<p>Fortunately you were admitted to Stanford as you had no decent Ivy option.</p>
<p>Douthat is a whiner, as are so many Crimson whiters, but let me assure you there is no place in the world he would have rather gone than Harvard.</p>
<p>Yeah, zephyr. Comon... STANFORD?!!! PFFFFFFFFFT. You're practically throwing your life away. You must be poor or stupid or both.</p>
<p>Isn't Harvard the #1 school in the world????</p>
<p>WHy is there even a debate going on about this HAHA. It's like debating over whether to take own a Mercedes or a Toyota if someone offers to let you take one home for free.</p>
<p>P.S.: I do know someone who chose the University of Michigan over Harvard so I guess anything is possible.</p>
<p>Because saying it's #1 in the world is the most subjective thing ever. Most rankings put Harvard at #1 overall but that doesn't mean that it's the best school for everyone. Every school is different and there are MANY people who would benefit more from other schools than from Harvard. A math genius who likes warm weather and a small community would do much better at Caltech, for example, than at H.</p>
<p>Evil, I'd take the Toyota. It's more fuel efficient, and I have a 40 mile commute over 3 of the nations busiest freeway interchanges (which = no movement). Also, the Toyota doesn't break down as easily as the BMW and lasts ALOT longer.</p>
<p>I'd say it depends on the Toyota we're talking about...</p>
<p>LOL. I'd still take the Toyota. A lot cheaper over time.</p>
<p>
Could have sworn I just covered that with facts:)</p>
<p>Zephyr's an inveterate Harvard basher who is not particularly concerned with the facts. But one does have to wonder what Harvard-related trauma was so severe that he/she feels compelled, well into freshman year at another terrific school, to hang around this board posting trash-talking nonsense about Harvard. :)</p>
<p>"Zephyr's an inveterate Harvard basher who is not particularly concerned with the facts."
That's a problem a lot of us suffer from. 26th out of 31 in the student satisfaction survey is a fact, isn't it? A 2:1 graduate:undergraduate ratio is a fact, right? </p>
<p>And yet that remains, Bandit, one of the main complaints about Harvard, originating from undergraduates themselves.</p>
<p>I think that Harvard types, so secure in their own greatness, have problems accepting criticism. </p>
<p>I did not apply to Harvard as I felt the education and social life were both lacking. I'm quite happy at Stanford. </p>
<p>I find it funny how for Byerly, "decent" Ivy League options extend to HYP.</p>
<p>When a Stanford student hangs out on this board obsessively bashing Harvard, one has to assume that there's something more going on. You'd be better off confining yourself to defending against similarly unfounded claims that Stanford's focus is on graduate students rather than undergrads:</p>
<p>At least on the subject of Stanford, there's some hope that you actually know what you're talking about. On the subject of Harvard, it's quite clear that you have no clue.</p>
<p>I have no respect for Princeton. What kind of IVY LEAGUE institution has neither a Medical nor Law school? I don't even know what grad schools they have besides engineering. Princeton, in my opinion, is the most overrated ivy of them all. Harvard, while it has a very big name attached to it, lives up to it for the most part. Harvard is the way. Princeton is gay.</p>
<p>Your argument, Madden, supports the assertion that Harvard is graduate-focused. The entire greatness of Princeton is that they don't have large-scale graduate programs. I admit that even Stanford doesn't focus on undergraduates like Princeton does. </p>
<p>I'm not "obsessively bashing Harvard." I'm merely trying to present a different view than this mindless, self-satisfied "Harvard is #1" attitude on this board. It's supported by most of the posts on this thread, for example, with people simply saying that Harvard is #1 and therefore it is better.</p>
<p>I've cited actual data. Have you? Just because it doesn't agree with your dogmatic view doesn't mean it's not true. </p>
<p>REPUTATION AND EDUCATION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.</p>
<p>Zephyr, no one on this board who (1) goes to Harvard, (2) has gone to Harvard, or (3) has children at Harvard, agrees with you. I'm just curious as to why a Stanford student would devote the majority of his/her 831 posts on this site to badmouthing Harvard. It seems silly.</p>
<p>I do, however, agree with your observation (post 110) that being an inveterate Harvard basher who is not particularly concerned with the facts is a problem that a lot of people suffer from. :)</p>
<p>Zephyr probably hangs out here for the same reason that the bookstore at Stanford sells "Harvard: the Stanford of the East" t-shirts. Harvard-centrism is a common syndrome at many schools - admiration, respect, fear, jealousy and hate, all rolled into one. Young Zephyr seems to have contracted the disease!</p>
<p>My assertion, zephyr, is that Harvard is focused on higher education in every aspect, or as many as they physically can. Princeton is only in a few specific areas. Surely Princeton has the resources to have higher level graduate schools but for some reason they do not. I do not know the reason for this, but their credability and method of preparing undergrads for grad school is clearly not cutting edge if they, themselves, aren't trying to improve their own establishment in certain areas.</p>
<p>The Madden Bus:</p>
<p>Devoting your resources to twenty different things isn't necessarily better than focusing on one thing and giving it all you've got. If you're going to judge how good a university is by how many graduate schools or facilities it has, then Stanford and, heck, even the University of British Columbia would be "better" than Harvard. Stanford and UBC both have subatomic particle accelerators, of which there are only a few in the world.</p>
<p>Besides, in the majority of cases, you don't need to have a graduate school on site to get a good undergraduate education. Most undergraduate science students, for example, are not at that level where they need the resources of a graduate lab. As well, even if there are graduate schools on site, the faculty at the schools are focused on graduate students, so you'll most likely not have much contact with them, anyway.</p>
<p>
[quote]
:I don't even know what grad schools they have besides engineering."
[/quote]
Princeton may not have a law school or a medical school, but your statement makes it seem as if only undergraduate degrees are awarded to students (save for the engineering students). Princeton has graduate departments granting PhDs in fields ranging from anthropology to comparative literature to molecular biology and even public affairs.</p>
<p>Besides, as someone above pointed out the case with Harvard, if you got into Princeton, I bet you'd go despite calling it "gay."</p>
<p>What the heck? Why all this jumping down each other's throats? Harvard is a fine school, and so is Princeton. If you go to Harvard, you're probably not going to regret it. If you go to Princeton, same. Why is it so dearly important why others would prefer one school over the other?</p>
<p>I haven't seen any "Stanford of the East" t-shirts nor do I think I will. We know we're as good, Byerly, and we don't need to convince ourselves of that fact. Our abilities will prove that alone. </p>
<p>"So tearing down Harvard, presumably, is seen as a means of self-validation after the Yale disappointment."</p>
<p>Well considering I didn't apply to Harvard, that makes little sense. I'm going to the most dynamic institution in the country. Hard to beat that. "The Stanford brand" as you say, Byerly, is one of the strongest today, if not the strongest. </p>
<p>All of you Harvardians can remain self-satisfied that you attend the so-called #1 institution in the country, but the differences in education are there and frankly, you don't know anything better.</p>
<p>"Surely Princeton has the resources to have higher level graduate schools but for some reason they do not."
THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT THEY DO NOT! TO FOCUS ON UNDERGRADUATES!</p>
<p>"Rivalries: Put Up or Shut Up</p>
<p>By Steven Friedman</p>
<p>Ignorance, I sometimes think, really can be bliss. Being completely ignorant about a subject gives you that beautifully naive outsider's perspective that someone wrapped up in and knowledgeable about a subject can't have.</p>
<p>I'm so ignorant about UC Berkeley -- no, I don't go here -- that I actually walked into the Bancroft Library the other day wearing a T-shirt that proclaimed "STANFORD UNIVERSITY."</p>
<p>At first I thought I was paranoid for thinking that everyone in the library was giving me evil looks. But the perfect truth of Woody Allen's catchphrase, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not after me," quickly proved itself true, as person after person pointed out to me that Stanford is UC Berkeley's mortal enemy.</p>
<p>This immediately reminded me of my university. Even before my freshman year at the University of Pennsylvania, I was continuously told that Penn's mortal enemy -- complete with our own version of the Big Game every year -- was another Ivy League competitor: Princeton University. So one day I e-mailed a Princeton friend to hear his take on it.</p>
<p>He laughed in his response. Even if it was over e-mail, I could still hear it. No one at Princeton knew we were "rivals" in any way, other than just playing a dinky football game against each other once a year. I realized what was up and quickly created an imaginary dialogue between our two universities and two other schools in the Ivy League: Harvard and Yale.</p>
<p>Penn, I've noticed, proudly declares to the world, "Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Penn are the four greatest universities in the world. So our only competitors are Harvard, Yale and Princeton." Princeton then replies, "What are you talking about, Penn? The three greatest universities are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. So our only competitors are Harvard and Yale." Yale then says, "What are you talking about, Princeton? The two greatest universities are Harvard and Yale, so Harvard is our only competitor." Harvard then says, "Ha! What are you talking about, Yale? We don't have any competitors..."</p>
<p>I witnessed this myself at the Penn-Princeton game, when Penn students chanted, "Princeton, you suck!" and the Princetonians just quietly stood there, as if to say, "Whatever you say, Penn." Later, I saw a Yalie wearing a shirt that read "Harvard sucks and Princeton doesn't matter."</p>
<p>And Princeton is right. They're a better school than Penn precisely because they have the quiet and honest confidence to be able to stand there and listen to us. And Harvard is better than Yale because they have enough quiet and honest confidence that they don't need to wear "Yale sucks" T-shirts. Because they believe it, they don't have to shout it.</p>
<p>The same seems to apply to UC Berkeley. Stanford, sincerely confident in its stature, doesn't need to scream its hatred for Berkeley from rooftops. Still, this doesn't keep them from doing the same to Harvard, by wearing "Harvard -- the Stanford of the East" T-shirts. We don't see any of these T-shirts in reverse in Cambridge, though.</p>
<p>The way to greatness, as Harvard has recognized, is not to tell competitors how much better you are than them. Instead, you must quietly and confidently work at being best. Harvard has internalized Margaret Thatcher's summary of such competition: "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to say you are, you aren't."</p>
<p>Berkeley will truly triumph over Stanford the day when its undergrads stop saying how powerful they are, and instead, start believing it."</p>