<p>Lakemom–they can’t “put a disclaimer” because if students don’t apply for FA, then the school can’t know that they’re Pell grant recipients. Again, the point is, everyone who qualifies for the Merit money gets it, but if the student can otherwise have some of that covered by the Pell grant they qualify for, then the rest of that student’s grant comes from the merit scholarship, everyone gets the same amount, and because Federal money the student had qualified for is also used, there’s more money overall in the pot for the school to distribute. More in the pot means possibly more or larger merit awards for students at that school, which is good for all of them. I’m not understanding what part of that is an issue.</p>
<p>Even though I did not find filling out the FAFSA difficult, it seemed like a total waste of time. My DS got a NMF scholarship that covers almost all of the COA. By simply tapping his 529, he will be set each year and so we don’t need any aid. But in order to get that NMF scholarship, we have to fill out the FAFSA annually. Oh well, we will continue to do it to get the money.</p>
<p>By the way, both freshman and sophomore years he was offered an unsubsidized loan which he declined. I just hope his FAFSA never has to be verified since we are not taking any loans.</p>
<p>MomfromKC, most merit aid does come directly from the schools. There are some outside merit scholarships, but if a family is hunting for merit money, that’s most likely to come from the college itself. The handful of big-dollar merit scholarships administered by organizations not affiliated with a specific college are extremely competitive.</p>
<p>Hondu - As noted previously, we filed a FAFSA so my son could obtain a nice merit scholarship. Even though we had a 99,999 EFC and declined all loans that were offered, his freshman year we were selected for FAFSA verification! (Note: we were not selected for verification this year.)</p>
<p>My understanding is that a certain percentage of FAFSA forms must be verified to comply with federal rules. I’ve seen posts on CC where some people claim that the verification process is entirely random, while others have implied that while some files are randomly chosen, schools may skew the verfication process towards those families who are “heavy users” of financial aid. </p>
<p>I guess just need to know that you can be selected for verification, even if you do not avail yourself of any federal money.</p>
<p>Garland. I don’t understand what you don’t understand. If schools want to package their “Merit” money by bundling funds based on “need” money that is up to the school. But if Merit money is being offered it should be based on Merit or the school should say exactly what it is offering, money contingent on need. </p>
<p>If the “merit” money is based first on how much money the school thinks you can get from a Pell Grant then how is it merit money? It doesn’t even make sense.</p>
<p>If a school wanted to offer me merit money and wanted to know whether I would have qualified for FA, I could send the the face sheet of my tax return to show them I wouldn’t. That would take 30 seconds.</p>
<p>Quick information on Pell grants:
A Federal Pell Grant, unlike a loan, does not have to be repaid.
The maximum Pell grant for the 2011-12 award year (July 1, 2011, to June 30, 2012) is $5,550.
The amount depends on your financial need, costs to attend school, status as a full-time or part-time student, and plans to attend school for a full academic year or less.</p>
<p>When i say that if it’s merit, they all get the same amount, what i meant was that the same amount for the same scholarship. In other words–if you qualify for a 10,000K grant, you get it. However, if the student qualifies for Pell too, then the Pell and the scholarship money could add up to the 10K. Same amount. Actually, a lot of schools might give the whole 10 plus the Pell, but they can only do that if the entire amount doesn’t add up to more than the COA.</p>
<p>The point is that if a student qualifies for Pell, then it is dumb on the school’s part to leave that money on the table. What the school gives is based on merit, and what the gov gives is based on need. Two different pots of money for two different reasons. Merit is based on merit.</p>
<p>I know a lot about Pell, actually. I worked for 10 years in a support program at a college, helping students with their FA among other things. But thanks for the info.</p>
<p>Now that I’m thinking about this. I think the centralization of aid came about because in my day it was possbile to make a profit off of scholarships. As I said my nice scholarship didn’t pass through anybody but me. If I’d had a second nice scholarship on top of the occassional $500 my department tossed me in my last couple years - no they didn’t ask if I wanted it or needed it. It just showed up on my bill as a certain amount already paid by my department. Heck I could have been rolling in dough. Realizing this they put a stop to it and made amounts over cost taxable right around that time. And now we have this. So in some cases the college/univeristy is going to be responsible for making sure your merit aid doesn’t total more than your acceptable expenses.</p>
<p>I could send the the face sheet of my tax return to show them I wouldn’t. That would take 30 seconds.</p>
<p>That is about all they want, except that they want both yours and your child’s tax returns and to know if your child has had a drug conviction, plus to make sure you aren’t sitting on $100,000 in savings not based on last year’s income. If you are mostly filling in zeros It doesn’t take long at all. Like I said the only piece of information I had to hunt for (as in not in my filing cabinet or the checkbook in my purse) was my daughter’s driver’s license number. I can see where a lot of people would consider it an invasion of privacy. But I can’t see complaining about how much time it takes.</p>
<p>I have not read all the posts yet, but have to say this; when d applied in 08, our calculated EFC was in excess of tuition , and we did not submit a FAFSA. Sophomore year we wanted unsub stafford, and we submitted. Fall 2010 when son applied, she again applied for an unsub loan around April, so we figured what the heck; might as well send it for son as well. We giggled like children when with both kids applying, they each qualified for a little work study. Low and behold, son ends up getting a VERY helpful “award”. I have NO idea under what qualifications. We did not ask. We had already paid the school deposit. Don’t assume he will get it again, but we were happy campers!</p>
<p>I think our EFC was about $106,000 ( $53k each)</p>
<p>PS while not intuitive or complete, once your taxes are filled, the online FAFSA let’s you import some of the info.</p>
<p>I believe that a student who is receiving merit-based (as opposed to need-based) aid could still, hypothetically, make a profit. A National Merit Finalist could opt to take a guaranteed full ride package from a school that offers to cover tuition, room and board, and then throws in a little spending money to boot. The same student could also apply for some merit-only scholarships from their place of worship, parents’ employers, and so forth. Since the NM scholarship would cover all expenses payable directly to the school, these smaller scholarships would be payable directly to the student, and hence taxable. But they’d still be “profit”.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove, do you really think that happens very often? </p>
<p>And here is the opposite, I have a friend whose husband passed away and he left money in each kid’s name instead of the wife’s in accounts making them ineligible for FA. Nice huh, she doesn’t work and pays her son’s tuition (except for the real merit aid the school offered) herself. She is ill and has bills but probably not enough to change the numbers. I think that situation occurs much more often. </p>
<p>MomfromKC, my 30 second comment had to to with repeated comments from everyone that it only took 15 minutes. It really has to do with spending time to prove I won’t qualify. </p>
<p>If I thought I could qualify for FA, I would just fill out the forms. But I know we won’t and I resent having to show more than my tax form to prove it.</p>
<p>
Thank you for this ray of hope! A little work study would be just what the doctor ordered for the 2 years my kids will overlap. 
I don’t mind being full pay. But, I sure wish Son could get a job on campus.</p>
<p>Yes, work study is nice. D is using hers, and with a smaller unsub loan than the previous year. But the REAL surprise was son getting an unexpected “award”.</p>
<p>But the key is that you can’t know that you won’t qualify. You are only guessing because you don’t know what the university has hidden that only goes to female geology majors who fill out their FAFSA.</p>
<p>These unveristies beg money from their alumni all the time. And they are required to hand it out. So you just never know. If there is nobody with real need they will happily pass it to whoever is next in line. Or spread it around to several kids who don’t need it but hot dog my university loves me I’m going to recommend this place to my little brother/cousin/neighbor! If you want on the list, you fill out the forms. Then you can giggle like children.</p>
<p>DougBetsy, We are full pay for 2 kids but for public colleges. It will be 8 straight years with no overlap because of how their birthdays fell. May have gotten some aid if they had overlapped some but too late now! We have filled out the FAFSA every year so our kids could get unsubsidized Staffords . It has not been that big a deal to fill out the FAFSA and has been good in a way because now the taxes are easier to do because we’ve had to get all that info together already. My younger son was able to get an on campus job this year as a junior (as an undergraduate TA). I think there may be some on campus jobs available that are sometimes available even if you are full pay. Might be worth looking into as every little bit helps.</p>
<p>I guess MomfromKC, I will have to take that chance based on the likelihood of that even existing. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that tuition is like any other product, it can be discounted by the seller based on the margin they need to make a profit or break even. In the product world most things are marked up 50 %. I have no idea what tuition is but merit aid is meant to sweeten the pot. It is a marketing tool. Yes it is earned as a reward but that is just the parameter that has been placed on it.</p>
<p>And since some schools do not require you fill out FAFSA to get it, then the rules are made up by each institution. That means every school can do it anyway they want.</p>
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</p>
<p>A student receives enough merit aid from different sources to make more than COA? No, I don’t think it happens very often, either now or a few decades back. But unlike with need-based aid, it’s possible.</p>
<p>Slithey, it probably happens more than we think. I say that because I happen to know someone who made a profit of 5k and he banked some of it, and he gave some of it to his family! </p>
<p>Here is how: This student has a full ride for all four years at a private university (it covers full tuition, full room and board and the most expensive options available, and covers all text books). This full ride is not need based, btw. This student also applied for an institutional scholarship which required certain things (I know an essay was required). He won this scholarship and the amount was for $5,000. He was allowed to accept the full face value of it.</p>
<p>I am still wondering if we should check the box in the common app indicating that we will seek financial aid, knowing that we won’t qualify for need based aid. I think I’ve read all of this thread carefully, but perhaps I’ve missed something. This is my impression so far:</p>
<p>Pros for checking the box:
- Merit awards from some institutions require the FAFSA data. Can’t they ask for the FAFSA information even if the request for aid is not indicated on the application?</p>
<ol>
<li>Financial situation can change, and request for aid after the first year may be denied if it is not indicated on the application. This is useful information, something to consider.</li>
</ol>
<p>Con for checking the box:</p>
<ol>
<li>Lose the full pay admission advantage, documented in several surveys of admissions administrators. However can’t they tell from the FAFSA information that the applicant will be ineligible for aid? Or is the FAFSA information accessed long after the admission decisions are made?</li>
</ol>