If you could change one thing about the college admissions process

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm surprised no one has suggested eliminating legacy preferences. This is hard to do from practical point of view, but remember we have a magic wand. i would be hard put to think of a less ethically defensible part of the process.</p>

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<p>
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This is not about financial aid, it's about spaces going to students living abroad when there are plenty of students living here that are just as qualified, even for the most select universities.

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<p>Having lived abroad as a foreign student myself, and knowing many international students from many countries, I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that "just as qualified" Americans lose places in university to international students. The international students who get into United States colleges, especially as undergraduates, are more qualified than the typical Americans at the same colleges. </p>

<p>So this doesn't become a complete thread hijack, I will answer the OP's question by saying that I think any college with a base acceptance rate below 33 percent might just as well go to a single-deadline admission system as Harvard and Princeton plan to do next year.</p>

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<p>
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I'm surprised no one has suggested eliminating legacy preferences.

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</p>

<p>I could go for that.</p>

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<p>


I quarrel with this because is see great value in having foreign students share their experiences and outlooks, some radically different from our own. I know a young lady from our wide-spot-in-the-road who shares a suite with two orphans from Rwanda. It has been a life altering experience. There are many exceptional schools in the U.S. for our best and brightest students. They are just not necessarily THE schools.</p>

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<p>International students are benefiting from excellent US post-secondary education. But the main reason selective schools admit internationals is the value they add to the academic and social experience of every student on the campus.</p>

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<p>"The international students who get into United States colleges, especially as undergraduates, are more qualified than the typical Americans at the same colleges."
That may be so, but I'm not talking about "typical American students". I'm talking about the most qualified US students, some of whom will be rejected because there simply aren't enough openings to take all of them. Should International students be admitted instead, in the name of diversity?</p>

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<p>Eliminate early decision! Ironically, my S did ED last year, was admitted, and loves his school. However, it gives an advantage to those with the resources not to have to compare FA packages. In addition, it would be great to get back to a winter and spring time table for seniors- it would reduce the stress of trying to get all the college visits and testing done by the end of junior year.</p>

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<p>I guess my point, which is being lost here I fear, is that if "wishes were horses" and I had a magic wand, Universities in the US that benefit from being exempt from US taxes, and are in effect being subsidized by US taxpayers, accept equally qualified US students first, as a conditon of maintaining that tax exempt status. Just a wish. Now back to reality.</p>

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<p>My biggest negative with the present system is the incredible disparity between guidance and support available to comparable students. Rural, inner city, and low performing school districts with poor advising and little to no track records with the elites and other top schools place their students at a horrible disadvantage for admission and for scholarships. </p>

<p>No one counsels the kid she can go with appropriate FA. No one shows her how to go about applying, or develeping a standardized test strategy much less have study time at school for such strategies. The teachers/GC can't write secret code rec's for her. And the school has no record in math, intel, RSI, anything that is a relatively normal quest at our "best" feeder schools Not to mention having one or three AP's only. </p>

<p>Schools should do a better job getting info to the kids that speak to these issues , not just send a letter that says "We want kids like you at Blank. Don't let thoughts of $ make a difference" when there is no full explanation of what that means. </p>

<p>My sister is a single mother with a deadbeat no CS paying ex. But for the fact her brother is a lawyer who can terminate the weasel just in time for FA computation (removing his income from consideration :)) and the fact that my time on the board has taught some of the ins and outs of the process, my neice would have taken her top 10% admit to Texas or A+M just like 80% of her top ten classmates. </p>

<p>Now she will be able to consider need only schools where mom's income will qualify her for cheaper tuition than our state schools. </p>

<p>They are NOT reaching these kids.</p>

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<p>I think the quote was:</p>

<p>
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"The international students who get into United States colleges, especially as undergraduates, are more qualified than the typical Americans at the same colleges."

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<p>I'll declare a bit of vested interest here first, as I am an International applicant to the United States, but I do think there are a few points to be raised here.</p>

<p>Firstly Internationals do more than just bring 'diversity' to the college campus. I mean that's an extremely misused word these days, taken to be justification for all manner of occurrences. The average International Student at one of the top colleges (I assume you're referring to these alone), will necessarily be brilliant (the extreme difficulty of the Applicant pool ensures that), and will probably utilize his or her education to the fullest and contribute to the college community to a great degree. (I'll go out on a limb here and say that because it was so difficult for him to get accepted in the first place, he'll prize his education to a very high degree)</p>

<p>It's a moot point anyway. The college admissions process is by no means a zero sum game, and in any case the number of seats reserved for Internationals are normally so small in number that their presence will not adversely affect the acceptance rates of Domestic Applicants.</p>

<p>@ the OP: What would I change? I'd remove the generic essays (issue/influence) and replace them with something along the lines of UChicago or Penn's essays.</p>

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<p>


Yes. They add to the quilt in marvelous ways.</p>

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<p>

...But they do; that is reality. Given the choice between an international applicant and a domestic one, all other things being equal, colleges will take the domestic student every time.

<a href="http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/international_applicants_helpful_tips/international_men_women_of_mys.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/international_applicants_helpful_tips/international_men_women_of_mys.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There is nothing worse than being an international student in college admissions. It's the ultimate anti-hook. THEY DON'T WANT US. I hate to yell, but that's basically what it comes down to.</p>

<p>And that is why, even though everyone</a> here tells me otherwise, I have a very real fear of not being accepted anywhere in April.</p>

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<p>And if you ever browse the International Student Forum you'll find that most internationals (myself included) suffer from the same fear. If the admissions process is stressful for US applicants you can be assured it's many times more nerve-wracking for Internationals.</p>

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<p>camelia, chill. You are looking good. It doesn't cost anything to be optimistic. ;)</p>

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<p>
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I'm surprised no one has suggested eliminating legacy preferences.

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If there were no legacy preferences, colleges would not see sudden donations from their alums who have children applying to the University. My dad donated $0 before I decided to apply to his alma mater. Even though a you couldn't buy a text book with his donations, consider that over 1,000 legacies apply to this college every year. Imagine how many alums are donating to this college for the first time, or increasing their donations to increase their child's chances for gaining admission. We are talking a lot of money in donations and no college wants to lose that kind of cash. And don't think that my fellow legacies are taking tons of seats because we have a 30% admit rate (considering that the bulk of us are accepted ED which already has a higher acceptance rate) and we only make up 15% of the class. I don't think that a college with over a $5 billion endowment needs much more cash, but colleges can be greedy.</p>

<p>I agree with Shrivats's recommendation for a change because it discourages a student from applying to 20 schools and almost forces a student to forget about applying to some random college they find on the common app site. Another change I would make is showing the average stats for each race and gender that is admitted to a college, and then present the stats again, but this time excluding developmental admits and athletes. Maybe also the average stats of legacies not including legacies who are developmental admits or athletes. This should shed some light as to how much race and legacy really matter in admissions.</p>

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<p>I'd change the whole process. </p>

<p>First, everyone or at least almost everyone, would take a "gap" semester after high school. You'd graduate in May or June and start college the following January. </p>

<p>You wouldn't apply to college until you finished high school--or a couple of months beforehand. ALL of high school would count, so senioritis wouldn't be an option. You wouldn't find out whether or not you got in until after graduation, sometime during that gap semester. The testing schedule would be pushed back. The PSATs or whatever was used for National Merit Scholarships wouldn't be administered until fall of senior year. Colleges wouldn't accept SAT I or II scores taken before September of senior year.
You would only be permitted to take the SAT or ACT two times. Teachers' recs would be written after graduation. (In my ideal magic wand world, I'd pay teachers to work a couple of weeks beyond the school year to do this.) </p>

<p>The whole process would be compressed time wise and most importantly, all of senior year would matter. This would not only prevent senioritis, it would also help late bloomers. </p>

<p>It would be the normal pattern to do some sort of internship or community service project or to just work during the gap semester. If some people just wanted to goof off though, that would be allowed.</p>

<p>The freshmen would show up in January at the start of the second semester, after the school year was in full swing. </p>

<p>There are admittedly lots of flaws in my plan. But the whole process now simply takes too much time. Many kids are taking the PSATs as sophomores as well as some SAT IIs. All of junior year seems to be devoted to taking tests. The whole process has distorted high school.</p>

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<p>
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I'm talking about the most qualified US students, some of whom will be rejected because there simply aren't enough openings to take all of them.

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<p>Students who can aptly be described as "the most qualified US students" all attend college if they so desire. They mostly attend GREAT colleges. There is ample opportunity for a great education at an affordable price for any American student who is truly among the "the most qualified." And students with those qualifications largely desire to be in stimulating college environments with fellow students from all over the world.</p>

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<p>I like your ideas, jonri!</p>

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<p>Jonri: I like it, but it doesn't go far enough. When you wave your wand, make it a universal gap year. Let the h.s. kids uniformly step off the educational conveyor belt long enough to get to know themselves a little better and research colleges without time pressure. If it's only a gap semester, they are still having to go through the visit-research-evaluate-hone application-decide process during the school year, which is now that much more significant since second semester grades will count. One thing that would have a true beneficial effect on college application decisions would be to remove the winnowing and decision process from peer pressure regarding "where you got in."</p>

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<p>I honestly think that for many, if not most kids a gap YEAR is just too long. I think that's one of the reasons why not that many kids do it. I think six months is about the right length of time for most kids. Plus, there is some downside from taking time off--especially in math and, for those not fluent, foreign language. (You can use your magic wand for a gap year, but mine thinks six months is right for most kids.) </p>

<p>I TOTALLY agree that getting away from the peer pressure of where you got in would be of benefit. I think kids NEED to apply during the school year because they should have access to the high school's resources and their guidance counselors during the application period. I just think that once the applications are in, the need for that involvement is much less. And I do NOT want the kids to spend the gap time--whether my six months or your year--researching colleges. Now, taking a gap year usually doesn't solve most of the problems my plan is supposed to address. Kids who take a gap year usually do everything their classmates do and apply to college at the same time. So, their second semester doesn't matter that much either. They just DEFER for a year. To my mind, that doesn't solve the problem of how much the college admissions process has distorted the high school experience. And devoting MORE time to researching colleges is the antithesis of what I want to accomplish.</p>