<p>I think if the Ivy's just published the data on the admit rates for for applicants with various characteristics like SAT's, GPA's, AP's, for non-recruited athlete, non-URM, and non-legacy students, the students would self select and accomplish the same thing (lower applications). I've seen some of this data in a book by a former admissions officer and it would be very helpful if made generally available. The colleges have an obvious incentive, in terms of the rankings, to keep this data to themselves. This is why I favor removing the ratio of acceptances to applications from the USNWR ranking system.</p>
<p>Post #317: "Use only 11th and 12th year GPA? What about kids who graduate early? What about kids who take APs in 9th and 10th grades?"
If the kids graduate early then use GPA of their last two years. I would replace AP tests, SAT-II tests with some kind of comprehensive tests that determine the creativity and problem solving skills of students at the last year of high school. The comprehensive tests should not require much memory about the classes taken in the past. AP tests and SAT-II tests don't show the quality of a fully grown high school students when they are about to enter colleges.</p>
<p>Two years ago I yelled at SAT corporate in NY for not offering this. We literally got into a shouting match at one point. Their reasoning: (1) cost of security, building operation (2) "non-availability" of teachers.</p>
<p>Maybe NY teachers disappear in summer. Not in my State. Most of the charters (almost half the state) don't pay their teachers salaries over the summer months (even when those teachers do have required mtgs during summer), + "summer vacations" are notlong enough for teachers to travel wide & far. (Yr. ends often mid-July; mandated prep & professional mtgs start 1st week in Aug.) About half the public school teachers would definitely be available to proctor.</p>
<p>Um, There's this thing called summer school. in selected schools in every district. Requires bldg. to be maintained, open for 4-6 weeks. During that period, Saturday tests are a no-brainer. (You think they don't pay security & staff overtime now, to staff the SAT administration on Saturdays during the academic year? Of course they do.)</p>
<p>Alternative for SAT personnel with maybe one creative marker in their DNA:
Use a non-high-school site. Lights! Flash! Same as done for other standardized tests. (One of the excuses by the SAT chief in NY for not offering more test dates during the school yr. even, was not enough high school sites. So use college sites. I took my SAT on a University campus.)</p>
<p>Summer SATs are a great idea. Our GC makes a huge effort to get to know each of his kids, but if a GC is just doing something generic, that's pretty useless. Teacher recs should give an ad com a close and personal look at the applicant and an honest one as well.</p>
<p>"Teacher recs should give an ad com a close and personal look at the applicant and an honest one as well."</p>
<p>Yes.<br>
I've talked a lot on CC about teacher recs. Teachers, students, maybe even many people in admissions tend to look on these as one more aspect of the "contest," one more quantitative ("better than") element to review. But they can be more valuable in qualitative ways. They're one of the few opportunities to distinguish one student's style from another's. That's a neutral but important piece of information. If a U, or a program in a U, seeks a particular orientation in a student, it's best for the college and for the applicant if the recommendation discloses that student's style, approach, tendencies. Does this student maintain a consistently disciplined approach to the subject matter? Or does the student routinely draw from other disciplines in his approach to this discipline? One campus may (this year) prefer Student A. Another campus may prefer Student B. And the student himself may have revealed that in an essay, but who's to know if the essay was edited or re-written by an adult, or shadow-written by anyone?</p>
<p>A teacher discussion of the student's style verifies or challenges the application & essay contents, and is also a longer view over the "history" of one class, than the app. is.</p>
<p>Nope. :). And I specifically offered the idea of a summer premium, to the SAT head. Her response was that it had never occurred to her.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>I am a recruit for Harvard ironically enough (has been deferred) I went to an info session for recruits by Harvard admission officers and The Harvard admission officer said it very clearly. We see what courses you took in high school , How much you challenged yourself and how consistent is your transcript, Even though SAT is Important we dont find one's ability on the test he/she took for 4 hours. There was a whole lot of questions back and forth. Your Aps in high school have more weight than your Sat, he added ofcourse we expect all of you here tonight will get good scores!!!! The Moral of the story = I wish Admission officers reveal their secrets of what they do when they decide who to admit out of a strong pool. ( Lottery system??) after they separate by gender, race , Athletes .legacy.???????)</p>
<p>I also would have been happy to pay a premium. Another annoyance about the SAT is how early in the am the kids are supposed to be there and long delays while the adults get their act together and the breaks are too short.</p>
<p>Totally, bethie. (Post 330)
This was discussed several months ago with regard to LD issues & concentration, but there's some physiology applicable here to adolescents in general. (Their bodies are actually "clocked" for a later sleep cycle than young chidren or adults; & they operate more optimally when that cycle is complete. This is based on known research.)</p>
<p>Also agree about the wasting of the time.</p>
<p>There is no reason on God's green earth why that test can't start somewhere between 10:30 a.m. and 2 p.m.</p>
<p>Speaking of clocks, everyone remember to change yours tomorrow.</p>
<p>When people say they wish the process was more transparent, like knowing stats for URM students, athletes, legacies, I always think "lawsuit". Wouldn't the schools be opening up a huge can of worms doing this?</p>