't want to have the same thing to happen in college that happened to me during high school. I don't think that I have the maturity necessary to do as well as I want to in college. While I certainly know what I have done wrong, there is still a great disparity between the amends that I have made and those that I still have to make. Old habits die hard, and my lazy, undisciplined self is going to take a considerable amount of training in order to get into shape for the rigors of college.</p>

<p>See, I don't think that I'm ready for college. I think that I'll get there and then fail. Now don't get me wrong, I'm extraordinarily optimistic, which is why I'm asking this question here. I want to believe that when I get to college everything will work out, and that I'll be able to handle the workload, the social life, and the debt. I really do want to believe that, but there's this nagging part of me that says that fairy tales don't happen in real life. That despite all of my wishing and hoping, I'll snap under the pressure and my dreams will be crushed by the harsh nature of reality.</p>

<p>I think about that, and I worry that I'm right. I worry that once again I'll end up disappointing myself and others through my own ineptitude. Except this time, it'll be a disappointment that could cost tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more if we take away future earnings and opportunities missed.</p>

<p>I was already wary about the cost of college before. Taking on forty, fifty grand in debt simply seems unwise to me. And because I'm in no shape to receive any sort of real merit aid, or get into the schools that would meet all my need with grants, I've always been aware that I'm pretty screwed in terms of finances and college.</p>

<p>So back to the idea: Say no to college. I know what you're thinking, but it's only a temporary 'no'. In fact, this idea is more akin to a gap year than anything else. What I want to do is go to a good community college for the next two years, and then transfer to a college or university. Now, I've done some research, and there are definitely stellar community colleges out there that have transfer agreements with many great schools. On top of that I'll probably save money, as I'll still be eligible for need based aid when I transfer. And then there's always the upside that if I do really well, I could probably get into a better college or university than I am currently able.</p>

<p>I know that seems like a lot of conditional terms in relation to my future, which is why I want a reality check. Is this crazy? Am I being reasonable here? I just want to be careful, because I don't know anyone who's taking a gap year, or two. </p>

<p>My theory behind this is that it gives me the opportunity to mature out in the 'real world' and away from the safety nets of home, high school, and college. I'll be able to work on my self-discipline and other skills while accumulating college credit, and gaining experience on how to live and what not.</p>

<p>What I would like to know from you guys, outside of general opinions, is if the trade off is worth it. I mean, I can definitely get into a college next year, it won't be the best college ever, but it'll be a college. Is the college experience so great that I shouldn't miss a year or two of it? Should I just go to college and then try the whole 'sink or swim' thing there? Is this a middle of the road option? Are you only saying that it's a good idea because you think that I'm doomed for a life of mediocrity?</p>

<p>I'm really going out on a limb here and I could use some help.</p>

<hr>

<p>TL;DR Version:</p>

<p>-I lack self-discipline
-Is going to CC for two years a good idea?</p>

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<p>Community colleges actually have less of a support network for students. From what I’ve seen tutoring, the students rarely interact with eachother outside of classrooms or previously (from high school) established social networks.</p>

<p>I suggest you take a year off working or traveling (or something) or you go to a university.</p>

3

<p>Get accpted to the college you want now – then apply for the gap year. Many schools are fine with a Gap Year. Knowing you have a place at a school after the gap year will make it MUCH more likely that you will actually attend college after your year of maturation.</p>

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<p>I went to CC, got professional job in my field after graduation and many subsequent jobs that paid for the rest of my education all the way thru MBA. Worked perfectly for me. I have enjoyed working full time ( I do love my job), going to school, taking care of family, sending my S. to college while still going to school myself, urging my H. to do the same, which he did and got his MBA also. For one year, all three of us were going to college, both me and H. working full time paying tuition only for our son. It was fun! Neither me or H. need MBA for our jobs. We got them because our employers paid!</p>

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<p>First of all, kudos to you for being mature enough to look back on your journey and see that there is room for self improvement…there’s tons of middle aged people who haven’t figured that out yet :wink: </p>

<p>With the exception of your sophomore year GPA, your grades seem to be OK (maybe not here on CC, but it’s a high flying bunch) and your SAT can be improved while you also take the ACT to see if you do better on that. How are your grades this year? Are they trending up?</p>

<p>Regarding CC vs. gap year: since you are concerned about finances, just realize that attending CC for 2 years will take you out of the running for any entering Freshman scholarships at most schools. You may be better financially to take a gap year and mature and develop some good self discipline habits.</p>

<p>FWIW, I’ve noticed that the boys in my DDs senior class are much less organized and serious about the college search and process than the girls are. It makes the GCs crazy, as the students coming in for transcripts the day before the deadline are almost exclusively male. There’s one boy in particular that I’m worried about because I think when he gets out of the HS bubble next year, he’s going to crash & burn big time. Just saying, I don’t think you’re alone, but you are self aware enough to recognize that you need to address some issues. </p>

<p>There’s a huge difference between “saying no to college” and saying “wait for a year.” I’d say research some gap year options and then take some time to think. Good luck!</p>

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<p>You seem to have a classic case of “fear of failure” which generally turns into a self-fufilling prophecy. Procrastination is one of the symptoms and should not be confused with a solution to the problem. Finding other distractions is another one of these symptoms that should not be confused with a solution.</p>

<p>You need to get to the root of the issue. Counseling is always an option. </p>

<p>My gut feeling as to what you need to do (once you identify the source of your fear) is to set out a goal and a specific plan to get to it (prepare for a career in X field by getting Y degree in 4 years at Z school). To further this strategy, you will want to plan out (based upon current course catalog) the set of courses you will need to take and the sequencing that give you the maximum flexibility (for outside interferences). </p>

<p>Now the important part - breaking it down. This is a daily task. Now that you have your goal in mind and the plan to achieve it, you will be presented with the daily task of carrying out that plan. You will get course syllibi, etc. that allow you to plan and break down the smaller details of each semester. Get a planner and put the test dates in there. Add all the other details from next semester registration (opening day - do it immediately to avoid missing out on critical classes). Give yourself adequate planning time (like seeing your advisor) to avoid being unprepared - adding this to the planner. </p>

<p>I think you get the idea here. Don’t give yourself an excuse to fail. Live by the saying “Failure to plan is a plan to fail”. This is the way to fight that learned behavior.</p>

<p>The last thing I will suggest is to keep it simple. Complexity in goals leads to opportunities to fail and you’ve learned how to accept failure. Fewer moving parts = fewer points of failure. Only add in complexity slowly after repeated demonstrations of success and only to a scale that you can repeatedly accomplish.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

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<p>I think your plan is one possibility, but I wonder if you are selling yourself short. There are friendships made and experiences you have in the first two years living on campus that you won’t have at a community college. OTOH if you DO fail, you lose a lot less money at the CC.</p>

<p>If I were in your shoes I’d seriously consider a gap year studying abroad, if you can afford it. The advantages: </p>

<p>You can learn a foreign language fluently - something that will be useful for the rest of your life.
You can have the experience of learning for the sake of learning without grades.
You can have the experience of learning one thing at a time.
Your horizons will be broadened. (If you attend a school like Alliance Francaise, the Goethe Institute you will meet students from all over the world.)
You will return to college refreshed.</p>

<p>By the way, I’m not surprised the TASP people were willing to take a risk with you. You clearly have a way with words. You should consider applying to some colleges that are known to take a little bit of risk if not now, perhaps after the gap year.</p>

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<p>Feeling as you do, I would recommend a year away from school. You don’t mention what your interests or particular skills are, but if you can find a way to create an income for yourself, perhaps by living at home for the year and working, go for it. I’ve known several people who have taken time off from school when their motivation or focus was lacking, and they all benefited from it. My own husband left college when we married and worked as a sailboat rigger for three years. When he went back to college, he was so motivated that he graduated a year early and received a graduate fellowship to Princeton.
There is nothing wrong with not knowing what you want to do with your life or career at your age. I don’t see this as a fear of failure. Sometimes listening to our gut is the way to go.
Take some time to figure out what you want and who you are. Are your parents
supportive of your idea? I would think if you have a plan in mind and present it as a positive step toward maturity and your future goals of finding a rewarding life’s work, they will understand. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Your writing style is very good, and individual: it is almost Dickensian or something. Your grades and SAT’s would probably get you in somewhere that is a good fit. I think you should go this fall, and not get off track. (Make sure to pay for tuition insurance though.)</p>

<p>Have you been evaluated for ADD? You sound motivated enough, but can’t follow your own motivation. I think you may need to talk to your parents, and/or your doctor, and see if you have attention problems that could be treated in therapy or with meds.
In any case, I would suggest working with a therapist on some of these self-impose obstacles, and establish better patterns. Now is a good time to start so that you can attend in the fall. Colleges also have help available, and you can continue to work on this with a therapist wherever you are.</p>

<p>Stop blaming yourself (this also seems to lend a Dickension tone to your writing). There is a book out with a title like “There is no such thing as laziness” (someone else may know exactly).</p>

<p>Give yourself a break, get some help, and stay on track. But I am only one person here. Just my two cents.</p>

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<p>I agree with going to a community college or getting accepted somewhere you want to go and taking a gap year.</p>

<p>I was the same way, only I didn’t hit the snag until my sophomore year of college. Thankfully it only took that one class, which I was able to withdraw from without penalty, to teach me a lesson. I immediately kicked it into gear, burned by the embarrassment of my immaturity, transferred from my CC to a great school and am thriving here so much it’s ridiculous. If you really think you’re not ready, the best choice may be to do something else for a semester or two–something productive, though, or you probably won’t change much. If you are just doubting yourself because you are so shaken up from the failure, though, apply to some colleges, let the shock die down, and see where you are when it comes to be decision time. After what happened to me, I could never let that mistake happen again. That was a brutal lesson learned. This could be for you to, or you may still need time to grow. You’ll have to be the judge yourself, but don’t eliminate any options for yourself until you have to.</p>

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<p>So, how does one apply for a gap year? After I get accepted, is there some sort of form that I have to fill out? Also, what would be good things for me to do during a gap year? There’s no way that my family could afford for me to go abroad, are there any free opportunities that offer similar benefits that I might have a chance at getting into?</p>

<p>And thanks for all of your responses, you presented me with a lot to think about.</p>

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<p>Most colleges will grant you a deferral of admission for a year if you can spend the year doing something productive. You will have to contact the college you want to attend to be able to do this.
One option can be volunteering with Americorps.
([AmeriCorps](<a href=“http://www.americorps.gov/]AmeriCorps[/url]”>http://www.americorps.gov/)</a>)
I am sure there can be other volunteer opportunities. Alternatively, you can try to get a fool time job.
Check with your parents if you can stay on their health insurance without being a full time student.</p>

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<p>If you are in or close to Texas there is an amazing program at the University of North Texas run by Dr. Jesús Rosales-Ruiz for students who find trouble doing college-level work for reasons other than significant academic deficits. They have a program that guides students to becoming excellent students who might otherwise fail. <a href=“http://www.constructionalmentors.com/index.htm[/url]”>http://www.constructionalmentors.com/index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Perhaps a year or two at UNT if one is looking to attend elsewhere, then transfer. Sometimes "aging’ works, but often one may need to learn the patterns of being a good student.</p>

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<p>I think you answered your own question–you say you’re not mature enough yet. This means you should not go.</p>

<p>My question is why you think you’re mature and disciplined enough for a CC? While many don’t have the rigor of most 4 year colleges, they still require some discipline. And to do your best and have a good shot of transferring to the best possible college, I’d hold off on that too.</p>

<p>Getting on the waitlist for TASP with those grades tells me they saw some real potential. Why not work here or backpack working your way through Europe or doing anything for a year or two to develop maturity? </p>

<p>I think that often, getting out into the world and seeing what’s available to the immature and undisciplined is all a smart kid needs to get what he has to do.</p>

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<p>If you want to take a gap year and not spend money, Americorps is a great idea.</p>

<p>If you can pay a little bit, you could try Volunteers for Peace or some other volunteer abroad program. This lets you work on a language, too.
[Volunteer</a> in a Workcamp in France](<a href=“http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0403/volunteer_workcamp_in_france.shtml]Volunteer”>Volunteer Workcamps in France | Rewarding Volunteering)
[International</a> Voluntary Service Projects, Project Directory, Volunteers for Peace](<a href=“http://www.vfp.org/directory.html]International”>http://www.vfp.org/directory.html)</p>

<p>You are clearly smart. I agree with your instinct: I think you would benefit from a year off before college. You might get a better merit aid, particularly, say, community service related merit aid, if you apply next year after spending some time volunteering, but really, there are many colleges who would love to have you with the grades and test scores you have right now. You could get an acceptance in hand and then defer admission - some but not all colleges let you do this.</p>

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<p>I think that you make a very good point. Do you then think that it would make more sense for me not to request a gap year from any of the colleges that I can get into currently? I mean, if I understand you correctly, you think that it might be best for me to take a gap year or two, then go to CC, and then transfer? I mean, something like that is definitely a possibility, but I worry about going into a gap year without a plan for what comes after. I definitely want to go to college, I just worry that I might not be ready to perform up to expectations due to my lack of self-discipline.</p>

<p>I’m simply uncertain about going out there without any sort of concrete plan. I mean, do you think that I would be okay not going to CC or anything and just generally being productive during my gap year? Would I still have a decent shot at colleges after that point? Or would I want to go to CC after the gap year? I just want to make sure that I have a plan that will allow for the most maturation, and the greatest opportunity to go to a good institution of higher learning.</p>

<p>So, which option do you guys think would provide the best opportunity for that?</p>

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<p>I’m not a parent, but from reading your posts, I don’t think you should take a gap year. I don’t think you’re burned out, but rather that you simply never developed the discipline to sit down and do work. Thus, I think you should enter CC next year so that you can develop the independent learning skills you’ll need in college. If you went to a 4-year school, particularly a good one, you might be overwhelmed because the work will be hard and there will be a lot of it. CC will probably be easier academically, and if you’re living at home, you won’t have the transition factor to deal with either. If you attend CC for two years rather than one, 4-year schools will place less emphasis on your high school transcript, and you can compensate more for some of those poor high school grades.</p>

<p>What are your interests? I assume that because of your interest in TASP that you would like to major in the humanities. Do you have a career path in mind?</p>

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<p>“I think you answered your own question–you say you’re not mature enough yet. This means you should not go.”</p>

<p>I agree. I think you should not apply to college this year, but should take next year off and work full time or volunteer full time or do something else productive such as traveling on your own dime. You’ll learn a lot about yourself and the world, and this also will help you apply to colleges that will best meet your needs.</p>

<p>I don’t think going to CC is the solution. I think you just need some time to mature more. I also think that CC would bore you because you wouldn’t be around many students who share your passion for learning (which was illustrated by your applying to TASP and making the waitlist), and the courses wouldn’t academically stretch you.</p>

19

<p>So, if I decide to take a year off, how does the application process work next year? Do I make sure that my guidance department has letters of recommendation, etc…? And then I’ll just go back when the time comes?</p>

<p>Also, I presented this idea to my parents, and they were very supportive, and thought that the idea reflected my thoughtful nature. Although, they were a little worried that my gap year might turn into gap years, and that I’ll begin to enjoy a life away from studying and other scholastic pressures. I think that I know myself well enough to know that my desire for higher education will not be dimmed by living and learning out in the real world, but does anyone have suggestions to make sure that I stay on track?</p>

20

<p>Talk to your guidance department about how to handle the recommendations, etc. for a gap year. My guess is it’s better to have your GC and teachers do the letters of recommendation now. Son waited to have his done while he was on gap year, and he had no problem, but that may be problematic if teachers, GCs, etc. move on or if your school is one of the rare ones that doesn’t provide guidance counselor services for recent grads.</p>

<p>What helped son stay on track was that he really does like academics. Being out in the world helped him appreciate college – the academic and EC opportunities – more than do many students who go straight to college and never realize that college is a rare, sweet time in life when one gets so much support in pursuing one’s academic interests as well as one’s interests in a variety of extracurriculars. </p>

<p>My son also saw more connection between the real world and his academics, such as learning that even out in the real world, one has to write reports and make deadlines.</p>