<p>Ginny-thanx - what's douthat??</p>
<p>Harvard has to parsel itself out to both undergraduate and graduate education, whereas Princeton can devote all of its funds to undergraduate education. Yes, Harvard is richer, but a large portion of its endowment is in the land value, and land in Cambridge is worth more than land in Princeton (I got this information from the alumni who interviewed me), so any difference in the end would most likely be divied up between undergraduate and graduate education.</p>
<p>Also, for science majors, Princeton has the Institute for Advanced Study right next door. Even though the researchers there don't teach, they're more than willing to be a resource to students. A friend of mine in third year at Princeton has held several summer research positions there, and says that the IAS is helpful for science majors doing their senior theses.</p>
<p>Also, it's not unlikely that BU would have a few courses that Harvard may not. I listed BU as an option, regardless of whether it's a popular option or not.</p>
<p>"Douthat" is Ross Gregory Douthat, the author of the book I mentioned ("Privilege: Harvard and the Education of the Ruling Class").</p>
<p>"Finsally, I guess I'm confused, because I thought it was Annenberg Hall at Harvard that reminded you of Hogwarts and made you love it so much!" (Byerly)</p>
<p>Yeah, I love Annenberg Hall. However, I also think Yale resembles Hogwarts. My point is that Princeton is the most Hogwarts-y of all--more so than Harvard, which really only has the similarity of its name to Hogwarts and Annenberg Hall.</p>
<p>I'm an avid Harry Potter fan, so I have a tendency of finding Harry Potter-associated things everywhere I go.</p>
<p>Oh right - thanx</p>
<p>I would second Byerly's assessment of Ginny's posts. Harvard is a fantastic place for undergrads, if you're the self-starter type who can proactively grab the opportunities that are there for you. The breadth and depth of the resources at Harvard is unparalleled, and all the resources of the entire university are available to undergrads who are able and willing to make use of them. My son, a freshman, has already made extensive use of the resources at the Law School and the Kennedy School. He has also developed good relationships with a couple of professors, as well as with a couple of TF's whom he finds both engaging and brilliant. And all this in three months. :)</p>
<p>As for Ross Douthat. He went to Harvard, where he apparently had an unsatisfactory social life, and graduated in 2002, somewhat embittered about the place. This is evident in the book he recently wrote criticizing the school. Here's an excerpt from a review of his book in Slate:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Douthat is an old soul trapped in a young campus conservative's body, and true to type, the principal victim of the culture of privilege is Douthat himself. If Douthat wishes he had encountered one more poor student while at Harvard, he never lets on; and Privilege doesn't waste a precious syllable on how to make Harvard a more vigorously fair institution. We do, however, hearand at great lengthabout how Douthat failed to get into the "final club" of his choice (apparently he wasn't among those who "lived in the right suburb, vacationed in the right windswept part of Long Island or Maine or Nantucket or the Vineyard") and how a certain campus starlet (who "would have been pretty had it not been for the ghostly, heavily made-up pallor of her skin and the coldness of her eyes") refused to acknowledge his existence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, Douthat didn't like the social life, but his criticisms of his undergraduate education at Harvard are worth reading. I think it should be noted that the review doesn't attack Douthat's exposition on his academic experiences, but instead attacks him lamenting about his love life/involvement in extracurricular activities.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Harvard has to parsel itself out to both undergraduate and graduate education, whereas Princeton can devote all of its funds to undergraduate education<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Let's not exaggerate here. Princeton is a wonderful school, but it by no means devotes all its funds to its undergraduates. What Princeton really lacks are professional schools such as a law or medical school. But it does have a graduate school - with about 2000 grad students enrolled. Thus with about 4500 undergrads it means about 2/3 of the students are undergrads and about 1/3 are grad students. A strong undergrad focus? Yes. Devoting all its resources to the undergrads? Hardly.</p>
<p>Can somone answer my question?:
And another question toO guys, what is SO wrong about having a T.A take your course are they mean/stupid/have no clue about what they are teachiong/don't really care?? I was just wondering.
And also, if you go to Harvar College and lets say you want to go to Harvard Med school are your chance of getting into med. school higher than if you had gone to Pton , or is MAINLY the grades that matter and we don't give you a leg up type of thing? What if you both have the same grades?</p>
<p>Okay, I apologize; Princeton can devote the large majority (not ALL) of its funds to undergraduate education. However, you have to admit that 2000 or so grad students is still less than the 13 000 or so graduate students at Harvard.</p>
<p>That said, I get the impression you guys think I dislike Harvard. I don't, not if I'm frequenting the Harvard messageboard. The OP made a post asking for a comparison between Harvard and Princeton, and I'm just trying to be fair by pointing out good things about Princeton to even out all the "Harvard is naturally the best" posts that will undoubtedly come with posting a comparison between X college and Harvard in the Harvard forum.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>is SO wrong about having a T.A take your course<< </p> </blockquote>
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<p>With the exception of some foreign language classes that are required to be taught by native speakers, and certain writing classes that are taught by published authors, all classes at Harvard College are taught by professors. It's required. The professors are often aided by TAs who supervise small study sections, just as they do at many other colleges - including Princeton.</p>
<p>thefootscrubber:</p>
<p>It won't disadvantage you if you studied at Harvard during your undergraduate years rather than at Princeton (even though American universities have the strange habit of encouraging their undergraduate students to enroll in a different university for grad studies). It comes down to faculty recommendations, your personal statement, and your accomplishments over the years. Knowing your professors more closely would give you an advantage in that they can write letters that give the university more insight into who you are compared to a letter written by a professor who doesn't know you as well. In this respect, Princeton's tight-knit atmosphere between the students and the faculty might serve you more in the cut-throat competition for entrance into med school.</p>
<p>Ok so are T.A's bad or what?.. and my other question (#69) .. ok I'm probably being REALLY annoying but I would just like some answers</p>
<p>Ginny -</p>
<p>I admire Princeton very much, and it's undergrad focus is great. But like most things in life, there is a flip side - a flip side to not having any professional schools. For example: for an undergrad majoring in any of the biomedical sciences it can be a major boon to have a medical school at your university. It opens up a much wider world of access to research opportunities, professors, seminars, guest lecturers, and just plain resources that wouldn't exist if the medical school didn't. </p>
<p>So bragging about the undergrad focus is okay, but don't be fooled into thinking there isn't sometimes a price to pay for that focus. For the undergrads at Princeton who want to major things like genetics or neuroscience or biochemistry, not having a medical school is not a cause for celebration. It is an obstacle to be overcome.</p>
<p>That's a good point. I'm looking at the humanities, so I haven't really factored in the benefits of having a professional school nearby--something that would be important for many science majors, as coureur pointed out.</p>
<p>We're not exactly making it easier for thefootscrubber, but at least he/she now has some good/bad points about Harvard and Princeton to muse over before making the final decision.</p>
<p>The easy choice is Princeton. </p>
<p>For an undergraduate, there's very little that Harvard can offer other than a nice, elitist location. That's really it. Harvard's professors are far more concerned with their research and their graduate students. You'll receive an actual education rather than an honors degree on a silver platter, and you'll come out the better for it. </p>
<p>"For the undergrads at Princeton who want to major things like genetics or neuroscience or biochemistry, not having a medical school is not a cause for celebration. It is an obstacle to be overcome."
Not really. Most undergrads will never enter a hospital and most want to do research, not clinical work as an undergrad anyway. Princeton places very well into medical schools. </p>
<p>Douthat's critiques of the social life at Harvard are spot-on.</p>
<p>Just curious, zephyr. How many years did you spend at Harvard?</p>
<p>As a general rule of thumb, when a student/alum/supporter of one school offers observations about another, it's best to take those observations with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Zepher didn't make the Ivy cut. He is a bit sad about this, which is why, even though he wound up at Stanford - a pefectly decent school - he finds it necessary to constantly post on the Ivy boards, sniping at the higher-ranked schools at which he was rejected, or to which he was afraid to apply.</p>
<p>I think he just called Cambridge an "elitist location". That pretty much says everything you need to know.</p>
<p>Um, Ginny, if you want to go to Hogwarts, you should have just applied to one of the Oxbridge unis when you had the chance :p</p>