If you had it to do over again.....

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>My plebe wannabe is getting a lot of pressure from family members opposing her plans (hopes) to attend the Academy and have a career as a Navy shipdriver. We have also been reading about the current USNA issues and past scandals. To top it off, tonight we had a call from a current mid parent about how negative the upperclassmen are about being at USNA (even before the current brouhaha). I should state clearly that she is still only considering anything other than USNA as a backup plan.</p>

<p>Until the past week or so, I have uniformly supported d's decision that USNA is the best way to prepare for a career as an officer. It provides the opportunity for as fine a college education as any NROTC school, but also offers the rigors of the 4 class system, and opportunities for ongoing YP squadron and offshore sail training that you can't get anywhere else. </p>

<p>However, I am really concerned about the "wet nursing" aspect of some of these recent changes. Specifically, by reducing ECs, there are fewer mid leadership positions. By having very little discretionary time, the current mids have fewer life choices to make, and fewer "opportunities" to fail. I am also concerned at hearing tales of people who hated every minute of their time there. Plebe year, I understand. All four years, no.</p>

<p>OK, so here's my question for all of you current mids and alumni. If you had it to do all over again, knowing what you know now, would you still choose USNA? If so, why? If not, why not? </p>

<p>If anyone besides a mid or alumnus/alumna wishes to comment, please give a hint as to your connection (i.e., parent of mid, interested bystander, went to USNA 1 year, etc.)</p>

2

<p>I am a mom of a current plebe. When my son expressed an interest in the academy, I fully supported him too, but I made certain to point out the benefits as well as many of the difficulties of being at the academy and the military lifestyle. One of the biggies is supporting decisions from above with which you don't agree or understand. He said he could do it, and so far he is (albeit only 1 week into the ac year). I haven't heard any whining from him.</p>

<p>Do all over again? I know he would, and I would still encourage him to do so. I heard him at PPW talking to a younger friend from HS and encouraging him to pursue an appointment.</p>

3

<p>I would absolutely do it again, and especially as a female. </p>

<p>First, I got an outstanding education. Classes taught by real professors (not TAs). A technical education that has served me well in and out of the Navy. A school where everyone goes to class (no skipping/cutting), treats the professor with respect, and where everyone graduates in 4 years.</p>

<p>Second, in four years, I learned how to lead, the importance of comaraderie, and how it feels to be led. I also learned that there are things a lot more important in life than yourself, such as your country.</p>

<p>Third, I learned to focus and prioritize. It may sound trite or simple, but those two traits have helped me more in life than almost anything.</p>

<p>Fourth, I shared something with people (other USNA grads, my classmates, my company-mates, and my roommates) that is very special and bonds us in a way that few people in life are brought together.</p>

<p>Fifth, my USNA experience has defined me as a person even 20+ years after graduation and a major career change. The fact that I graduated from USNA brings instant respect from others -- instant. It sets me apart. It tells people, including future employers, that I can lead, manage and work in a team. That I went through something really, really hard and stuck with it. That's invaluable.</p>

<p>That's my story. I'd do it again in an instant. </p>

<p>The crap that's going on at USNA right now is, quite frankly, just part of life and especially part of life in the military. I realize that, to the mids (and to some parents and even alums), these changes seem huge, overwhelming, oppressive, etc. However, this too shall pass. The institution that is USNA will survive and thrive. It always has.</p>

4

<p>85,</p>

<p>Dead on target. I couldn't have said it better.</p>

5

<p>USNA is not for everybody. Unfortunately, some students who attend the Naval Academy are not there because of a deep seated desire or motivation; they are there because of pressure from parents, relatives, teachers, and/or coaches. There are a few students who slip through the cracks and receive appointments to service academies even though they probably shouldn't be there. The admissions process isn't perfect and intangibles such as character and motivation are difficult to measure.</p>

<p>Your daughter has to make her own decision. Remember that we have an all volunteer military including midshipmen at the Naval Academy. Prior to the start of this academic year, only the Class of 2008 had an obligation to the Navy. Everybody else had the option of resigning from the academy; however, I haven't heard anything about a mass exodus from the academy.</p>

<p>If the situation at the academy is so terrible, in the opinion of some midshipmen, why haven't they resigned?</p>

<p>Sex scandals, assaults, alcohol abuse, underage drinking, court martials...</p>

<p>Only a fool would not expect the new Superintendent to make changes and clamp down on the midshipmen. The alumni have been ranting about VADM Rempt for the past couple of years; they certainly didn't expect mor of the same from VADM Fowler.</p>

<p>If your daughter is interested in making the Navy a career, she should attend USNA. If your daughter is interested in order, discipline, and character development, she should attend USNA. Otherwise, she should consider the Navy ROTC program.</p>

6

<p>To be frank, I thought it was going to be harder than it is right now all along.</p>

<p>Last year was very difficult, but things were easier than I anticipated. As a plebe, you really can't have fun, but I made my own fun. It was the best year of my life.</p>

<p>So even with all the changes, I really can't complain. After all, I'm sure I'd do it again because entering entering plebes are full of anticipation as it is. We really don't know what life is like before we get here, so we just assume the worst. Also, this place trains leaders better than anywhere else. Knowing this fact would continue to sway me in this direction.</p>

7

<p>Alumni, and DAMNED proud of it.</p>

<p>First off, I'm curious to know what these family members are giving as reasons for opposing your DD's plans. VERY curious. :mad:</p>

<p>Now, to answer your question, let me begin with an old refrain: "USNA is the worst place in the world to be AT, but the best place in the world to be FROM." It was true 20 years ago when I was going through, and I highly doubt that has changed at all.</p>

<p>Yes, Mids gripe. A lot. We did, too. Absolutely nothing new in that. However, you don't see a mass stampede for the gates, do you?</p>

<p>Look at the numbers: Every year, even during time of an "unpopular" war, tens of thousands apply for just over 1,000 slots. If it weren't worth it, the word would be out and the numbers way down. They aren't at USNA, and they certainly aren't at any of the other Service Academies. Sure, the numbers fluctuate, and they are down from the immediate aftermath of 9/11, but they keep coming, boy!</p>

<p>I know that I have voiced some desire to have attended a "regular" college, but those sentiments have only come during moments of weakness when I lost sight of what I accomplished and what it means (yes, it happens to all of us). But the reality is that the only thing I would change about my experience is that I would study harder, take more advantage of the opportunities offered, and perhaps chose USMC as a Service Selection. </p>

<p>I wear my ring every day. My license plate is a USNA plate. I have the window stickers on both my vehicles. It's listed first under "Academics" on my resume. My Dad wears more USNA stuff than even I do. My soon-to-be FIL (a Navy enlisted vet who HATED the time he served) now struts around telling all his (decidedly under-achieving) family members that I'm an Annapolis grad. I am a part of the greatest rivalry in college history. I know that if I got through USNA, with all it's weaknesses, I can get through anything. I am part of the largest extended family on earth.</p>

<p>No, I don't regret it one bit, and I'd do it all over again if I could. Hell, I WISH I could!</p>

<p>Tell your daughter to tell your family members to get a clue (board code prevents me from typing what she really should tell them) and leave her alone. Don't be put off by the carping you hear here about the recent changes, either. Many Alumni are finding themselves scratching their heads saying, "What? When did these things change? Sounds to me like exactly what we had!", and we all turned out just fine, thank you very much.</p>

<p>Tell your daughter to go for it. She'll be glad she did. :)</p>

<p>ETA: Oh, and whatever you do, don't take what you hear in the media about USNA at face value. The Baltimore Sun (BS) and Washington (com)Post are notoriously anti-military and anti-USNA. They won't miss a beat to twist ANY story so it looks bad for the Academy. BTDT. It's a tradition that goes back way before even my time, and continues unabated. Listen to those who have been there and who are there, and who actually have a clue as to what they are talking about rather than just an agenda to push. </p>

<p>That should answer a certain IM I received. Beware, everyone. The media is here trolling for more dirt on our beloved Annapolis. :mad:</p>

8

<p>Thanks to all who have answered so far. I might have been in either the first or second class of women at USNA, but didn't realize the rules had changed until it was too late to apply. Being young and foolish, I didn't even think about applying for the next year. Still, I have always had a fondness for the Yard.</p>

<p>That being said, I only want dd to do this for herself. Before NASS, she had curiosity about USNA. She loved every minute of NASS (best was either conning a YP or mini-Sea Trials). Now she has drive and passion to be there. That translates into at least one personal workout each day (i.e. getting herself out of bed at 5:45AM to do PT from the USNA workout book plus biking, running, or swimming), plus somehow trying to improve academic performance that was already outstanding (4.0, all honors/AP, and 93 is min for an A), plus reading USNI Proceedings from cover to cover.</p>

<p>"First off, I'm curious to know what these family members are giving as reasons for opposing your DD's plans. VERY curious."</p>

<p>To answer you, Z, a couple of close family members who don't support the current war don't want her to give military service. It's unfortunate, but dd is already tuning them out, because she knows what she wants.</p>

<p>I am trying to be as balanced in my approach as possible, making sure that she has as much info about the challenges and the rewards of attending USNA and the naval service itself. Hence my earlier post. Thanks again to all of you. Knowing both the best and the worst of the place can only help dd and others make the right decision (assuming they have a choice).</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
To answer you, Z, a couple of close family members who don't support the current war don't want her to give military service. It's unfortunate, but dd is already tuning them out, because she knows what she wants.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The family members are short-sighted boobs and your daughter is smarter than all of them combined. Congratulations to you, and good luck to her. :)</p>

10

<p>As a parent, the best advice is to allow your daughter every opportunity to "gather the data" so that she can make the best possible decision for herself.... hopefully without undue pressure from others.</p>

<p>To do that:
-visit the yard... often. At different times of year. Make one of those visits is in the fall, when everyone is upbeat. Visit during the Dark Ages.... when everything seems gloom and doom....and then one again in the Spring, when everyone seems to brighten up again and breathe in a huge sigh of relief.<br>
-if offered a candidates visit weekend, go. Ask lots of questions. Listen.
-if on the yard, stop Mids and ask them questions. Get info first hand.</p>

<p>Once that is done, repeat with all of the "second choice" schools on your list. Compare and contrast.</p>

<p>Surprisingly, the answer will come.</p>

<p>"getting in" is just the first step. Staying in is another thing.
One or two will leave right on I-Day.
Anywhere from 20-50 will follow over plebe summer.
Spinkle in a handful more as each sememster advances.
The biggest loss seems to come before 2nd class year, when the 2 for 7 signing comes around. I do not have figures to share, but did hear there is some attrition at that point.
Most will continue on and, with lots of hard work, will get to toss their covers into the air....and received their well-earned comission.
The journey is individual for each, and a collective accomplishment for all.</p>

<p>having said that, it remains my firm belief that unless your young adult really wants this- for themselves and not anyone else- it won't work. And if they do, then the best thing you can do is shut out the naysayers..... and full steam ahead. Support with every ounce of your heart. </p>

<p>I would not go so far as suggesting family members are short-sighted boobs (sorry Z).... but most likely just very concerned with their relatives well-being, especially in light of what is going on in the world around us. We went through something similiar, although it was this "mom" who needed the convincing. I used those opportunities to challenge his decision, if only to make sure he was as determined and motivated as he claimed to be. He was, and in the process he won me over. And now this parent bleeds Blue and Gold.</p>

<p>So challenge and support, but most importantly, let her make the final decision.....on that there can be no compromise.</p>

<p>Best of luck!
Go Navy!
(not sure the Beat Army's are allowed anymore.... so "Go Army" as well! Those kay-dets need some love and support too !!!! :) )</p>

<p>ps... pastrami for lunch yesterday on the yard.... life is lookin up! :)</p>

11

<p>USNA1985 said it well. I found that once I got to Annapolis via NAPS that it was harder for me to leave than to stay. No...not every day is fun, some are challenging, especially for me Plebe year. I kept a journal of Plebe year and yet while I didn't enjoy every day, there were indeed moments to celebrate. The friends I had at the Academy are still friends. You may not see a shipmate for 10, 15 or 20 years but because you went through challenging times together there is a strong, undeniable bond. </p>

<p>The four years at Annapolis flies by...thought tough to fathom Plebe or even youngster year. While at Annapolis, my last two years were pretty grand but not without their own challenges. Even the time after Annapolis, there are many and varied opportunities. I've done things through the service that are pretty damn amazin', that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to accomplish if I went to State U. ROTC is also a good option but the camaraderie of the service acadmey is pretty strong due to the bond of accomplishing and overcoming challenges together.</p>

<p>All the best with the decision. I would say it is her's to make as she will be living it. If they don't want her to go, tell them to pony up the money for the education and she can go to State U...</p>

<p>Pastrami...perhaps there's a bit more pressue to put out a better menu.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I would not go so far as suggesting family members are short-sighted boobs (sorry Z).... but most likely just very concerned with their relatives well-being, especially in light of what is going on in the world around us.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but telling someone to give up the opportunity to attend a Service Academy simply because YOU disagree with the current political situation is short-sighted in the extreme. </p>

<p>If they were arguing because the education was lousy, or because the candidate wanted to be a doctor first and an officer second, or if because they knew the candidate wasn't going to do well in a military environment, I'd accept and respect that. However, telling someone else what to do with THEIR life because of what YOUR political views are, especially when the thing being debated is attendance at one of the finest institutions in the world, is both selfish and mind-bendingly stupid.</p>

<p>All that said, what you suggested (ensuring the candidate has all the data to make an informed decision) is, of course, spot-on. If she weighs the pros and cons and decides she would be better suited going to Podunk U, then good for her and may God bless her. She'll get no grief from me or anyone else.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The friends I had at the Academy are still friends. You may not see a shipmate for 10, 15 or 20 years but because you went through challenging times together there is a strong, undeniable bond.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amen.</p>

<p>That bond, incidentally, extends to others who went there in different years, or even decades, than you did. :)</p>

13

<p>I think there are many significant "satisfaction" measures that indicate or at least suggest that the vast majority of USNA alumni value their experience to an exceptional degree ... alumni giving participation (hi for a public institution), loads of old fart alumni still wearing their rings, several of them hanging around this forum intended essentially for 15-17 year olds :confused: and their confused parents, virtually all of whom I know regardless if they were 20 year tenures or 5-and-dive types that are proud to tell anyone, everyone they are USNA graduates, and virtually none that I've ever known that seem disappointed or embarassed to have taken the path he/she did.</p>

<p>Now all of that is anecdotal, observation of one. Not necessarily insignificant observations, but only what they are and no more.</p>

<p>So have your child do the homework, knowing it will NOT inform about how one will react when being screamed at, a phenomenon that clearly leads to a few bailing out quickly. The far greater issue is really trying to get a sense of direction about military service as a possible career, and I'm of the belief that EVERY appointment should be given to those who have both the potential and inclination that career service is an attractive, likely possibility. That IS the objective of the USNA to ID and prepare career officers. (Anything less is the Academy's failure, but that's for a different thread.)</p>

<p>If your child is focused, strong-minded, and dedicated to the notion of a career of service through the USN or USMC, then it's a great option. My plebe has been strangely buoyed by his cousins who think he's nuts and politically offthewall. Mine is merely reaffirmed listening to them. </p>

<p>From a very pragmatic, practical perspective, one should stand back and look at the incredible opportunities available though this avenue. I'm in awe ...</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
I'm sorry, but telling someone to give up the opportunity to attend a Service Academy simply because YOU disagree with the current political situation is short-sighted in the extreme.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>change the "YOU" to "one's own" and I take no issue.....(I may be misreading this perhaps....) ....but to clarify where I am coming from just in case.........</p>

<p>What I was trying to say was not necessarily concerned about "one's" political view on the war- one way or another (although, clearly, that could be one root cause of concern....).... but rather more focused on the concern "one" would have for "anyone they cared about" who is considering venturing into harms way.... of any kind (you can include in that the arena of war, but the catagories are limitless......)</p>

<p>I get concerned everytime my kid's car pulls out the driveway. That does not mean I am against her driving. It is not based on any "political view." It comes from the heart and concern for the wellbeing of someone I care about. And, yes.... well past time to "let go" (and I have.... but I worry nevertheless.... especially in the wee hours of the morning).....</p>

<p>so putting it back into the context of what I posted, it could be that the family members voicing "concern" is more about putting someone they care about "in harms way" and wishing they might chose another path that they "perceive" as "safer" .... to me, not political at all..... a little "over protective" perhaps.... </p>

<p>Hope that makes sense.</p>

15

<p>Using that mindset, one could urge their kids never to leave the house. Ever. Stay next to Mom and Dad well into your 60's. Doesn't make sense, does it?</p>

<p>Here we have a bright youngster looking at serving her country, and doing so by attending one of the finest schools you'll find anywhere, and all these people can think about is, "I don't like the war, so you should throw away all the benefits of attending USNA." I'm not making leaps of logic, either. 2012Mom specifically said that THAT is the reason for their opposition. I'm sorry, but my assessment of them stands.</p>

<p>Now, I am a parent, too, and I fully understand what a parent feels when their kid is so much as out of their sight, let alone joining the military, but that doesn't give me or any other parent the right to hold back a child from achieving something great because of OUR parental fears.</p>

<p>My mother used to say that she would begin worrying about me the day two guys in uniforms showed up to her door unannounced. Until then, she'd pray for my safety, be proud of my service and accomplishments, and hope I was doing what made me happy. THAT is how a parent supports their kid when the kid is doing an honorable but dangerous profession.</p>

<p>It would seem that 2012's daughter has her head screwed on straight and is weighing the pros and cons as they relate to HER, not her parents or her family. Her mom should be (and I'm sure is) very proud. Heck! I am, and I haven't even MET her! She's THINKING, not FEELING (as her family members apparently are). That alone is something to commend.</p>

<p>2012, you tell your daughter that the only way she can go wrong in attending USNA is to go without really wanting to, or to go without knowing exactly what it's all about. It looks like she will be a victim of neither circumstance. She'll do good.</p>

<p>At any rate, I am certain I speak for the other Alumni here when I say that we will be standing by to answer any question she (or you) may have and which we can answer. Sure, some of our stories may be out of date, and our memories fuzzy, and our attitudes forged in a different time, but we all bleed Blue and Gold, and we'll always answer with the intent of giving the best advice we can. It won't always be pretty, but it'll be the Truth as we see it.</p>

16

<p>I'd do it again in a second...</p>

<p>
[quote]
USNA is the worst place in the world to be AT, but the best place in the world to be FROM.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>-I heard this quote many times. Despite that, I can honestly say that I enjoyed my four years... minus the first one. More than buying into the Academy system and taking full advantage of the opportunities it afforded, especially plebe summer cadre and leadership in an ECA, I also grew to love Annapolis... not just the bars. Sometimes a great day was a warm Sunday during the spring, just walking through downtown, maybe grabbing a sandwich and eating it out on the dock. Overall Annapolis has a very classic feel to it, and being a History major I actually enjoying touring through some of the historic homes... Then there was football and lacrosse. Weekends in the fall and spring were always livened up by either of the two. If your at all a sports fan, you almost get to the point where you live for games like these. There were some real classics like all the Air Force games, ND in 2003 (02 as well), last years near win against BC, and then there was Army, nothing more needs to be added there. With Lacrosse, my first game was the double overtime nailbiter against Hopkins in '04, and after that I was hooked. I can honestly say that in 4 years, every single Lacrosse game was either a Navy win or a close loss that came down to the last possession against the best teams in the country. Being within a shot of sending the NCAA finals into overtime was a memory I probably wont soon forget either. </p>

<p>In talking about the Academy, everyone focuses on the Academics, leadership, and character building, which is all true. However, what really made my four years enjoyable was a great place filled with alot of amazing friends. I would never trade the experience and would do it again in a heartbeat.</p>

17

<p>Will restate what I said in the first place...</p>

<p>
[quote]
having said that, it remains my firm belief that unless your young adult really wants this- for themselves and not anyone else- it won't work. And if they do, then the best thing you can do is shut out the naysayers..... and full steam ahead. Support with every ounce of your heart.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>will let it rest there.</p>

18

<p>I wish someone would tell my mother all of this! haha ;)</p>

19

<p>I think it is going to have to come from you.</p>

<p>Give it time.
Let her see that you are exploring and keeping your options open- and, more importantly, considering all of them carefully- which you owe yourself.
Then listen to her concerns and address them- one by one.
She will come around.
Keep the faith.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Being within a shot of sending the NCAA finals into overtime was a memory I probably wont soon forget either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>nor will I.
The only thing I can say is that I never saw a winning team almost "sad" that that they had to beat such a worthy opponent to "win,"....</p>

<p>that, and I'm glad it rained that day so it could hide all the tears shed during the singing of Blue and Gold.</p>

<p>This year's hopkins game comes in a close second.
There is always 08!
Keeping the faith!</p>