DS wants to go into finance after college and likely will follow undergraduate with a few years of work then business school. How important would you say an undergrad with a business school/business major is (like at U Michigan or Indiana or Penn) versus just a solid degree with an Econ major from a school that doesn’t have a business major (like Vanderbilt or Northwestern). Trying to decide if he should limit his college list to only schools with business/finance majors available or if he should also look at schools where he would major in an adjacent area like Econ and whether that would land him in the same place.
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Both are good choices. Don’t need to limit yourself. Probably UMich places better.
Here is data from a few years ago: Top Schools for Investment Banking | Bankingprep
Of course that is just banking data, and you are more open about other finance jobs also, but this data gives you some idea.
Lots of top20 schools do not have undergraduate business majors, and graduates place very well in financial careers or MBA later. It does not matter.
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For the Econ at top school option, you probably want to look at schools that do have a financial accounting class and a good number of finance-related classes within the Econ Dept. Not so much because they help in placement at the I-banks but because they will provide a basic foundation to perform better once at the I-bank.
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A student essentially can create a concentration in finance from economics department courses in topics such as accounting, corporate finance, international finance, financial economics and financial econometrics, in combination with significant math coursework. However, some economics departments cover more finance related topics than others, so your son may benefit from looking through course titles at colleges of potential interest. For ideas for schools to research further, these analyses may be of interest:
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The coursework considerations, while useful, are not critical. You are supposed to network at some of these companies from sophomore fall onwards. And at several of these schools there are gateway clubs that you should get into usually in freshman fall. Unless you are coming from a stem background and therefore circumvent this process but offering something else that is interesting to a financial firm.
It is useful to find out how hard it is to get into each of these clubs at the different schools, especially in places like UMich Ross or Stern. I suspect the smaller school econ majors won’t have such a regimented process.
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Based on what I know, MBA programs do not favor undergrad business majors. Further, it’s completely unnecessary to major in economics (unless, of course, he loves economics). Economics does not train you to be a business person.
Graduate business schools want a diverse class. Your son may be surprised to see that his MBA class comprises artists, opera singers, computer scientists, undergrad English majors, engineers, and even people with PhDs in a social science.
Bottom line, he should go to school at the college that he likes best and is affordable, regardless of whether it has an undergrad business program.
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I would take it a step down from your premise.
Where you go to school and what you major in won’t impact your B School chances. Your work experience and GMAT will.
Harvard’s most recent class is represented by 134 US universities. So of course, a U Michigan is going to place better on average (but not everyone) out of undergrad than say - name your regular flagship or regional school like a Murray State or a mid level private like a Denver or Elon, etc. but the truth is, you can get to a top B school from ANYWHERE and with ANY undergrad major. The schools you’re listing are all great…but just saying - it’s not Top 20 or bust. Nor is it econ or finance or bust.
When I was in grad school, I felt the B school undergrads were bored. It was the same thing - back to Harvard, their class is 28% engineering, 14% math/physical science, 10% social science, 5% arts, 19% econ - and yes 24% business.
In my MBA program and at the time was #40 and today is top #30 - we had kids from a vast array of colleges - some I hadn’t heard of. I remember one was at Grove City.
But everyone (but one Stanford guy) had work experience - probably 3-5 years on average or Ssome even more.
And I think that’s all that matters.
So Michigan is great but so is Minnesota or even Middle Tennessee State or Marist or Miami.
And whether you major in music, math, meteorology, or marketing, an MBA from a top program is within reach.
Good luck.
See the list at Harvard - includes the international schools.
- American University of Beirut
- American University of Cairo
- Amherst College
- Anna University
- Arizona State University
- Ateneo De Manila University
- Babson College
- Barnard College
- Bates College
- Ben Gurion University
- Bentley College
- Bilkent University
- Birla Institute of Technology and Science
- Bob Jones University
- Bocconi University
- Bogazici University
- Boston College
- Boston University
- Bowdoin College
- Brandeis University
- Brigham Young University
- Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute
- Brown University
- Bryn Mawr College
- California Institute of Technology
- Carleton College
- Carnegie Mellon University
- Case Western Reserve University
- Catholic University of Louvain
- Chinese University of Hong Kong
- Chulalongkorn University
- College of Management - Academic Studies
- College of the Holy Cross
- Colorado School of Mines
- Columbia University
- Cornell University
- Dartmouth College
- Dickinson College
- Duke University
- Ecole Centrale
- Ecole Nationale Superieure de Chimie de Paris - ParisTech
- Ecole Polytechnique
- Ecole Spéciale des Travaux Publics
- Ecole Superieure Science Economic Commerce (Initial Period)
- Emory University
- EPITA Graduate School of Computer Science
- ESCP Paris
- Etseib
- Florida A&M University
- Florida State University
- Franklin W. Olin College
- Fudan University
- Fundacao Getulio Vargas - Sao Paulo Business School
- Georgetown University
- Georgia Institute of Technology
- Georgia Southern University
- GIK Institute of Engineering Sciences and Technology
- Gujarat University
- H.R. College of Commerce and Economics
- Hampton University
- Harvard University
- Harvey Mudd College
- Haverford College
- Hebrew University of Jerusalem
- Heidelberg College
- Hochschule St. Gallen
- Howard University
- Humboldt University of Berlin
- Imperial College of Science and Technology
- Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay
- Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur
- Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur
- Indian Institute of Technology, Madras
- Indian Institute of Technology, New Delhi
- Indiana University
- Insper Ibmec-SP
- Institut Nationale des Sciences Appliquées Toulouse
- Instituto Superior Tecnico
- Instituto Tecnologico Autonomo de Mexico
- Instituto Tecnologico de Aeronautica
- Instituto Tecnologico de Buenos Aires
- Instituto Tecnologico de Monterrey (ITESM)
- Integrale Institut d’enseignement superieur prive
- Interdisciplinary Center
- IQS School of Engineering - Universitat Ramon Llull
- Jadavpur University
- Jiao Tong University
- Johns Hopkins University
- Keio University
- Kettering University
- Korea University
- Lahore University of Management Sciences
- London School of Economics and Political Science
- Louisiana State University
- Loyola University, Chicago
- Lycée Privé Sainte Geneviève
- Lycee Saint Louis
- Maastricht University
- Macalester College
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- McGill University
- Michigan State University
- Middlebury College
- Milan Polytechnic
- Monash University
- Montana State University
- Morehouse College
- Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology
- Moscow State Univ of Economics, Statistics, and Informatics
- Moscow State University
- Mount Holyoke College
- National Institute of Technology, Karnataka
- National Research University - Higher School of Economics
- National Taiwan University
- National Tsing Hua University
- New York University
- North Carolina State University
- Northeastern University
- Northwestern University
- Norwegian School of Economics and Business Administration
- Oberlin College
- Ohio Northern University
- Ohio State University
- Ohio Wesleyan University
- Oxford University
- Peking University
- Pennsylvania State University
- Peoples Education Society Institute of Technology
- Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
- Pontificia Universidade Catolica do Rio de Janeiro
- Princeton University
- Punjab Engineering College, Deemed University
- Purdue University
- Qinghua University
- Queen’s University
- Randolph-Macon College
- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
- Rice University
- Rijksuniversiteit Gent
- Rutgers - The State University
- Saint John’s College
- Santa Clara University
- SASTRA University
- Seattle University
- Seoul National University
- Shri Ram College of Commerce
- Simon Fraser University
- Southern Methodist University
- St. Joseph University
- Stanford University
- State University - Higher School of Economics
- State University of New York, Binghamton
- Stockholm School of Economics
- Swarthmore College
- Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
- Syracuse University
- Technical University of Budapest
- Technion-Israel Institute of Technology
- Technische Universität München
- Tel Aviv University
- Tel-Aviv University
- Texas A&M University
- Thammasat University
- The College of William and Mary
- The George Washington University
- The Interdisciplinary Center - IDC
- Tufts University
- Tulane University
- Unicamp-Brazil
- United States Air Force Academy
- United States Military Academy
- United States Naval Academy
- Universidad de los Andes
- Universidad Pompeu Fabra (UPF)
- Universidad Pontificia de Comillas (ICADE)
- Universidad Torcuato Di Tella
- Universidade de Sao Paulo
- Universidade Federal do Parana
- Universidade Federal do RGS
- University College London
- University of Alberta
- University of Arizona
- University of Bombay
- University of British Columbia
- University of Buenos Aires
- University of California, Berkeley
- University of California, Los Angeles
- University of Cambridge
- University of Cape Town
- University of Chicago
- University of Chile
- University of Cincinnati
- University of Connecticut
- University of Delaware
- University of Delhi
- University of Edinburgh
- University of Florida
- University of Georgia
- University of Iceland
- University of Illinois
- University of Kansas
- University of Maine
- University of Mannheim
- University of Maryland
- University of Maryland, Baltimore County
- University of Massachusetts
- University of Melbourne
- University of Miami
- University of Michigan
- University of Minnesota
- University of Montreal
- University of Münster
- University of Nebraska
- University of New South Wales
- University of North Carolina
- University of Notre Dame
- University of Oklahoma
- University of Oxford
- University of Paris II
- University of Pennsylvania
- University of Pittsburgh
- University of Poona
- University of Queensland
- University of Saint Thomas
- University of San Andres
- University of Sheffield
- University of South Carolina
- University of Southern California
- University of St. Gallen
- University of Sydney
- University of Texas
- University of the Basque Country - Faculty of Engineering
- University of the Philippines
- University of the South
- University of Tokyo
- University of Toronto
- University of Utah
- University of Virginia
- University of Warwick
- University of Washington
- University of Waterloo
- University of Western Australia
- University of Western Ontario
- University of Wisconsin
- Vanderbilt University
- Vassar College
- Vienna School of Economics and Business Administration
- Virginia Commonwealth University
- Virginia Military Institute
- Visveswaraiah Technological University
- Warsaw School of Economics
- Waseda University
- Washington and Lee University
- Washington University
- Webb Institute
- Wellesley College
- Wesleyan University
- WHU – Otto Beisheim School of Management
- Williams College
- Yale University
- Yeditepe University
- Yonsei University
- Zhejiang University
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An MBA program won’t prefer any particular undergraduate background but it will be more difficult to get a great job pre-MBA (which will affect one’s chances of getting admission into an MBA program as well as one’s post MBA opportunities) without either a business or Econ degree. I am advising my son to major in Econ (or double major) at the LAC he will be attending. Put differently, majoring in English is not really compelling for a potential employers versus kids with business, Econ or hard science/engineering backgrounds. I have worked on Wall St for 25 years so feel pretty comfortable commenting here (Ivy undergrad and MBA). I wouldn’t avoid a liberal arts Econ degree in favor of a Michigan like business degree just for career reasons. If the kid is drawn to liberal arts go for it (and so many folks on Wall St have that background including obviously all Ivy League graduates except Wharton). If the kid is all business, and knows he or she wants an undergrad business degree at age 17, can’t go wrong either. But don’t do an undergrad business degree just because you feel like you will be unable to get where you want to go otherwise. Econ at prestigious school could be just as good if not better. To be honest, a mind that can understand both a discounted cash flow analysis and and write a ten page paper on the Hegelian dialectic is arguably more valuable than one that is just capable of the former. There is more qualitative reasoning and verbal communication in high finance/business than people realize. And frankly the math rarely exceeds high school level (an exception would be quant stuff but that is a whole different game)
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This post is so on point. You should publish this and send it to all future business students.
The ability to clearly communicate and simplify complex issues for a wide audience is such a necessary skill in business, yet I have seen people with twenty years in business unable to do it.
I have told my own son that he should minor in a liberal art subject that requires writing for this very reason.
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It might be worth noting that economics itself is classified as a STEM major at some colleges.
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My daughter works in finance (IB) for one of the largest banks on the U.S. She is a 2017 grad from a pretty good b-school (but not Ivy). She works alongside many with econ degrees. She did not have a degree in finance, but rather a general business degree. She was recruiting for marketing jobs when she happened to land an interview for an IB internship, which led to a full-time offer after she graduated. The bank spent well over a year training all of their IB new hires, so whatever knowledge she came in with was irrelevant.
In her experience, an MBA is not needed, and she has no intentions of going on to get one. She’s been promoted several times since starting in 2017 and was most recently promoted to vice president - no MBA required for career advancement. Some of the older generation people that she works with have their MBA but no one in her age group is running out to get theirs.
Maybe for now, concentrate on the undergrad degree and getting a job the finance field, and then worry about the MBA. I think you’re putting the cart way before the horse.
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I too have heard this repeatedly. Fewer employers seek MBA grads anymore and are unwilling to pay the salary premium they demand; it is in part due to the rise in undergrad business degrees and internal training.
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I assume you are talking about IB, other banking, or consulting jobs. I am seeing many students with STEM majors (not including Econ) get these jobs…neuroscience, math, physics, etc. I don’t know what the proportion is of non-business or econ majors getting these types of jobs, but it’s not insignificant. My D who will be starting an IB job in the fall says her firm prefers to hire non-business majors (obviously just an anecdote of one). In consulting jobs, any major can go that route (including English, history, etc) if they have strong quant skills.
Separately for OP, one risk of a student attending an LAC or uni (without business majors) is what happens if the student doesn’t like econ? Econ is not like studying business, and can be highly theoretical and quant heavy (look at schools’ econ classes and requirements to see if the curricula appeal).
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An MBA has never been a necessity but it can be a worthwhile investment of time and money for someone in their mid 20s. I would just suggest that someone with a prestigious Econ degree is no better or worse positioned versus someone with a business degree in terms of advancing without the MBA.
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I would do the most quantitative undergrad course that you can excel in. So for example math econ rather than regular econ. Some business majors are not very mathy, conversely some social science majors do lots of big data analysis (my S learned advanced R for his public affairs thesis).
And I agree that nowadays fewer grads seem to regard an MBA as a necessity. I was talking to an associate at a well known PE firm about this, he did ORFE at Columbia and viewed that as entirely sufficient.
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I was actually not an Econ major but political science with a bunch of Econ course work. STEM major is well regarded as the quantitative/technical rigor exceeds what is normally needed in business contexts. I am mainly saying being a humanities type major even at a prestigious school isn’t ideal for getting a finance job out of college. I say this as someone who loves humanities and firmly believes the ability to write and think holistically are more important than working through silly equations. But not everyone shares my opinion and many humanities/social science types are ill equipped for jobs that require a lot of time with excel spreadsheets. I think double major in Econ and Whatever You Love is the ideal scenario. My main message is, if a kid wants to go to a liberal arts college to explore all the wonders of civilization, rather than just study finance, accounting, etc, please do it (ideally while majoring in Econ or something stem). What I told my son is you will take about 32 classes and maybe 10-12 will have to be in Econ to get the major. That leaves plenty of room to indulge in everything else. And to develop writing and thinking skills and intellectual creativity the undergraduate business types may miss out on.
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My S spends 70% of his time on Excel and 30% on PowerPoint. These are hugely undervalued skills in college, and I’m not sure even many econ majors actually learn them in college. He was very fortunate that his summer internships all involved Excel, but his current firm is almost obsessive about needing to know all the keyboard shortcuts: you are only considered good with Excel if you never need to touch the mouse.
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If your son may want a purely undergraduate-focused college experience, then he should be sure to research schools that offer this, such as Williams, Claremont McKenna, Amherst and Hamilton.
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Waste of time to learn this in college. My S was taught this in the first week of his internship. There are banks that outsource this teaching to third party trainers for the first two weeks of an internship or a job. Nobody will test you on this for getting into the job/internship. Should not waste time on this in college. But I agree that your hand is supposed to fly on the keyboard without you ever touching a mouse. For a markets job, they also train you to do trade entry with your eyes closed and 0% error on a dedicated customized keyboard in two weeks :-).
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