I’m not saying that there should be courses on Excel during college. But having done some Excel in his prior internships put him a long way ahead at his current firm, because there was no formal training course, you were just supposed to pick it up. And even then “practice your Excel skills” was one of the main things on his review after the first summer.
2 Likes
I would choose a school that has an undergrad business program. Then, if your son decides to major in economics, he can. If he wants to major in business with finance or an economics concentration, he can. There are so many great schools out there with excellent programs in both. Why limit your options if it is not necessary?
Also, IMO not enough credit is given to the value of the core requirements in an undergraduate business program. It gives you a broader, more practical understanding of business overall than economics, which will be more theoretical. Maybe he will find out he likes marketing, accounting, or management more along the way.
I think back to OPs initial question - how important is it to attend a college with a B school vs. one without - when wanting to pursue a Masters - the answer is quite simply - unimportant - as is even the major one does in undergrad.
Where and what major are unimportant - I was the broadcast journalism and history dual and got into two top MBAs I chose not to attend due to cost - UT Austin and Indiana.
The thing that will matter most is your work experience and in most cases (but not all today) the GMAT. What you studied undergrad will not matter.
If one wants to say it’s easier to get that solid work experience with a business or engineering or teaching degree vs. English, I won’t argue that point although many chains on this website would.
But the answer to the initial question is - doesn’t matter…
As for excel and powerpoint - they are crucial but I deem most “grow” their skills on the job…if you use it all the time, you’ll likely become a whiz, through practice and or training classes/teaching at your job, not the limited use through college.
Apparently more people majoring in econ/business, engineering and the physical sciences are able to get the kinds of work experiences graduate schools seek, since that is who they are largely admitting.
Agreed - I worry for my little girl majoring in poli sci and international relations…although once she gets an internship I’ll worry less. But she wants to work with refugees. But I don’t think working with refugees or working in policy or as a diversity rep or any of the things she wants to do would impact her odds of b-school vs. say an engineer. But I do think it’s a lot easier for an engineer to get a job than for her to get a job out of undergrad.
I can’t say it’s the same today and I’ve made this comment b4 and others have refuted - but when I was in B school, the engineer with the MBA was the hot ticket - although I remember having 8 offers even with my history and journalism degree - my work experience was outside sales, knocking on 50 doors a day of people that didn’t want to see me, selling long distance when you had to pay for it.
I’m simply saying - they’re not specifying a work experience - but yes, some majors are more likely to get hired out of undergrad to gain that work experience. And I agree with that and noted it. Thanks
1 Like
I work in a quant firm. I know we are talking about IB, but there are other roles on Wall Street besides Corporate Finance. If you want to be an analyst (buy side or sell side), consider the Charter Financial Analyst (CFA) designation. The CFA designation can be more marketable than an MBA, and it is obviously self-studying and cheaper. This requires studying for 3 levels over a couple of years. I only hire those with a CFA designation. I have a CFA designation myself, along with an MBA, and the CFA has served me better.
Edited: 90%+ of our CFAs are also MFEs. Those that are not CFAs/MBA’s have a PhD or a Master in an engineering discipline (but all have MFEs).
6 Likes
You go to a strong undergrad because you have the option of avoiding an mba altogether. An mba costs 500k including opportunity cost. Between business and Econ it really depends on the school. Strictly based on rankings and access to top internships, the choice weaves in and out — ie Wharton or some reasonable major at HYPS (none of them offer business) would be in one bucket and so on down.
Strong schools have access that schools perceived to be not as strong simply don’t have. As an example I know kids from Princeton who directly placed into internships at KKR and Blackstone - typically places that you want to get to after spending two years at a bank.
2 Likes
The CFA is a buy side phenomenon. And I see that as a marketing tool – to show prospective investors that your team is qualified, especially because firms tend to be small, and often don’t have a mega brand on their own, but still need to attract capital from investors. Large banks, on the other hand, don’t care. When Goldman Sachs presents John Smith to the client, the firm is able to say that we trust John Smith to give you good advice, and you shouldn’t bother to check what qualifications John Smith has. Therefore many/most people on the sell side do not have CFAs. I have a PhD and I never put it on my business card when I was at a sell side firm. I only started after I moved to the buy side. And pure quant firms that don’t depend on outside capital, often don’t even care about your degree as long as you have the skills they need. In this instance I have heard of cases where a kid goes for an internship after junior year, gets an offer after the internship, and drops out of undergrad to join right away.
1 Like
I started my career on the sell side and have a CFA, and everyone in the research department worked towards a CFA designation as well. I totally disagree that it is a marketing tool. This is a very rigorous program that evens the playing field for people who don’t want to get an MBA. For quants, as you can read above in my comments, most have an MFE. However, believe it or not, most have CFAs as well. Not everyone aspires to be on the sell side.
2 Likes
Incidentally I did not say that a CFA is not rigorous :-).
And for the OP – one key difference between the sellside and the buyside is that the buyside tends to be very broad and not as deep, and the CFA serves this need very well. The sell side tends to be very niche and specialized, especially if you end up on the markets side, and the firm trains its own people on all the nitty gritty that is often handed down from a senior person to a junior person in the group. This stuff is not written down in a textbook.
I am also skeptical what portion of the IB analyst crowd have CFAs. They may get one after they move to the buy side.
If he goes into finance after undergrad, why does he feel the need to go get an MBA afterwards? These days, a person working in finance no longer needs an MBA to keep progressing in the finance industry. MBAs are however very useful for those seeking to switch careers into the finance industry.
There is no need to stick with colleges that only have business programs. For those colleges that do not, it is very common for Econ majors to enter finance.
5 Likes
The level of math and statistics used in economics majors and courses does vary across departments. Some departments offer options of different levels of math.
But note that economics departments at colleges without undergraduate business majors seem to be more likely to offer more business-flavored electives like more finance courses, managerial economics, etc. Or they may offer a “business economics” version of the major (e.g. Chicago and UCLA).
1 Like
I also doubt many in IB have the CFA designation. However, maybe it is my perception seeing posts from teens on CC and parents of these teens who are not in finance, unaware of all the possibilities/options in finance. It seems kids have the notion of “IB or bust” when there is so much more out there. That is why I mentioned other alternatives.
Maybe I am missing something but don’t almost all schools with an undergraduate business program also offer a degree in economics?
1 Like
If you go to a school like UPenn, and you choose to get an econ degree where it’s flagship product is a business degree, you will fare relatively poorly in the job market vs the business grad. Because firms will (generally) correctly assume that you went into econ because you could not get admitted to Wharton. So when you pick a school that offers both, you are supposed to pick the business degree. This is just being practical.
1 Like
True but OP noted the plan is to go to b school after working. I’m simply following the topic.
What you are asking - is an MBA even necessary ?
Great question. Maybe a different chain.
1 Like
Yes. And in some of those colleges, the undergraduate business degree can be a better pipeline to finance jobs than the Economics degree. Examples include Wharton, Ross, and Haas.
But among these three, only Wharton is considered a better pipeline than highly selective colleges that only have an Economics department. Examples include Harvard, Princeton, Chicago, Duke, and Vanderbilt. While MIT has a highly reputed undergraduate business program, I suspect that the Economics students do just as well there.
4 Likes
SPIA at Princeton is considered a stronger major than Econ. Econ (unless it is grad track) is considered an easy major. Jerome Powell, and the newly appointed co-CIO (at the age of 36) of Bridgewater Associates are both SPIA majors.
You gotta love how this site immediately went to IB when the OP said finance. Maybe the OP’s kid wants to work in a FP&A type role.
4 Likes
Interesting. Econ can be a ridiculously easy major at Harvard (then again, that’s true of a lot of majors at Harvard, but I digress). The lack of difficulty doesn’t seem to hurt them with recruiting.